How to setup VTF-2 MK3 for music use?

[TampaBay]

How to setup VTF-2 MK3 for music use?
I have Yamaha Receiver, 2 front Klipsch KG5.5 for front speakers, and just got this VTF2-MK3 over the weekend.
http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/product...pecifications/ (http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/kg-5-5-specifications/)

The setup currently I got is:
Phase = Rev
Cross over = 60Hz (both on sub and receiver)
I have 2 holes on the back open and flip the switch to 2 ports....

Now, I play music with average boom boom bass, it is kind of rattle and shaking.....i don't know how to explain it, but it give me headache. (today is Monday and still headache from it). :(

Did i setup incorrectly? The only good is when playing movie.
So, how can I set up for strong and fast cha cha cha music? thanks.
I use 90% of the time for music.
Thanks.

[hometheatergeek]

A subwoofer correctly setup will do both music and movies equally well. You do have yours incorrectly setup. What you are doing is what is called cascading crossovers. This is totally incorrect dude.

Since you seem to have a AVR that does bass management turn off the crossover on the sub. Set the volume on the sub to between 9:00 and 11:00 on the dial. Start with the phase set to 0 not rev. At this point run the Yamaha YPAO, if you have it, with the new settings and the sub should sound better. :)

You should also do a search on the web for Subwoofer Setup 101. It will have alot more info then what I posted here.

[TampaBay]

I followed your instructions and also searched the web for setup...
I changed the phase to Normal (0) and flip the switch (0/180) to 0, and the switch for in/out i set it to In. It sound a little bit better, but not satisfy yet .

I don't have long wire to run to the sofa yet, currently I let it sat by front speakers. it is about 5 fts away from the receiver.

The book said for smoother music play, set the Phase to Rev, but the web said set to 0 or NOrmal.

[hometheatergeek]

Set the crossover switch to out on the subwoofer then go into your Yamaha and setup the crossover on the AVR to 80Hz. Try that, then lets us know how it sounds.

[TampaBay]

Sorry, I haven't try yet, I went to church yesterday eve and forgot after that. will try tonight and post back result .

[TampaBay]

still not good... i will try set up more later...thanks

[hometheatergeek]

I forgot to mention one other setting. Did you set your speakers to small in the Yamaha receiver?

[TampaBay]

Thanks hometheadergeek,
I still leave it as large. when I run accross one of the posts that I google, one guy said it is ok to leave Large.....so I still have it as Large.

Is it OK to have it sit on carpet or wood floor?

[hometheatergeek]

Yes it is ok to be on the carpet or the floor. All of my subs sit on the carpeted floor and they sound fantastic.

Do you have at least a 10" woofer in your main speakers?

If not, you really need to try my recommendation and set your speakers to small. It can't hurt to try.

[TampaBay]

Thanks so much for helping me out.
I did try to set to small. I only notice a bit different in the main speakers when change between small and large. Yes, I have 10" sub builtin in the main speakers.

I think it sounds OK for now, but not as expected. I guess just because the 12" on VTF-2 MK3 is too large; therefore, it vibrate too much and bass not strong and tight ???? I have wood floor, but let it sit on the small carpet that I cut out for it. (the 4 legs is pointed, so it is good to sit on something firm, so I cut a carpet out for it :) )

I will try to setup and play around over the weekend, and give you the result later.
thanks again and have a great weekend.

[hometheatergeek]

Ok it was good that you tried the small setting.

If it vibrates too much you could always get one of these:

It is called a Auralex subdude.

http://www.amazon.com/Auralex-SubDude/dp/B000LV89WO

I still think you might need help setting the sub up properly. Do you have any friends, like me, that are obsessed with AV and have the tools to do a proper setup?

Your wooden floors might also be a problem by creating echos in your room. Have you thought about putting down an area rug in the middle of the room?

[kmitchell]

Hi TampaBay,

Welcome to the HSU family. After reading over your thread I have to advise you to start with the basics. Make a sketch of your room, mark your speaker and sub positions along with your seating positions, and post it here for us to take a look at. It sounds like you have your sub somewhat in the middle of the room or at least in the middle of a wall at the front stage. You should get a longer cable and play around with sub positioning before you get too much into your receiver settings. You will be amazed at what sub positioning will do for your bass output and quality. I have the VTF2.3 and I can tell you once you have it tuned you will be very happy with it.

Follow the manual for the sub and set it to crossover out, sub volume to around 9 o'clock position and set your receiver to 80Hz LFE and speakers at small. Then you can play around with sub positioning and then finally you can fine tune you receiver settings.

Hope this helps,

Ken

[TampaBay]

Ken and HTGeek,
Sorry to get back this late....I was extremely busy helping the church set up the x-mas lights and many other things for xmas.....

Yes, I currently have my sub near the main speakers and by the wall. I will get longer cable and try it again later. I will upload my drawing little bit later.

[TampaBay]

Please see my attached PDF file for the room layout.

[hometheatergeek]

Hello again Tampa,

In the current subwoofer position which way is the woofer facing? Towards the sofa?

Where you have it located right now in the corner might be what's making it sound boomy. What you might want to try, first, is aim the woofer towards the other wall near the sliding class door or just angle it towards the middle of the room. See if that helps. This way the woofer is not directly firing at you.

Another option is to place the subwoofer in the corner by the sliding glass door to see if that makes a different.

In other words, do not change the settings on the sub or the AVR for right now and continue to move or aim the subwoofer, while playing your cha cah music until you find the best overall sound for music.

[TampaBay]

(I am sorry for not reply quickly due to very busy at work for--year end things).

The new VTF-2, MK3 have a 12" woofer and it is facing down. Yes, it is facing down to the floor. There are 2 open ports and are facing to the rear (back wall) right above the control panel.

The wire i have is not long enough to move around or to the right side yet, I will get one at bestbuy and move it around later. Yes, my next HSU position is the right side by the speaker. (1/2 ft from the speaker and 1ft from the back wall ? )

I know, on my floor, it is walled in 3 corners and the 4th corner is sliding door to and main way open to the lanai, so very hard to find a good place for subwoofer.

[Bill Mitchell]

You were a little uncertain in your drawing whether the full length of your room is 35' or 40'. It may be that part of your sense of the bass being boomy is a room mode. If your total room length is 40', one would expect it to resonate around 16Hz. I have a long wall like that in my room, and it prompted me to configure the speaker to MaxOutput rather than MaxExtension (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=47669&postcount=25) to avoid feeding the low frequency resonance.

You might also find it fun to play with the REW software (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) to analyze the actual frequency response in your room. Besides the response curve, the software can show decay curves at various frequencies and you might find that the sound is ringing at a frequency that can be addressed through acoustic treatments. I'm still analyzing speaker placement in my room, and I've not yet reached the point of trying treatments.

[hometheatergeek]

The new VTF-2, MK3 have a 12" woofer and it is facing down. Yes, it is facing down to the floor. There are 2 open ports and are facing to the rear (back wall) right above the control panel.

My bad I forgot it was down firing sub. But I would still recommend turning the sub to see if it makes a difference until you get a longer cable.

Bill also has a good suggestion

Try the MaxOutput rather than MaxExtension to avoid feeding the low frequency resonance.

[TampaBay]

Finally I got 15ft cable and it sound better now...

I found the problem. somehow, my speakers distance was re-set to 15ft on all of them. L, R, and Sub.
I set the receiver to correct speakers distance and it sound much better now.
(I have L = 5ft, R=8ft, and sub 15ft).

One more last question. What are these below use for?
On my receiver, it has this:
Subwoofer: Normal/Rev (what is it?)

on the sub
Phase: 0/180 degree (what is it?)

thanks all for your help.

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi TampaBay,

Switching the phase from 0 to 180 degrees is the same as switching the internal speaker wire going to the driver terminals (ie. instead of red wire going to + terminal and black wire going to - terminal, there would be red wire going to - terminal and black wire going to + terminal). So instead of driver moving 'Out', 'In', 'Out', 'In' with signal, the driver would move 'In', 'Out', 'In', 'Out'. The general idea is that, in some cases, one will get a better interaction between main speakers and subwoofer by inverting the phase on the subwoofer, to keep the subwoofer in phase with the mains. As far as I know, the phase setting on the receiver should serve the same purpose as the phase invert switch on the sub.

Sincerely,

[TampaBay]

Thanks Pete.
I noticed when I switch the receiver between Normal and REV, the REV give louder bass; but when switch the Sub between 0 and 180 degrees, I don't hear any differences. (maybe when switch, I am right at the sub and can't tell much differences).

Anyway, I got the idea and will continue to make some more adjustment over the weekend.

Thanks.
btw, it would be nice if the HSU subwoofer that faced down have some kind of screen to protect the woofer. My wife use the sweep thing to clean the wood floor and she tried to sweep under neath it. :( I let her know; so she will not touch there anymore, but other people may accidentally torn the woofer...screen can reduce the chances.

[hometheatergeek]

Looks like your getting closer. Isn't this hobby fun?

[dnoyeb]

Since your all about music, you might want to plug that 2nd port and change the switch position accordingly.