Loving my Dual VTF-3 MK3's

[nbtstatic]

Hi all, first post here.

I recently got two VTF-3 MK3 subs for my home and I have been playing with them for a week or so. I am really impressed with the excellent veneer finish and the clean bass of course, but I have a few questions for you all on the setup if that's ok.

First, is it ok to post photo's here? I'd like to show off the awesome walnut finish and how I managed to put two huge subs in my living room without my wife moving out of the house, lol. :D

My first question is on phase. I have one sub in a near field placement at the end of the couch. The other is probably twice as far from the seating position in a front corner. I figured having the one firing into the side of the couch would give me the punch, and the corner placement would be good for deep smooth non directional bass. This also makes sense asthetically, as this is my living room. I'm been going back and forth though on the phase. I've had them out of phase most of the time, but I'd like some thoughts on this. Some material sounds sortof anemic when they're in phase, like they're fighting.

The second question is about gain. I would think I need to have the gain slightly higher on the corner sub, is that right? Should I just sit at the listening position, play a 50hz warble and set the gains so they both play it at 80db or whatever?

Thanks so much, I love these subs and I'm having a grand time playing with them. :)

NB

[cacihome]

Sure show us your pics!

1. Put the gain where you get the most output...(maybe one at 0 and one at 180 seems right in your case)
2. Calibrate each sub independently...(yes you are assuming right)

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi nb,

I'm really happy that you like the subs, thanks!

There are four different phase settings that one can try in theory: both with phase 0, both with phase 180, one with phase 0 and the other 180, and one with phase 180 and the other 0.

Without any measurement tools, you can just play some music that has significantly deep and mid-bass content, and choose the setting that sounds the punchiest and fullest.

Or, alternatively, with a Radio Shack SPL meter and our test tone CD, you can actually take measurements (with SPL meter at main listening position, ear level, set for C-weighting and "slow" settings) to see what gives the best result.

As for setting the volume on each sub, there are two ways to do it.

One way is to gain match. It is difficult to do casually by eye with the analog control (since the volume knob can be a bit misaligned from one unit to the next). But with an SPL meter and our test tone CD, it is pretty easy. Keep the SPL meter at a fixed position, say, 1 ft away from the first subwoofer. Keep the volume knob at 9 o'clock on the sub (1/4 of the way up). Keep the master volume level on the receiver at a fixed point, say, -20db. Play the 50Hz test tone on our test CD, and make a note of the SPL showing on the meter. Then, take the second sub and put it in the exact same location as the first sub, play the 50Hz test tone, and adjust the volume knob on the second sub until the SPL meter shows the same SPL as measured on the first. This way, the gain on each unit is precisely matched.

Another way to do it is to level match. This would simply involve setting volume knob on each subwoofer so that the measured SPL from the listening position was as close as possible for each subwoofer.

In your case, I would probably start with the level matching approach. If you find that one subwoofer runs out of steam before the other at your desired playback levels, then you can switch to the gain matching approach.

Sincerely,

[nbtstatic]

Ok, thanks for the responses so far. I do have a couple more questions, but I'm going to drop the pics in first and I'll be back on later.

I hope you enjoy them, and if you have other placement options for me I'd love to hear them. Thanks!:)

Here's a shot of the room overall. You can barely see sub #2 in the corner by the plant.
http://www.ethanshilling.com/photos/607086669_ZYNeY-X2.jpg

Sub #1 from the front in camo mode. Makes a real nice end table. :p
http://www.ethanshilling.com/photos/607087163_jRNpk-X2.jpg

Sub #1 from the front with the runner folded back in movie mode. ;)
http://www.ethanshilling.com/photos/607089395_jgRV3-X2.jpg

Sub#2 lives in the corner, I'm still playing with which way to place it in the corner, so excuse the wires.
http://www.ethanshilling.com/photos/607088283_gBUP9-X2.jpg

[Pete_Hsu]

Beautiful room and home you have there, nb!

The current placement seems nice and clean. If there is any difficulty in setting up the subwoofers separated as they are now, then you can try placing them next to each other in the front right section next to the stairwell.

Sincerely,

[nbtstatic]

Hi nb,

I'm really happy that you like the subs, thanks!

There are four different phase settings that one can try in theory: both with phase 0, both with phase 180, one with phase 0 and the other 180, and one with phase 180 and the other 0.

Without any measurement tools, you can just play some music that has significantly deep and mid-bass content, and choose the setting that sounds the punchiest and fullest.

Or, alternatively, with a Radio Shack SPL meter and our test tone CD, you can actually take measurements (with SPL meter at main listening position, ear level, set for C-weighting and "slow" settings) to see what gives the best result.

As for setting the volume on each sub, there are two ways to do it.

One way is to gain match. It is difficult to do casually by eye with the analog control (since the volume knob can be a bit misaligned from one unit to the next). But with an SPL meter and our test tone CD, it is pretty easy. Keep the SPL meter at a fixed position, say, 1 ft away from the first subwoofer. Keep the volume knob at 9 o'clock on the sub (1/4 of the way up). Keep the master volume level on the receiver at a fixed point, say, -20db. Play the 50Hz test tone on our test CD, and make a note of the SPL showing on the meter. Then, take the second sub and put it in the exact same location as the first sub, play the 50Hz test tone, and adjust the volume knob on the second sub until the SPL meter shows the same SPL as measured on the first. This way, the gain on each unit is precisely matched.

Another way to do it is to level match. This would simply involve setting volume knob on each subwoofer so that the measured SPL from the listening position was as close as possible for each subwoofer.

Sincerely,

Ok, this is exactly what I did the other day. Doing it that way the sub in the corner has a slightly higher volume setting, but nothing major. I usually sit in the right most seat on the long couch, by the end table, when listening to music. From there it just sounds like the little B&W bookshelf speakers are making the bass. There is no sensation of bass coming from either side, its just an even bass sound which is exactly why I wanted two subs to begin with.

I am so happy with these, they are the perfect combination of aesthetics and sound for me. As you can imagine, a lot of the big black box subs out there would not have looked nice in the room like these do.

Thanks much for your help, I basically just wanted to make sure I was approaching the setup correctly!

NB

[Pete_Hsu]

I'm so glad to hear that! That is exactly what you want, that all the bass sounds like it is coming from the front. This means the subwoofer(s) are very well integrated in the system.

Sincerely,

[nbtstatic]

One more q. How do you reccomend I handle the "distance" setting in my AVR with a sub setup like this? Average it out?

Thanks,
NB

[Pete_Hsu]

Yeah, go ahead and come up with an average distance setting for the subwoofer...