2 subs vs. 1

[dormie1360]

I have a 3600 cu/ft dedicated home theater which is in desparate need of some base. I'm seriously considering VTF-3 MK3's based on Mag. reviews and comments over on the AVS forum. My plan going into this upgrade was to purchase 2 subs with my budget of $1600. I've read it's much easier to even out the peaks and nulls with two subs.

Would 2 VTF-3 MK3's be worth the investment or would it be overkill. Are there any negatives to having 2 subs. My room is about 19 x 23 with 8.5 ft ceilings. I don't mind paying for the extra sub if it improves the "sound".

I'm 90% movies, 10% music but would call my self a critical listener when it comes to sound regardless if it's music or movies. With that in mind I was also considering an investment in a Velodine SMS-1 to help with the freq. response.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John

[DNelms]

Two subs can be good. I have two subs and they are working great. However the new Hsu subs are so much better than my current pair it is hard to say that I would want more. The problem comes in with set up and calibration. There are a lot of tricks and different theories on how to set up two subs. In hindsight, I would just get the most sub for the money (read: highest quality) and stick with one.

But that is just one guy's opinion.

[dormie1360]

Thanks. I get different opinions on this. Some say two subs "smooth" out problems, others say they just double problems and are harder to calibrate.

Putting aside the issue of calibration for a minute, lets say I have the perfect room with the perfect sub placement. Given the size of my room, would a VTf-3 Mk3 fill up my room with plenty of headroom, or would a second add noticeable improvement.

Thanks,
John

[jwill242004]

My room is much larger than yours and my VTF3MK3 fills the room with plenty of headroom. IMO it would be overkill to have 2 of them your room. But who am I kidding, if I could afford it I would get another one.


I will say this, there are certain spots in my room where bass is much weaker than other spots. Having 2 subs might even this out and make every spot in the room equally impressive, this might be the benefit, besides the benefit of never having to dust anything because of all the Bass shaking it off.

[Ddavidson]

Not counting the full doubling of your headroom (when stacking them) there "can" be SQ rewards in the careful room placement of multiple subs. However rooms react so different that many people seem to have enough trouble finding one ideal location let alone understanding and dealing with the cancellation/reinforcement issues of multiple subs. If your a tweaker who has both the time and patience the benefits can be very good. For many others a parametric eq like the BFD is another route worth looking at for taming some freq peaks that your room is inducing.

Ddavidson

[dormie1360]

parametric eq like the BFD
I was reading about these yesterday. What's the difference between this and something like the SMS-1. Are they basically doing the same thing? Why would someone pick one over the other?

[chucklee]

Here is my experience with the two-sub option:

My first sub was a Hsu TN1220 cylinder, a terrific musical sub that digs very deeply very cleanly. It is placed in the right front corner of my front "soundstage" in my cathedral-ceilinged living room, and it was originally used in a 2.1 channel music-listening setup.

When I expanded my system to a home theater setup, I retained the TN1220, and have found it to be a terrific performer with that application, as well; the only problem I was noticing is, with the increased demands being placed on it (to reproduce the sub-80 Hz material in film soundtracks), I found myself more able to locate the bass material it was reproducing; it was more obviously coming from the subwoofer than when I had it set at 40 Hz for music-only (my mains have a very flat response down to 35 Hz).

My Anthem AVM20 HT processor\receiver allows for a lot of bass management, including a notch filter, and separate crossover choices for each speaker group; tweaking these settings still did not provide for a non-locatable bass response, so I bought a Hsu VTF3-MK2 to assist.

I place the VTF3 between my display and left main (I do not have a left front corner - it opens to a hallway), and followed instructions I found on one of the HT forums for calibrating (basically set the corner sub calibration, turn it off and set the new sub, resulting in a 4 dB jump in response; it can be tamed if you wish by reducing the overall bass output in the receiver setup).

This gained me two very important and favorable improvements:

First, it successfully de-localized the low bass content; I can no longer locate where the bass is coming from with most material I watch and listen to.

Secondly, it smoothed out the room response curve (I had a big spike in the 28 - 35 Hz region, and a dip somewhere in the low-60s, due to sonic inter-actions in the room)... the new sub "filled in the gaps", most likely from frequency cancellation, which can mess things up, but seemed to work to my advantage in this case.

A further advantage is that neither sub has to work as hard as one alone, which should (one would hope) serve to extend the lifetime of the drivers and amps.

Adding a second sub really helped me out in my room, with my equipment; I would venture to say that, if I did not have the 12-foot high cathedral ceiling, or the open areas to the right rear and left front of the room, I could have solved the issue with different placement of a single sub, and either of the two I own would have plenty of headroom for the task... but two did the trick for me.

[Ddavidson]

Why would someone pick one over the other?
Price, out of the box ease of use and the look of the units would be the main reasons.
The BFD is designed for Pro use the SMS-1 is designed for consumer use.

Both do the job and work well for bass duty.
Adding a second sub really helped me out in my room, with my equipment;
Chucklee yours is a perfect example of how a multiple sub situation can help.

Ddavidson

[Lwang]

Neither of the units does a true decay normalizing, which would utilize RT60 measurements instead of steady state tones.

[dormie1360]

I appreciate everyone's input. My wife wasn't sure if I was ever going to make up my mind. I finally decided to order 2 VTF3-Mk3's and a SMS-1. Subs are suppose to be here on Friday. Should be an interesting weekend.


John

[dormie1360]

I posted this in a thread over at AVS.

Just some final thoughts. I think some other threads will do a better job of reviewing the VTF3.3 than I can. I've upgraded various audio components over the years, however I'd have to say this sub has given me the largest improvement in my total sound experience than anything else that I've done in my HT. With music I hear things I haven't heard before and with movies, I want to watch most of my 500 movies over again.

I did get two subs, and as was suggested on another thread, two subs can improve sound but they can also make it worse. Some kind of calibration tool such as a SMS-1 or a BFD can be invaluable. One thing that I did do with two VTF3.3's that gave me good results is run one full extension and the other in max output.

I definitely have a better appreciation of the importance of having a dialed in, quality sub in your HT or music room.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the VTF3.3's.


John

[Ddavidson]

I posted this in a thread over at AVS.



Anyway, I'm very happy with the VTF3.3's.


John

The VTF3s are one of the best balanced performance subwoofers that you can buy so its no wonder your very happy.

Enjoy.

Ddavidson