How to calibrate Ventriloquist VT-12 speakers?

[tafguy]

Hi everyone,

I just received my Ventriloquist VT-12. To be able to fully enjoy how good this system is, I need your big help.

I know how to calibrate ,with the help of Wid, system in stereo mode.

But I need more detailed the best way to calibrate a surround sound system with a subwoofer.

I know a lot of you from other threads who said to have calibrated your Ventriloquist but I need to learn how, step by step, all the hints and tips you have found and hopefully we will make this thread to reference as a cookbook so everyone knows how to do it. And I will be one of these people who will validate these inputs myself by doing it.

Just to start somewhere, besides owning a RS SPL meter.

What kind of DVD test setup you recommend?
How to use SPL meter in surround sound?
What to do and not to do?
Subwoofer in surround mode?
Distance, height?

Before we go on with calibration feedbacks, my thanks to all of you in advance who will participate in this thread.

HSU Ventriloquist masters, experts, teach us, newbie like myself, how to calibrate with success!

[Retread]

Hi everyone,

But I need more detailed the best way to calibrate a surround sound system with a subwoofer.

What kind of DVD test setup you recommend?
How to use SPL meter in surround sound?
What to do and not to do?
Subwoofer in surround mode?
Distance, height?


I assume you have the SPL meter. My Hsu -3R came with a CD that had a lot of test tracks on it. Also, I bought a DVD called "Digital Video Essentials" that has pink noise for individual surround sound channels. I highly recommend it.

How one calibrates the sound level and delay for the individual surround sound channels is dependent on the kind of receiver you have. I have a Pioneer that does automatic calibration of both sound level and delay to the listening position. I have no experience in other kinds of receivers.

Once the basic sound level and delay properties of the surround are set, then the SPL meter and test track are used. Essentially, one puts the SPL meter in the listening location and runs the test tracks, recording SPLs for different frequencies. Then one adjusts the gain of the sub so that its SPL matches the SPL of the non-sub range. Some people (particularly for home theater) like to set the sub about 3 dB hotter than the highs, but I tuned my system for maximum flatness. Adjusting the sub is really that simple.

HOWEVER: room effects are likely to cause severe variations in SPL versus frequency over the sub's range. Moving the sub around in the room to minimize these effects is likely to be necessary. It may even be necessary to put a parametric equalizer in the path of the subwoofer to even it out. I had a 30 dB variation across the 25-100 Hz range before putting in an equalizer. People can talk all they want about the flatness of the response of the basic speaker, but those responses are measured under ideal conditions and have no relevance in a real room. It's a revelation to run third-octave warble tones (on the Hsu disk) across the sub range and watch what happens on the SPL meter.

[tafguy]

Thanks, Retread.

Yes, I have a RS digital SPL meter.
I do have an old Pioneer receiver which has 5.1 analog inputs so I may use for SACD/DVD-A outputs from a universal DVD player.

This is giving me a lot of headache about software titles:

Have you done your research before buying the Video Essentials DVD.

After doing some research, I come up with 4 software titles which will allow listeners even novice to achieve a high level of performance from audio and video equipment.

1. The Avia Guide to Home Theater
2. Sound & Vision's Home Theater Tune-Up Disc
3. The Video Essentials DVD (which is the one you have)
4. The Delos ‘Surround Spectacular’ CD

While the Delos ‘Surround Spectacular’ CD seems to be designed Dolby Pro-logic systems, it looks to have a lot of detailed instruction and calibration tones that could also used for two-channel system.

http://www.delosmus.com/cgi/cart/item/de31/de3179.html?ID=218901099274687

I feel confortable with the Delos Surround Spectacular's CD but for the other three instructional DVD titles, I'm not sure which one to buy. While I'm more concerned with calibrating audio for surround system rather than adjusting TV for brightness, contrast, tint, color saturation, my choice will probably the DVD that has detailed and foolproof on audio calibration. But the DVD must not be too much out of date with today's fast changing technology like plasma, widescreen, SACD, DVD-A .

Indeed, it sounds like déjà vu that setting up a home theater is neither easy nor fun. And if you do it alone, it could be very long.

But with your great help, thanks Retread to be kind to start first, I keep your instructions in mind since I now have something to start with.

[Retread]

Have you done your research before buying the Video Essentials DVD.

I was setting up a home theater, so was most interested in the video. However, once I had the Digital Video Essentials, I observed that it has a lot of audio setup materials and used them. It helps to have the DVD player connected to a TV so one can see what speaker is supposed to be playing while hearing the sound.

[tafguy]

I was setting up a home theater, so was most interested in the video. However, once I had the Digital Video Essentials, I observed that it has a lot of audio setup materials and used them. It helps to have the DVD player connected to a TV so one can see what speaker is supposed to be playing while hearing the sound.Retread, after more research in depth, I finally reach the conclusion what I needed out of the software title choices I listed in my last reply.

What makes me choose Digital Video Essentials DVD over the others specially the Avia DVD is based on the following factors that came out from professional reviews which compared the difference between the Avia DVD and the digital DVD essential:

Avia DVD review:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_2/aviadvd.html (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_2/aviadvd.html)

Digital Video Essential Review:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=7502 (http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=7502)

1. Cost
2. Up to date, capable to allow me to calibrate SACD/DVD-A system
3. Enough for inexperienced listener
4. I may also be used for my WideScreen TV when I need.
5. High Definition Video

Anyone is welcome to give their feedback if you happen to own one of these titles. But like one of the reviews says, it is also great to have both of them.

Let's start from here from now then. What I need now is to find a local store that carries the Digital Video Essential.

[Retread]

What I need now is to find a local store that carries the Digital Video Essential.

I bought mine over the Internet from Amazon.

[tafguy]

I bought mine over the Internet from Amazon.Thanks! I'll give a try first, tomorrow, in local stores since I will be able to pick it right away. Last resort, of course, will be online.

Just not to put this thread to sleep because the DVD setup software is one thing, but how about Ventriloquist's location, position, height that you guys have found best during your calibration.

I remember reading one article mentioning that you can also send your room dimension and layout, HSU will get back to you on the position they think will be best to setup the Ventriloquist. Did you guys do that?

Again if anyone want to share your experience on calibrating the Ventriloquist using the Digital Video Essential, you're welcome to post your experience in this thread.

[tdekany]

.I'll give a try first, tomorrow, in local stores since I will be able to pick it right away.

Call the company and see if it is sold where you live.

[Retread]

Just not to put this thread to sleep because the DVD setup software is one thing, but how about Ventriloquist's location, position, height that you guys have found best during your calibration.

The experts on this site have spoken about this in many threads. If I remember correctly, they suggest the front speakers be at head-level somewhat away from the wall and that the rears be somewhat elevated. NONE close to the floor: multipath interference. All set to "small."

However, we don't all have the latitude to locate speakers optimally. In my case, I have all speakers hanging from beams below my 10' ceiling, angled down and in toward the listening area. Sounds fine. I posted pictures in one of my threads.

[Byron]

Yeah, i purchased the Digital Video Essential few months ago and i'm using it to calibrate my system: so far so good; i mean, i have not fully ultulized yet. Hi everyone,

I just received my Ventriloquist VT-12. To be able to fully enjoy how good this system is, I need your big help.

I know how to calibrate ,with the help of Wid, system in stereo mode.

But I need more detailed the best way to calibrate a surround sound system with a subwoofer.

I know a lot of you from other threads who said to have calibrated your Ventriloquist but I need to learn how, step by step, all the hints and tips you have found and hopefully we will make this thread to reference as a cookbook so everyone knows how to do it. And I will be one of these people who will validate these inputs myself by doing it.

Just to start somewhere, besides owning a RS SPL meter.

What kind of DVD test setup you recommend?
How to use SPL meter in surround sound?
What to do and not to do?
Subwoofer in surround mode?
Distance, height?

Before we go on with calibration feedbacks, my thanks to all of you in advance who will participate in this thread.

HSU Ventriloquist masters, experts, teach us, newbie like myself, how to calibrate with success!

[tafguy]

Call the company and see if it is sold where you live.
Just bought it from local music store. It was pretty hard to find and it was located in Special Interest section. http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


The back cover of the DVD shows Copyright year when the DVD is released is 2003. So, it is pretty up to date for today's audio setup.

[tafguy]

The experts on this site have spoken about this in many threads. If I remember correctly, they suggest the front speakers be at head-level somewhat away from the wall and that the rears be somewhat elevated. NONE close to the floor: multipath interference. All set to "small."

However, we don't all have the latitude to locate speakers optimally. In my case, I have all speakers hanging from beams below my 10' ceiling, angled down and in toward the listening area. Sounds fine. I posted pictures in one of my threads.Thanks, I will give a look onto these threads.

You're right!. This thread deals primarily on calibration of the Ventriloquist sound system. And the know how and experience from Ventriloquist owners with their useful hints and tips will give me a better idea to do it correctly.

But now that I have the Digital Video Essential (DVE), I will use it to calibrate the Ventriloquist and see how good and beneficial those instructions they talked so much about. Since some people seem to use DVE already, I'm pretty sure that it is a good investment for home theater.

[tafguy]

Folks,

I'm back again!

I haven't time to start calibrating the Ventriloquist system.

Placement and hookup has given me headache but I finally manage to find spots to place them.

I will start calibration using the RS SPL meter and the Digital Video Essential DVD once these speakers position is done and wiring the rear center channel. This is the most complicated part due to how to hide wires coming from surround left and rear speakers besides mounting the rear center channel to ceiling.

I went out to buy a pair of Atlantic satellite speakers stands from Walmart ($20 US), and a pair of SoundGear SATP ($30 US) as recommended in manual.
The SoundGear is needed because I need to mount one speaker to the ceiling.

Some pictures that I took during hook-up the front speakers.

Note: Just don't look the floor for messy wires which have not been hidden yet.

[wid]

Tafguy,

Man that is a lot of messy wire.........Just kidding :). Looks like everything is coming along quite well.

[Dudley]

I have seen the wal-mart stands for $30 - how did you get them for $20? Are they pretty stable? I might be interested in getting some, especially for $20.

[tafguy]

I have seen the wal-mart stands for $30 - how did you get them for $20? Are they pretty stable? I might be interested in getting some, especially for $20.I bought these from Wal-Mart Canada store at $30 Cad, so I roughly converted it to US exchange rate, I think I was generous 1.5 instead of 1.25 something making it off around 3 dollars. But the exchange rate should not affect the price set in the states. It should be less than $30 US, probably in the $23.5 if you use current exchange rate. Of course, the price is before local tax.

There seems to be only one model from Atlantic Model No: SPSCUR47. The store did not carry other colour. I wanted it black but after some thoughts I think titanium also looks great. And it turns out that I liked that color once the speakers are on the stands.

It is pretty stable. If I hold the stand including the satellite, you can feel its weight from the base. Just for the satellite, it will do the job.

It can hold up to 2 lbs with minimum height/maximum height as marked in the box correspondingly 27"/48".

I used the maximum height to match the front center channel height so I will get better imaging. But usually, they recommend at ear level.

I just browsing and found the same model you probably want to check it out:

http://www.sjgreatdeals.com/atlspscur47.html

[tafguy]

Tafguy,

Man that is a lot of messy wire.........Just kidding http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif. Looks like everything is coming along quite well.
It is really a mess. But I still post the pictures any how.

This is still a sand box. I have to experiment speakers placement before to hide them.

In fact, I have two sets of speaker wires going to each of the B&W 601DMS3 because of biwiring. Add to this another set for the Ventriloquist L/R satellite speaker. I still have to find a nice way to hide these wires.

Not quite, Wid, the center from the ceiling will be tough to mount. The right surround will be nailed to the wall but the left one, I will have to use the other Sound Gear SATP bracket.

I'll come back with more pictures once they get all mounted. I haven't experienced the sound with the rear center channel mounted. But I can't wait to bridge the 2 rear surrounds to it and test it out.

[wid]

Tafguy,

I agree trying to get all the wires hidden is a pain in the butt.I ended up running mine under the base board.That seemed to be the only way I could get them hidden.I still have wires running up the walls,o'well it looks ok to me.I would have liked to run them through the wall but I wasn't up to doing what it would take to achieve it.

[tafguy]

Just finished mounting the 2 L/R surround speakers.

And now, I'm in the process of finding optimal placement for the rear center channel and I just wonder if this question has already been asked?

Does anyone know how far behind the 2 L/R surround speakers it can go?.
I planned to put it 1 to 2 feet behind the 2 surround speakers because it seems that placing the rear center channel this way, far back in the room, where it will not be close to listeners which can be annoying having it right over your head.

Besides facing in line with the front center channel, some mount the rear channel center in line with the L/R surround speakers? Is this way the optimal one?

I can't wait to finish mounting the rear channel so I can start calibrating the whole system, so I can enjoy the Dolby Digital 5.1 with the rear center and may be in the future with Dolby Digital EX or DTS 5.1 ES. At least, it will help enhancing effects in the rear sound field in Dolby Digital 5.1.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[wid]

I don't see what having it a foot behind the the other surrounds would hurt.Should work fine.

[tafguy]

Folks, more pictures of Ventriloquist surround speakers and how I mount them using one of the SoundGear SATP bracket.

Rear center channel speaker will be similarly mounted as with the left surround speaker but to the ceiling instead.

For this type of mounting, you definitely need a stud finder to make the job easier.

[wid]

Man that sure is looking good!Makes me want to redo mine.

[tafguy]

I don't see what having it a foot behind the the other surrounds would hurt.Should work fine.Thanks, Wid!.

And this is probably the right way to do it. I just want to make sure before drilling holes to beam on the ceiling and start fishing cable blindly, that I won't have to do this twice.

And since my left and right surrounds are placed to the sides, from what I read it is best to put the back surround(s) to the rear of the listening position in 6.1-channel or 7.1-channel setup. For Ventriloquist system, this is the rear center channel.

I will probably go for 2 feets behind listener's position due to beam location to mount the rear center speaker.

By the way, does anyone know if HSU sells separately a rear channel speaker. I heard it is better to have 2 rear surrounds in 7.1-channel setup?

[wid]

Tafguy,

This has been asked before and Hsu doesn't sell the sats seperate.It would be a good idea to do so in my opinon.

[tafguy]

Tafguy,

This has been asked before and Hsu doesn't sell the sats separate.It would be a good idea to do so in my opinion.Thanks, Wid!.

Good idea, I think so!.

But let ask this to HSU or Sasha since they may take this in consideration already in their consumer's wish list.

Sasha, does HSU have any plan to sell any sat separately in near future?

What do you suggest to use the 7th speaker as the 2nd back surround in 7.1-channel setup mode?

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/sad2.gif


Tafguy

[tafguy]

Folks,

Finally, rear center channel speaker mounted.

Don't ask how long and how hard it was to do it?

Here some more pictures of the last missing speaker.

Big next job will be calibration, stay tuned!

I was really impressed of the rear channel used in Dolby Digital 5.1 channel.

I tested the rear channel center out, though I did have some rattle reported in an another thread on the rear channel speaker, but it works without glitch, the sound comes out GREAT!

Put out a custom DVD containing only Dolby Digital / DTS / THX trailers, I was able to see what I was missing of sound coming from rear speaker.

FANTASTIC!

http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage12/14.gif

Now, BIG job is waiting is CALIBRATION.

I can do it now, with all speakers located and mounted!

Until then, I'll enjoy some POPCORN and watch some movies with the sound of the rear center channel speaker.

N' Joy!

[tafguy]

My early impression with the Ventriloquist V-12 and VTF-2 MK2 on new setup without calibration:

It was a very pleasant and entertaining experience with all Ventriloquist speakers well in place, I was well rewarded, after hard work on the rear center channel, watching the Jumanji movie again confirmed that speaker's location is excellent, specially the 2 L/R surrounds are on the sides facing towards each other and the rear 2 feet behind the sweet spot.

I was impressed how the rear channel center helps the 2 L/R surrounds mounted on the sides.

Aggressive spectacular 5.1 channel Dolby Digital audio track from this title with a lot of bass power there brought up the feeling of the couch beeing shaked or beeing knocked out in scenes of Big Cat where lion's growl and attacks, in Stampede in which Rhino sideswiping the car. And to end, watch the scene which ends the game to see how incredible the sound works from around the room.

Outstanding!

Calibration is finally under work!.

Yes, it took me so long but system setup must go first before I dare to play with the subject of this thread.

[tafguy]

Sorry guys, I was pretty busy that I forgot unfinished threads I left. Now it is the time to go back and finish the second part which is audio calibration on HSU speakers/sub.

I don't want to go into details how you should set up your speakers (height/placement/alignment).

The audio calibration process assumes that you already have done this since hook-up/setup is another issue which involves personal flavour and sometimes has to do with room dimension/acoustics.

Not everyone has identical room/material configuration. It took me days to setup all of this. Once all of this is final, you can start doing audio calibration.

Bear in mind that this is how I setup my system, yours may be different but the process should be identical using RadioShack SPL meter and the AVIA DVD, I will welcome any feedback.

Note that receiver's built-in test tones could do the job. Personally, I prefer having the sound played from a DVD player and a professional DVD audio calibration has more test tone types designed to maximize enjoyment your HT audio system.

And the truth is there is no substitute for proper audio calibration of your HT. You need to do it to be able to watch movies as the director had envisioned them to be. Without calibration, you will not be able to taste the true power of HSU speakers/subwoofer.

Strangely when I thought it was a difficult thing to do, but with the right equipment Digital SPL meter and AVIA Guide to Home Theater DVD, which are very good investment, are only needed to achieve this.

It happens that I own both of them Digital Video Essential DVD but I only use the latter for video calibration and future 6.1/7.1 channel calibration AVIA audio calibration has more test tools that I needed though I only used only necessary test tone tracks. The advanced ones seem to be there for power users.

Probably when you haven't done it, it is always difficult specially when you don't have the right information.

1- Must have SPL meter (Analog / Digital (*))
2- Must have DVD Audio Calibration (Digital Video Essential / AVIA (*))
Here is one of the link to it: http://www.smarthome.com/9381.html

(*) Used in calibration process

Home electronics:
Pioneer VSX-509 Receiver DD/DTS
Pioneer 578a Universal DVD player (SACD/DVDa)
Ventriloquist V-12 and VTF-2 MK2


It took me less than 1 hour to do it or may be less for others.

I calibrated the 6 Ventriloquist speakers at 85db as suggested by AVIA but you could do it at 75db depending on your taste. I have to boost some channels db level through manual configuration on my receiver .

For this feature, you have to consult the receiver's user manual to see whether or not it allows you to do it because you will need to balance all the speakers to 85db. I did not check if my receiver allows to directly manipulate the LFE channel but my guess is few will have it.

I have an old one so today's receivers probably has more features than mine. Mine displays input signal instead of playback levels so I used -20 db as Reference Level which corresponds to 85 db in playback level.

All this is calibrated with the receiver master volume to -20db during all the tones played for setup front speakers and subwoofers.

I liked very much the subwoofer setup because it allows you to balance the SPL reading on both each Ventriloquist speaker with the subwoofer so that once calibrated, each speaker has the same SPL reading with the subwoofer. Of course you have to manually adjust the VTF-2 MK2 sub volume to match with the reading on the other Ventriloquist speakers. For the test tones played here with the master receiver's volume still at -20db, I read on my SPL meter for all speakers and the sub at 75db like AVIA asked me to do for a SPL level above 70db. This also assumes subwoofers's cross-over has been properly set before calibration.

Also all the sweep tests are kind a cool, as sound become less audible, you can see the db level displayed on your TV, as AVIA says the more audible you can hear the good it is, I can even hear the sub going below 25hz since this goes down to 20hz.

For this test, it allows me to spot rattle materials like mirrors in the home theater room even some material which need to solidify on the wall in the room next to it. In an old house, you may detect pipe vibrations which is time to check it out???.

There is a must do after you have done calibration on speakers and subwoofers is the verification test. There was a test tone that all the speakers played simutaneously that you should not be able to detect where the sound is coming from. This is one of the most powerful immersive test tone.

If I remember this correctly, I did give a test run after that on intense battle scene of the extended version of LOTR ROTK in DTS mode.

Jaw dropping!.


I have to give credits to these guys who did AVIA test tones. This will reward your work on calibration.

That is it, folks!.

I thought I'm going to write a lot of how to calibrate the Ventriloquist but it turns out that is so simple. I did have some experience with calibrating stereo system but the HT system is a different matter. It requires specific professional made test tones that did not come when you buy the speakers/sub.

And believe me, with picture it is more easy to learn and the AVIA DVD proves to be an excellent tool and for people who are new to this stuff, don't worry, there are so much step-by-step instructions in this DVD to guide you better than myself. In the beginning I myself did not know much about audio calibration, so you have to give it sometimes. And with the help of a lot of nice people and more expert in this forum, you will be able to do it easily.

Hope this helps!

And please let me know how things work out!

tafguy

[tafguy]

Since I have changed the switch x-over to OUT to use the receiver's one.
I make sure that I recalibrate the sub with the AVIA Guide to HT setup DVD. I'm glad I did, I have to readjust the sub volume to balance with other speakers.

This time, I use more test tones than the first time.

Subwoofer setup:
I have to redo this part too. Balancing sub with each channel.

Testing/Re-evaluation part:

WB Pink 5 channels PAN is a MUST to check if the noise is steady when sound travels from speaker to speaker , its timbre should not change substantially. And the best part is the test tone is synchronized with the video showing which channel the sound is currently processed

150 HP ..., they remove the bass and keep only higher frequencies. If you can spot mismatched timbre front and surround which means bass management circuitry may be incorrectly adjusted or probably faulty.

Reference tones :

Wide Band 5 channels:
This is one of the best in the this category since these signals are unsynchronized and create a absorbed diffused impression. I felt like I was at Niagara Falls at that moment.

After that, I was rewarded with some system re-evaluation treats with some more of my findings.

Re-Evaluation:

Among numerous DVD you can verify, I found out some more to retest out the sub.

Lost in Space DVD in New Line Platinum Series:

Good clean bass in scenes "Initiate Hyperdriver" and "Velocity Escape",
In the first, I have to rewind several times to enjoy the nice bass
generated when the ship reappears and in the latter scene, you must pay attention to the planet's explosion with rocks falling around you. Man, this DVD has been there for 6 years, and the sound is NICE. This could be a nice demo disk too when it comes to show up your HT system.

Kill Bill DVDs: Volume 1&2

This movie is definitively not for youngsters due too much blood and ultra-violence contents. But I have to give credits to some of the audio in this material to test my system.

Not to allow young children to watch film with violence content is also one of my first precaution.

In Volume 1, I really do like this scene: first fight scene between the Bride and Vernita Green in a suburban home, glass shattering when the girl falled down, with the impact that bass generated on the floor, I almost felt that she was falled in front of me on the floor. Bullet firing with intensity could surprise you the first time you watched it. This part I have to rework the time delay on my surround speakers so the bullet proof is best heard way on the back.

"You must be GoGo" scene is also filled with sound intensity. Pay attention to the neck of the Bride, you can feel her bone almost cracking.

In Volume 2, scene of "B.... ... You don't have a future."
Fight sequences are beautifully synchronized with great sound effects and action is filled with so much energy. All of this done in a mobile home using swords. Cool! For a moment, I thought I was inside that mobile home.

Happy calibrating!

tafguy