2 1220HO's or a VTF3-HO?

[nessus]

Ok, here's the skinny. I've preordered a 3HO, but the prospect of waiting till the end of march (at least) to start really enjoying my new HT is getting harder and harder to deal with. Recently I've got a beat on a pair of 1220HO and a HSU 500watt amp for what I think is a very good price. It would save me some bucks off the 3HO w/ tc, lets just say that.

But my delima is if I'm going to spend $700+ on a sub, I might as well get the best I can, even if it costs me a bit more. Also, I'm a little intimidated at the though of setting up two cylindrical subs in my system. What is the general theory for placement of two 1220HO? My room is 22/12/8'7". 8'8" of the screen wall is taken up by my screen. So the subs would either have to go in the corners, or somewhere on the floor. The front row of seating is aboout 13' from the screen.

Here's a picture of the screen side of my room:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/capek/DSC00228.jpg

Has anyone heard both the 1220HO's and the 3HO? It would be awesome is someone with experience with both could chime in and tell me how they compare for music and movies. In fact, how do the 1220HO's compare to newer boxed subs when it comes to the tightness of bass needed to accurately reproduce music? What are the numbers as far as frequency and dbl level as to how the 1220HO performs?

And info and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

[Pete_Hsu]

Dear nessus,

What price is the dual TN1220HO + amplifier?

The dual TN1220HO system is a really great system, I think that you would very much enjoy it. You could place two of them side by side in a front corner, or place them apart in each front corner. If you want to minimize floorspace occupied by the subwoofers, keep them upright. If you want to minimize height, then lay them on their sides.

You really can't go wrong one way or another.

Take care!

Sincerely,

[nessus]

Dear nessus,

What price is the dual TN1220HO + amplifier?

Thanks for the reply Peter.

I can get the combo for $700. How much did something like this run new?

If I was going to stand them up, is there a set distance they need to be away from the wall? It's hard to tell from the picture, but there's about 15" between the edge of the screen and a thin covering up a window on one side and a wall on the other. By putting the tube vertical on either side of the screen in such close proximity to the thin curtains connected to the rods by metal clips, do you think the 1220 would creat enough turbulence that it would make the metal clips rattle on the rod.

As far as the performance of the 1220's, how clean is the bass, and do they perform as well for music as for HT?

Thanks again.

[Pete_Hsu]

My pleasure to assist, nessus!

$700 is a truly fantastic price for dual TN1220HO + 500 watt amplifier combo. This was sold factory direct at $1500-$1700 in the past for new units! In fact, we are still selling the amplifier, and that sells for $749 just by itself!

The TN1220HO has a downfiring 4" port and an upward firing 12" driver. You can place the subwoofer right next to the wall with no problems. I do not think you will have any problems with such a setup.

Dual TN1220HO + 500 watt amplifier were considered our flagship product for many years. One would probably need dual VTF-3 HO to significantly improve on them (although the VTF-3 HO does go a bit lower due to lower tuning in maximum extension mode). We have some reviews on our website on the TN1220HO from some very well known and respected reviewers such as Don Keele, Howard Ferstler, Paul Seydor, Clemont Perry, and I would encourage you to read through those.

Have a wonderful night, and let us know how things go for you!

Sincerely,

[JimLely]

One would probably need dual VTF-3 HO to significantly improve on them (although the VTF-3 HO does go a bit lower due to lower tuning in maximum extension mode). Sincerely,


Hi Peter,

I thought that you stated in a posting a few months ago that 1 VTF-3HO (perhaps with turbo) was comparable to 2 TN1220s?


Regards,

Jim

[nessus]

I think the key to that sentence is the phrase "significantly improve". One 3HO would be comparably to two 1220's, but would play a bit lower. But with the high quality of bass you'd get from these two units, you'd need a second 3HO to see a major improvement. That's the way I took it at least, which is totally consistent with everything I've read about these two subs.

[cschang]

That would be one 3HO WITH the turbo is comparable to two TN1220's.

Without the turbo, I believe one 3HO set to max extension, is comparable to one TN1220.

[Ddavidson]

That would be one 3HO WITH the turbo is comparable to two TN1220's.
In its low bass capability.

Ddavidson

[JimLely]

That would be one 3HO WITH the turbo is comparable to two TN1220's.

Without the turbo, I believe one 3HO set to max extension, is comparable to one TN1220.


3HO + turbo= 2 TN1220s.
3HO= 1 TN1220.
Solving equation for turbo:
Ergo, 1 turbo= 1 TN1220

Looks like that turbo is a very cost-effective addition, especially for a measly $100. Glad I ordered my 3HO with turbo.

[zora]

The thing that has perplexed me about these comparisons is that the 1220 had a decent driver, fairly large enclosure, one 4" flared port, and a 250 watt amp. The new 3-HO has at least the same size enclosure (perhaps bigger), dual 4" flared ports, a much better driver (long throw, XBL2), and a 500 watt amp - (with perhaps some EQ'ing?). Surely a single HO can best the TN1220? Peter implied in another post that the old HRSW12Va is at least a match for the 1220, so we should expect that the newest Hsu offering (2 generations newer than the HRSW) would outperform all past offerings - shouldn't we? A single HO with turbo should compete with what, three 1220's?
JP

[cschang]

Also keep in mind, Hsu has always been the conservative type.

[ScoobyDufus]

Guys, this is rediculous. The way that all this speculation is going, we're setting ourselves up for a massive disappointment due to what seems like unreasonably high expectations from what is still just a single 12" driver subwoofer in the 3HO. Let's not forget about physics. There's only so much low frequency bass that a single 12" driver can produce even in a perfectly designed enclosure and ports. The IS a limit. Sure I believe Dr. Hsu's reputation sets expectations very high, but I think we gotta realize there's gonna be diminishing returns at some point. Dr. Hsu is putting a lot of research time and implementing an alternative approach (Turbo) towards achieving lower bass extention, squeezing out every last bit of performance from a single 12" driver. His efforts are greatly appreciated by all of us who enjoy his quality subs at relatively low cost, but at some point, those efforts will yield smaller leaps in performance unless a remarkable breakthrough occurs in acoustic theory. I'm not saying there's not much room for improvement. Honestly, I don't know. But I do know that the 1220s already have a high reputation. To say that the new 3HO will replace two or even suggesting three 1220s is SIGNIFICANT!

I realize Peter made the comparison of one 3HO+turbo to two 1220s, but geez... that's quite an accomplishment, and I hope for his sake that Dr. Hsu is truly delivering to that level. And of course, people's interpretation of that comparison and increasing anticipation of the delivery will inevitably, by human nature, propel the expectation to higher and potentially unrealistic levels. In other words, let's just wait to hear the sub first hand before we talk comparisons.... or we could all be disappointed simply because we all falsely raised that bar through premature comparisons.

I could be all wrong about this, but I just wanted to speak my thoughts. I'm on the pre-order list, hopeful as heck for superb performance, but I'm trying to be realistic, too.

[Sorny]

Well, owning a pair of TN1220HO subs, I'll say this: if a single VTF-3HO can output as much low bass as 2 TN subs, then it is a fantastic piece of engineering, regardless of the price. Hopefully, the VTF-3HO (with or without turbo) will have good upper bass headroom as well as low bass headroom. Knowing what I do of HSU, I do not doubt this to be the case.

Sorny

[Michael Bain]

A single VTF-3HO must be at least as good as a TN1220HO even without turbo. It is probably somewhere between a single TN1220HO and dual TN1220HO in performance, without turbo. Turbo must take the performance to another level.

Not very likely that a VTF-3HO will be equal to THREE TN1220's. That would defy physics. Although it could be possible below 17Hz, since the VTF-3HO is tuned lower.

[ScoobyDufus]

Well there's absolutely no doubt the VTF-3HO should be (and better be) at least as good as a single TN1220HO. If not, Dr. Hsu is in trouble from an engineering and business standpoint. Now, whether the Turbo adds enough to match (or go beyond) the level of DUAL TN1220HOs is remarkable, especially while still using just a single 12" driver and keeping costs to under $1000. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just hoping he's truly able to pull off this feat in order to match the already high expectations that everybody seems to have prior to it's release. Yes, we should expect a solid step up in performance. It's the giant leap of matching DUAL TN1220s that I find stunning. We'll just hafta wait and hear.....

[Michael Bain]

The reason a single VTF-3HO with turbo will be at least as good as DUAL TN1220HO is because of dual 4" ports versus dual 4" ports. Same port area, both in a low tune, same amount of air that can be pushed through the ports.

Single 12" driver or not is not the biggest factor at or near the low tune.

Dr. Hsu appears to have outdone himself with this design.

[spyboy]

nessus

If you decide to pass on the dual 1220s + amp, please let me know at:

spyboy64@hotmail.com

[cschang]

nessus

If you decide to pass on the dual 1220s + amp, please let me know at:

spyboy64@hotmail.com
DITTO!!!

PM me!

[zora]

Guys,
You are right, the speculation is interesting - but what else can we do until they start shipping. I guess I should have prefaced my remarks with the phrase "in the low bass range" as that is what gets missed in the comparison (and what generated some "heated" debate on this and other forums!) The real issue is the port area aspect. The HO has the advantage, like the old HRSW12Va, of two 4" highly flared ports. The 1220 had one, so you can expect only so much from it.
Just as a side note to those people who think that the HO is pushing the limits of a 12" sub design check out the Danley Sound Labs DTS-20, which is in an entirely different league than the HO.
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DTS20.html
It bests the Contrass in output, supposedly with good SQ. That is amazing engineering. Yes, is it expensive and I am not comparing it to the HO - but read about it yourself and prepare to be astounded.
JP

[nessus]

Sorry spyboy and cschang , I had pretty much decided to go with the dual 1220's + amp when I started this thread, if just to use them as a stop gap until the 3HO's begin shipping and reviews begin coming out. I may not know much, but I know a good deal when it walks up a punches me in the gut. :)

About a month ago I put an offer on a pair of 1220's that were listed on audiogon for $300 obo, but the guy basically blew off my offer of $500. So this past friday when I saw a listing from a guy in the same city as me for a pair plus the 500 watt amp for $800, which a day later he reduced to $700, and required a local sell, well, let me just say it was a no brainer for me to jump on it. I figure being in the right place at the right time for this deal used up all my luck for the next decade, but hey, I was never really that lucky to begin with, so no big loss there. So I drove out on sunday and picked them up. Save some dust, everything was in like new condition, and the guy was really nice, throwing in some speaker cables, an interconnect and y-adapter.

At this point I haven't had near enough quality time with them to really have any meaning full comments on their performance. A couple songs sunday evening(which is a story in and of itself), and a couple songs today is all I've had time for. My previous sub, the only one I've ever owned, is a Velo VX-10B, so as far as output goes, well, these 1220's are a revelation. As to their musicality, I'm with holding judgement until I get them correctly placed and calibrated. A task that is going to be hampered by my lack of experience on the subject and the fact that my main reciever, a refurb'd HK-630 started to smoke 15 minutes before the Superbowl and will be sitting at an authorized repairer for the next month or so while they fix the other half dozen HK receivers that decided to give out just before mine. :mad: Until I get it back I'm using my old Yammy with far less features.

But back to the 1220's, using the crossover on the Hsu(set to 51Hz), and just playing around with the volume on the Hsu amp and my reciever, the results have been good enough that I feel quite confident that once I get back my main reciever and I'm able to set the levels, distance, crossover and bass management I'll be able to blend the subs in with my Ascend 340SE's and get a very potent system for both music and movies. The neighbors I share a wall with definitely feel differently, but I'm pretty darn happy.

[Michael Bain]

Guys,
You are right, the speculation is interesting - but what else can we do until they start shipping. I guess I should have prefaced my remarks with the phrase "in the low bass range" as that is what gets missed in the comparison (and what generated some "heated" debate on this and other forums!) The real issue is the port area aspect. The HO has the advantage, like the old HRSW12Va, of two 4" highly flared ports. The 1220 had one, so you can expect only so much from it.
Just as a side note to those people who think that the HO is pushing the limits of a 12" sub design check out the Danley Sound Labs DTS-20, which is in an entirely different league than the HO.
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DTS20.html
It bests the Contrass in output, supposedly with good SQ. That is amazing engineering. Yes, is it expensive and I am not comparing it to the HO - but read about it yourself and prepare to be astounded.
JP

Just goes to show that using 2 or 4 or more drivers and stuffing it in one enclosure is not the "holy grail" for bass performance. The most gifted subwoofer designers realized this a long time ago, including Dr. Hsu.

What separates Dr. Hsu from the rest is his ability to get really great sound quality and SPL at a low cost without resorting to refridgerator sized boxes.

[Active Speaker]

There is no way that one 12" driver bests two 12" drivers in terms of air physically moved; maybe in terms of very low frequency air.

[zora]

ActiveSpeaker,
Yes it can, you are thinking in a linear fashion. The driver itself, along with the alignment is an issue. Think about this for a second - take an average prosound 12" driver with a linear xmax of 6mm and compare it to a modern high excursion driver with an xmax in the 28-32mm range and you have a situation where one twelve can displace four times the air as the other! Put the high output driver in a horn (think K-Horn, Paragon, Labhorn, or the new Danley design) and the acoustic efficiency goes up even more. In this situation a single 12 could effectively move more air per watt of input than 6-12 of the other drivers. When you consider that most conventional drivers (over the last 80 years) waste over 90% of the input power in the form of heat, not signal reproduction - there is clearly room for improving their ability to move air more efficiently.
JP

[ScoobyDufus]

Just goes to show that using 2 or 4 or more drivers and stuffing it in one enclosure is not the "holy grail" for bass performance.

That's very true, but only to a certain point. Eventually, in order to achieve higher levels of performance (measured by clean low frequency SPLs) you absolutely must add more drivers. Yes, the enclosure will HAVE TO become larger, too, but there is only so much that can be achieved with a single driver, regardless of enclosure size. Take, for example, a desire to achieve 170dB of clean output from 10 to 100Hz. Obviously this is an exaggeration of what would be realistic, but it ultimately supports my argument that at some point, in order to achieve these higher levels, increasing the enclosure size and/or port length will yield diminishing returns, and therefore you need to start looking at adding drivers (with larger enclosure).

As for the 3HO, I am really just questioning how realistic it is to achieve doubled performance from a single driver design in a box of smaller volume than two TN1220s. As you said, the fact that there are now DUAL 4" ports to match dual TN1220 port area certainly makes sense and perhaps that's just it. But then this gets me thinking, what's after the 3HO? Do you double the ports again (four 4" ports) to achieve the equal performance of dual 3HOs? If that's true, when does it stop? To me, this is just interesting.

[Michael Bain]

Adding a bunch of drivers and just mildly increasing enclosure size or porting will not do much to increase output at low frequencies.

[ScoobyDufus]

Adding a bunch of drivers and just mildly increasing enclosure size or porting will not do much to increase output at low frequencies.

I understand and very much agree with that. Perhaps this is where a misunderstanding has taken place. I was looking at the comparison that Peter made of one VTF3-HO to two TN1220s over then entire frequency range of the subwoofers - twice as much clean output across the range. I totally agree that tuning a sub to lower frequency by adding port/enclosure size could definitely match the performance of two higher tuned subs at LOW FREQUENCIES ONLY. However, at higher frequencies (40Hz -100Hz) the comparison of one 12" driver sub to two 12" driver subs becomes rediculous, because that's where the driver itself becomes more significant in producing those frequencies. You absolutely need air displacement. Now since Dr. Hsu has improved the 12" driver as well, perhaps we will see improved performance throughout the subs frequency range. But maybe Peter's comparison was only in regards to low frequencies (<20Hz). My mistake, and therefore, I no longer challenge that comparison. I just hope nobody else is going down this path of misunderstanding only to be disappointed because the VTF-3HO didn't live up to their misinformed expectations. Fortunately for me, I don't own a Hsu sub yet, so anything from them will probably impress me. :)

[JimLely]

I understand and very much agree with that. Perhaps this is where a misunderstanding has taken place. I was looking at the comparison that Peter made of one VTF3-HO to two TN1220s over then entire frequency range of the subwoofers - twice as much clean output across the range. ......... But maybe Peter's comparison was only in regards to low frequencies (<20Hz). :)


Peter,

Can you clarify what you meant?


Regards,

Jim

[zora]

I believe that Peter stated that the advantage the HO had was in the very low frequencies, where the port is doing most of the work. Dual flared 4" ports can simply move more air without port compression than a single 4" port. One could argue that the TN1220's were actually underported if you are looking for extremely high output in the low bass frequencies. I made a "clone" of a TN1220 with a 6" flared Aeroport and the increase in output was impressive over the standard model.
JP

[cschang]

I made a "clone" of a TN1220 with a 6" flared Aeroport and the increase in output was impressive over the standard model.

How much taller/bigger did you have to make the sub?

[Active Speaker]

ActiveSpeaker,
Yes it can, you are thinking in a linear fashion. The driver itself, along with the alignment is an issue. Think about this for a second - take an average prosound 12" driver with a linear xmax of 6mm and compare it to a modern high excursion driver with an xmax in the 28-32mm range and you have a situation where one twelve can displace four times the air as the other! Put the high output driver in a horn (think K-Horn, Paragon, Labhorn, or the new Danley design) and the acoustic efficiency goes up even more. In this situation a single 12 could effectively move more air per watt of input than 6-12 of the other drivers. When you consider that most conventional drivers (over the last 80 years) waste over 90% of the input power in the form of heat, not signal reproduction - there is clearly room for improving their ability to move air more efficiently.
JP


I was thinking of comparable drivers where the only significant change is the port.

[zora]

I was thinking of comparable drivers where the only significant change is the port.

I assumed you meant that, but the problem is that the new HO driver is a much better speaker than the older VTF-3/1220 driver (from what we know of the Adire drivers in the past.) So we are comparing apples to oranges. Even in your example, the simple addition of an extra port will allow the 12" driver to reach its full potential - which might be twice the output of the design with a single port (the equiv. of adding a second driver.)

Cschang,
The overall height w/legs is around 60" I believe. Simple upright 14" sonosub with a long 6" PNR flared port, that takes up a square foot of floor space. I kept the native tune the same, and used a Hsu amp. It is simply much better than the TN1220 - but then again, I don't have to worry about the general public accepting/buying this sub.
JP

[Michael Bain]

A 6" port is comparable to two 4" ports. As you rightfully noted, there is a big difference when doubling up from a single 4" port, so VTF-3HO should pull away as well from TN1220HO.

[Pete_Hsu]

Dear Jim,

Peter,

Can you clarify what you meant?


Regards,

Jim

The VTF-3 HO with turbocharger should be comparable to dual TN1220HO in the low bass.

The lowest bass is by far the most difficult for a subwoofer to cleanly reproduce. Commercial vented subwoofers tend to always be limited in the low bass, and tend to be limited by porting rather than by amplifier power or by driver excursion.

Turbocharger is nice because it is a very cost-effective way to relieve some of the low bass bottleneck in the subwoofer without forcing the consumer to purchase a much larger and much heavier enclosure.

Sincerely,

[zora]

Just a small note, a six inch flared port has almost the same cross-sectional area (flow potential) as three four inch ports.
JP

[cschang]

Just a small note, a six inch flared port has almost the same cross-sectional area (flow potential) as three four inch ports.
JP
Are you including the flare for the six in port and not for the four inch ports?

The area of a 4" diameter circle is roughly 12.56 square inches, and for a 6" diameter circle is roughly 28.26 square inches". Two 4" ports would be about 25.12 square inches.....whereas three would be 37.68.

Maybe I am misinterpreting something?

[Michael Bain]

I'm with chang on this one. A six inch port is just about the same as two four inch ports.

[craigsub]

Curtis, you are correct. Plus most of the 6 inch ports are not flared as heavily, relatively, as are the 4 inch ports. It is pretty much a wash.

[cschang]

Thanks Craig...I was hoping my math was correct. :)

[nessus]

I have a couple questions about my new 1220's I'm hoping someone can answer for me.

1) One cylinder has a seamless body and a textless driver. The other has a seam spiraling around the cylinder and the driver has "Hsu" written on it. Besides these cosmetic differences, are there any other differences between these two versions of the 1220? From the description, can these two 1220's be dated?

2) At this point I have the 500w amp in the back corner of the room with the rest of my equipment, and both subs in the far left corner to the side of the screen and behind my left speaker. Each sub is wired to it's own binding post on the amp. If the subs are going to be placed next to each other, is there any benifit to the amp/sound quality etc if I wire the second sub to the first, instead of the amp? I know the manual advises this, but I'm just curious if there's a real word benifit to doing it one way over the other.

3) According to both my ears and my radioshack spl meter, there is an obvious dip in some bass frequencies in the center of the room where my optimal seating position is located. The loudest place is in the corner where my components are located. I haven't pulled out my Avia test disk to look at specific frequencies, but generally speaking what should I do to address this dip? Just move the subs around the room until the dip is gone? Is there a website that explains this stuff in good detail but in laymens terms? I'm a newborn when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks

Robert

[chucklee]

If possible, you might try splitting your 1220's up... one in each front corner, or one in a corner, and the other in a little ways across the front soundstage (perhaps between the other main and your display).

By setting mine up the second way I described, I reduced an 8 Hz wide and 10 Hz deep frequency dip to only 3 Hz deep.

Of course, every room is different, and you will probably have to play around with placement.


I have a couple questions about my new 1220's I'm hoping someone can answer for me.

1) One cylinder has a seamless body and a textless driver. The other has a seam spiraling around the cylinder and the driver has "Hsu" written on it. Besides these cosmetic differences, are there any other differences between these two versions of the 1220? From the description, can these two 1220's be dated?

2) At this point I have the 500w amp in the back corner of the room with the rest of my equipment, and both subs in the far left corner to the side of the screen and behind my left speaker. Each sub is wired to it's own binding post on the amp. If the subs are going to be placed next to each other, is there any benifit to the amp/sound quality etc if I wire the second sub to the first, instead of the amp? I know the manual advises this, but I'm just curious if there's a real word benifit to doing it one way over the other.

3) According to both my ears and my radioshack spl meter, there is an obvious dip in some bass frequencies in the center of the room where my optimal seating position is located. The loudest place is in the corner where my components are located. I haven't pulled out my Avia test disk to look at specific frequencies, but generally speaking what should I do to address this dip? Just move the subs around the room until the dip is gone? Is there a website that explains this stuff in good detail but in laymens terms? I'm a newborn when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks

Robert

[JimLely]

If one woofer has a convex dust cover and a foam surround it is the older of the two Hsu woofers and is approximately 3dB less efficient. If it has a concave dust cover and a rubber surround then it's the newer.

The RS meter is not linear at low frequencies and needs a correction factor (available on many sites -- evevn SVS) to be credible.

I've found that the most thoroghly researched info on room modes and boundary effects is on the Harman International site (see their white papers). There's a lot of great stuff by Dr Floyd Toole at this site -- a very prolific guy.
Toole's research indicates that in general, in a rectangular room, that with 2 subs the most optimal locations to tame room resonances are midwall front (1st sub) and midwall back (2nd sub). You can also effectively tame room modes using Harman's RABOS system with a parametric equalizer. However, there's not much you can do about a severe dip except to move the listener or sub.

[nessus]

Thanks for the advice chucklee and JimLely. I tried positioning one on each side of the screen, and the dip lessened a bit. Then I moved them about 5 feet from the screen-side wall along the wall and the sound improved noticably. I can't quite get midwall, because there is a small hallway in the middle of one wall. Should I think about moving one sub midwall, and leaving the other closer to the screenside wall? That Harman site looks like it has some great resources, thanks for the heads up. I've downloaded some of the pdf's but haven't gotten a chance to read through them yet. I have a RS SPL meter and a lab top, and I know there is a chord I need to connect them and some software to use for a frequency sweep and other things to test room response. Is there a particular website that has the proggies to use as well as guides?

Thanks again,

Robert

[dae3dae3]

Room EQ wizard is a free program you can use. I haven't used it much but here is the site.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mulcahy/roomeq/index.html

Darren

[tdekany]

Thanks for the advice chucklee and JimLely. I tried positioning one on each side of the screen, and the dip lessened a bit. Then I moved them about 5 feet from the screen-side wall along the wall and the sound improved noticably. I can't quite get midwall, because there is a small hallway in the middle of one wall. Should I think about moving one sub midwall, and leaving the other closer to the screenside wall? That Harman site looks like it has some great resources, thanks for the heads up. I've downloaded some of the pdf's but haven't gotten a chance to read through them yet. I have a RS SPL meter and a lab top, and I know there is a chord I need to connect them and some software to use for a frequency sweep and other things to test room response. Is there a particular website that has the proggies to use as well as guides?

Thanks again,

Robert

best to call Dr Hsu - no one knows his subs better. :D

[daltonlanny]

Since the old HRSW12Va had dual flared 4" ports, does this mean that its output in the low bass would have been superior to the TN1220 HO?
The HRSW12Va was approximately 22" high and approx. 22" around.
How would its internal volume compare to the TN1220HO's which is about 50" high and 12" around?

[cschang]

It also depends on how long the port tubes were.

[Pete_Hsu]

The 12Va would have some advantage over the 1220HO in the deep bass (based on porting and internal volume). However, the 12Va used 90 degree port bends, which does not quite promote laminar air flow like the newer bent port technology that we are using on the HO.