Test CD Question about who...

[The_Nephilim]

hi, I had bought a VTF-1 Sub and been enjoying for a couple of years. I have the Test CD and I lost the paper that came with it telling you what was on the CD.

Well I would like to know what version of the Saint-Saens is on this Test CD. I would like to get a CD version of this entire concert if it available somewhere.

I bought a SACD of Saint-Saens but the part that is on the SACD is Not even close to this recording on the Test CD.

I would really appreciate it THNX


-Gerald

[Bill Mitchell]

The Boston Audio Society offers what I believe is a later or more complete version of this CD for sale. Their line notes are here (http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/cd1_liner_notes.htm), with information about which performance of the Saint Saens Symphony #3 was recorded. When I listened to a different version, still with real organ, on LP, I could recognize the section as it passed by.

Bill

[The_Nephilim]

3. Saint-Saëns: Organ Symphony, excerpt from second movement
(Poco Adagio)
WARNING: When playing this track for the first time, lower the volume as your woofers may be at risk. The bottom octave of this recording may damage vented or planar loudspeakers. (The opening string passage should be quite soft.)
Boston Civic Symphony conducted by Max Hobart, James David Christie, organist. Two AKG 414 ORTF cardioids, about the third row in Boston's Jordan Hall, spring 1983. This was one of the last times that the Jordan Hall organ, already showing signs of serious asthma, was heard in a public performance. [MS]



Hmmm No mention of what CD it might be?? And what I mean by not close the Deep Bass Produced by the Test CD that I Feel in the Sub are no where close on the SACD.
On the SACD I barely hear and dont feel the Organ 16hz notes??

[Bill Mitchell]

Whose performance of the Saint-Saens Symphony #3 did you buy on SACD? If you find it unsatisfactory, I might want to avoid it.

You are right, that it does not appear that the Boston Civic Symphony has released a complete version of this piece. At least I did not see one searching on Amazon.

Here on the Hsu forum, I have found the following versions mentioned:
Munch with the Boston Symphony Orchestra on SACD (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=36507&postcount=3)
Edo de Waart, San Francisco Symphony (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=33208&postcount=6)
Michael Murry and Christian Badea/Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=15629&postcount=3)

Although this (http://www.highfidelityreview.com/reviews/review.asp?reviewnumber=10934927) is a review of the Munch version with the Boston Symphony, the reviewer comments on many of the other versions. It turns out that my LP version (http://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saens-Symphony-No-Minor-Op/dp/B002UFYZRM/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1259293755&sr=1-12), by Ernst Ansermet and the Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, is one which this reviewer classified as totally missing the mark. I will have to listen to it again, but as I recall it did not give as much emphasis to the organ as did the test CD.

Bill

[The_Nephilim]

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/4356


This is the One I bought on SACD. Now when you listen to the same part on the SACD this is NO where near what is on the TEST CD..

It got High ratings 31 out of 36 reccomended it But I do NOT.. I want to Hear that 16HZ as Well as My Sub can Produce it like what I hear on the TEST CD ;)

[The_Nephilim]

Well I went ahead but Normally this time of year I dont buy Myself Anything but I made an exception this year and purchased this Version of Saint Saens:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002TKFGI/ref=ox_ya_oh_product



Hopefully it will be a Subwoofer killer ;)

[PolkSRS1.2]

As long as we are talking about that 16htz tone, does anyone else think the tone is way over emphasised for a pipe organ. I have many fine large organ recordings and none have that loud of bass note in comparison to the rest of the passage.

[Bill Mitchell]

Well I went ahead but Normally this time of year I dont buy Myself Anything but I made an exception this year and purchased this Version of Saint Saens:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002TKFGI/ref=ox_ya_oh_product

Hopefully it will be a Subwoofer killer ;)

I think you going to be disappointed. Pursuing your question, just a couple days before you, I ordered my own copy of the Charles Munch/Boston Symphony performance of the Saint Saens on SACD. It arrived this afternoon. The organ does not stand out in its sections, it is one instrument among many in the orchestra. Of course, maybe my SACD/DSD conversion has some anomalies, too, I don't have much experience with it.

I replayed my vinyl version of the Ernest Ansermet and Orchestre de la Suisse Romande performance, and compared it to the test CD. There the organ stands out, more as if it were a concerto instead of a symphony. If it is not the same balance as the test CD, it's close. I don't know if it has the same impact on CD as it does on vinyl, but affordable used CD versions (http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-3-Organ-Saint-Saens/dp/B00000E4VG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1260486090&sr=1-5) are available on Amazon. A different CD, but still with Ansermet's performance of Saint Saens, is here (http://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saens-Sym-Organ-Rouet-dOmphale/dp/B0027GWJE0). There an new SHM-CD version (http://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saens-Symphony-No-3-Shm-CD/dp/B001DKBKAA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1260486090&sr=1-1) available, too, from Amazon; I've not yet tried any SHM-CD albums, yet, I have barely any SACDs.

PolkSRS1.2 may be right, that the test CD has a very unusual balance of organ to orchestra. I have hardly any organ music. I bought the Saint Saens LP decades ago on a whim. So I cannot say.

Bill

P.S. In the notes that came with the Munch / Boston Symphony version, it talks about the deepest organ pedal tones being 36.7Hz low D-flat in the poco adagio, and 32.6Hz low C in the Maestro movement. This appears to be confirmed in the Wikipedia article on Boston Symphony Hall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_Hall,_Boston): it suggests that the 32 foot pipes were removed when the Aeolian-Skinner organ was installed in 1949. So the Munch performance is missing the 16Hz tones and the corresponding octave that are present on the test CD.

[The_Nephilim]

In 2003 the organ was thoroughly overhauled by Foley-Baker Inc., reusing its chassis and many pipes, but enclosing the Bombarde and adding to it the long-desired Principal (diapason) pipes, adding a new Solo division, and reworking its chamber for better sound projection



It appears those Diapason pipes are back in it according to that last statement from the wiki?? So those tones will be heard on later recordings??

Are there any recordings in that hall after the new Organ was added?? I would very much hope there is something recorded after 2003??


EDIT: What is a SHM CD??

[Bill Mitchell]

...

Are there any recordings in that hall after the new Organ was added?? I would very much hope there is something recorded after 2003??


EDIT: What is a SHM CD??

As always, google's your friend. I found this explanatory article on SHM CD (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue39/shmcd.htm).

I thought about going through all the SACD of Saint Saen's Symphony #3, figuring out where they were recorded, with which organ, and what we could learn about the organ. That sounds like a bit of work. Wikipedia's article on the Saint Saens symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._3_%28Saint-Sa%C3%ABns%29) noted that the Royal Albert Hall organ has 32' pipes, and the article on the Hall itself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albert_Hall_Organ) mentions 64' pipes. So maybe there is a version recorded in London.

[The_Nephilim]

Well I may have scored a Good version of this altho I am NOT sure where it was performed. It is a Telarc version of Saint-Saens Organ Symphony and is a newer recording.

I do Know it was performed by the London Symphany Orchestra and I am Hoping it was performed at RAH or LC??

[The_Nephilim]

well the Telarc was NOT recorded at either Hall/Cathedral.

I had listened to it today it was really good and the Tones seemed to be at a 16hz low ;)

I did Find this copy at Amazon:


Saint-Saens Organ Symphony, San Francisco Symphony, Edo de Waart


It was recorded at Davies Hall this should be what I have been looking for?? I cant wait till I recieve this new version I found to see if it is as good as the Telarc or Better..


to Anybody or someone HSU: I need the Paper copy that came with the Test CD that described the Test CD Songs and also says what tones are produced for testing... I would like to get this Faxed to me or you can Scan it and email it too me??. could someone Please do me this favor ;)