VTF-2 mk2 vs. STF-3

[jchakrav]

Ok....I know the obvious: the STF-3 is a bigger, louder sub.

But, I'm as concerned about getting tight, deep bass, as I am about output.
Size, also, is a factor.

How does the VTF-2 mk2 compare to the STF-3 in terms of extension, low-level dynamics, tightness, and output?
(i.e. if the STF-3 is as tight and deep as the VTF-2 (in ME mode), and goes substantially louder, then the STF-3 sounds like the right choice).

As I have young kids, I won't have much opportunity to really crank the volume on movies, so I want to be sure that the sub I buy can supply dynamic, tight, deep bass at low, moderate, (and spleen-rattling) volumes.

Also, are there divergent upgrade paths for the STF and VTF series subs (turbo etc. ?)

BTW - my room is approx. 13ft x 25ft with hallway entering mid-way. HT area is in one half of the room.
Floors are carpet covered concrete.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[Ddavidson]

Both the STF-3 and VTF-2 MK2 will have upgrade path/s, including the much talked about turbocharger. They both exhibit a very similar neutral tonality, and except for output capability are very similar for music. Positional changes within a room will have much more effect on how they sound than any differences between these two. Of course people perceive the higher output as better, but we are talking comparing these two subs with all things equal on the output level and depth (i.e. 25Hz setting on the VTF-2).

It sounds like your not wanting to replicate a Metallica concert, or playback a movie at the Dolby reference level, so I really think its more a question of what suits you as far as the physical size. Perhaps a graphic representation may show the relative differences better than just numbers.

The 3 series is quite a lot bigger than the 2 series.


Ddavidson

[jchakrav]

Thanks for the response!

So, if the VTF-2 is set to max-extension mode, what kind of SPL will it produce at 25Hz compared to the STF-3 at 25Hz?

Your comment about room placement is key. The smaller VTF-2 will give me additional placement options that I wouldn't have with the STF-3....so potentially I could negate any performance differences between the subs with improved placement.

*sigh*

but then....will I wish I bought the STF-3...? I really do (when the wife and kids are out) like to feel movie explosions in my gut...

Both the STF-3 and VTF-2 MK2 will have upgrade path/s, including the much talked about turbocharger. They both exhibit a very similar neutral tonality, and except for output capability are very similar for music. Positional changes within a room will have much more effect on how they sound than any differences between these two. Of course people perceive the higher output as better, but we are talking comparing these two subs with all things equal on the output level and depth (i.e. 25Hz setting on the VTF-2).

It sounds like your not wanting to replicate a Metallica concert, or playback a movie at the Dolby reference level, so I really think its more a question of what suits you as far as the physical size. Perhaps a graphic representation may show the relative differences better than just numbers.

The 3 series is quite a lot bigger than the 2 series.


Ddavidson

[Ddavidson]

Like anything to do with choice it can be tough to draw a line in the sand. In number terms at 25Hz your looking at about 7-8dB more. There is no doubt it moves more air so you can pretty well perceive the output difference as quite a bit louder, but its a matter of will you run it that loud? If your system is balanced .... running your subwoofer louder wll also mean that everything in your system is working much harder if it is to remain balanced. That’s why when asking about what to buy you get "just how loud do you listen?"

So although none of that is coming straight out and saying "pick A" or "pick B”, I ultimately think like many choices it can get into a very personal decision. It’s not necessarily what's a good fit to do the job.

Re-reading your post/s.

For me I can now sense your quandary better, and if it where me I would go with the STF-3 and have some HP in reserve just in case you desire more (once the good bass bug has bitten). If you can afford the space and more money that the STF-3 costs, it’s easier to answer. Remember that the STF-3 will do everything soundwise that the VTF-2 can do.



Ddavidson

[jchakrav]

Thanks again.

I have just placed an order (through a Canadian dealer) for an STF-3, and am looking forward to receiving it. You're right, better to have too much woof, than be wishing for more.

The wife will have issues with the 'big black box'.....but in the end, she'll just roll her eyes, shake her head, and walk away muttering about 'stupid hobby...'. Shortly thereafter, we'll watch Apollo 13 (or similar), and she'll understand. ;-)


Like anything to do with choice it can be tough to draw a line in the sand. In number terms at 25Hz your looking at about 7-8dB more. There is no doubt it moves more air so you can pretty well perceive the output difference as quite a bit louder, but its a matter of will you run it that loud? If your system is balanced .... running your subwoofer louder wll also mean that everything in your system is working much harder if it is to remain balanced. That’s why when asking about what to buy you get "just how loud do you listen?"

So although none of that is coming straight out and saying "pick A" or "pick B”, I ultimately think like many choices it can get into a very personal decision. It’s not necessarily what's a good fit to do the job.

Re-reading your post/s.

For me I can now sense your quandary better, and if it where me I would go with the STF-3 and have some HP in reserve just in case you desire more (once the good bass bug has bitten). If you can afford the space and more money that the STF-3 costs, it’s easier to answer. Remember that the STF-3 will do everything soundwise that the VTF-2 can do.



Ddavidson

[Ddavidson]

Yes that's about the size of it. But its funny they come around if you have everything dialled in and balanced. I have a separate preset for the wife which switches in less bass as most women seem to prefer even less than balanced where with movies guys tend to run a few dB's hot to make sure they hear what they paid for.

I think it’s that "Mars vs Venus" thing again !!!

Good to see some Canadians now getting the option to buy Hsu not just the local favorites such as Paradigm, Energy, Mirage etc. (not that some of them don’t have some great models)


Ddavidson

[jchakrav]

Yes - there is a good number of high-quality speaker manufacturers up here in Canada, and some excellent subs.

But, I think the STF-3 is going to provide unbeatable value.

As an example, I auditioned a Paradigm PW-2100 - good sub, approx $800 +tax (similar price to what I paid after tax/delivery for the STF-3).
I suspect the STF-3 will exceed the PW-2100 in all aspects of performance, and probably equal (or exceed) the $1000+tax PW-2200.

choice is always good, and the dialogue that occurs in the forum, and the accessibility of Dr. Hsu and the rest of the Hsu staff is unmatched, and an incredible resource.

Similar to something you mentioned in a previous message, a sub that has been properly located in a given room can easily surpass a 'superior' sub in extension, output, and tightness (in the same room).
So, to have the luxury of receiving placement advice and recommendations from the good genius Dr. Hsu himself......well all I can say is wow.

I'm happy to be a (soon-to-be) Hsu owner, and know I'll be even more impressed that I think I'm going to be!




Yes that's about the size of it. But its funny they come around if you have everything dialled in and balanced. I have a separate preset for the wife which switches in less bass as most women seem to prefer even less than balanced where with movies guys tend to run a few dB's hot to make sure they hear what they paid for.

I think it’s that "Mars vs Venus" thing again !!!

Good to see some Canadians now getting the option to buy Hsu not just the local favorites such as Paradigm, Energy, Mirage etc. (not that some of them don’t have some great models)


Ddavidson

[warpdrive]

I'd take the STF-3 over the VTF-2. For the minor price difference, the STF-3 should easily be able to take your present and future needs, but provide the extra headroom when you are free to crank it. As soon as you do, the STF-3 will stay flatter as the volume goes up.

And also, don't forget that you can always stuff one of the ports should you want a bit more extension thus getting you part way toward a VTF-3.

It's good to see Hsu in Canada, one thing that *other* competitor doesn't have yet. There are no dealers yet in my city, but hopefully there will be one someday (I personally prefer buying from a dealer locally)

To be fair to Paradigm, you should be able to come close to the STF-3's price with a PW-2200 after negotiation...that is a very good sub, and you should owe it to yourself to audition it. The PW-2200's actual measured performance is no doubt very good (and maybe even exceeds the STF-3's extension ability). If you can't get a decent discount on it (Paradigm dealers are very stingy with discounts), then it's a no-brainer, get the STF.