Poll: Stf-3 @ 22Hz or 18Hz?

[Ddavidson]

As we have come to know the Stf-3 basically is set-up as single tuning frequency version of the very popular and excellent Vtf-3.

I was interested in seeing if people had the choice what potential buyers would prefer the Stf-3 to be set as?

Maximum Output Mode: 22Hz
Deep Bass Mode: 18Hz

The other relative question is would the choice sway your buying i.e. yes or no.
I have my opinion which is of course the way I run my Vtf-3 - i.e. Deep Bass mode 18Hz.I am curious as to people opinions and if having it at 18Hz it would sway people into buying an Stf-3?

Ddavidson

[mr_bill]

Give me 18hz or 20 hz or even 22hz, but NOT 25hz.
The lower the better, but definitely lower than 25hz. My mains do that, albeit at a lower volume than necessary (FM curve).
Bill

[Lwang]

I would opt for 20hz, since that is where full range bass is often considered to reach.

But by specifying +/-2dB instead of the +/-3dB, Hsu is only putting themself at a disadvantage because they limit their low end reach.

But since the HT crowd dominates the market, Hsu has to have the ability to play loud also. Even so, 25hz seem to only meet the THX standard, not exceed it.

[DavidD]

If given a choice, I'll go with the better extensions, as long as I can get reasonable output. In my living situation, I can't play it tremendously loud anyway. My concern about the current specs for the STF-3 is that there is little clear reason to purchase it over the STF-2. I was reaching for my wallet at the 22Hz extension, even though I would rather have more. With "only" a 25Hz extension, why would I buy it? If the STF-2 is generally equivalent to the VTF-2, that would be loud enough. This really seems to limit the potential market.

I do, however, appreciate the honesty in advertising what it really does. I'm disappointed in that result, though.

[Ddavidson]

Pretty much what I thought so far.Sasha mentioned in another thread that this 25Hz limit that is imposed on the Stf-3 may only be limited the first production run and that they may change it.I guess we can but voice a preference for Hsu to consider for future batch runs.

I know of very few people who run their Vtf-3 in the 22Hz max output mode as they all prefer leaving their Vtf-3's permanently in the 18Hz max extension mode.Perhaps also by keeping it limited to 25Hz its just a protection method so as not to cause the much more expensive Vtf-3 ($240) sales to slow right down?I think the Stf-3 limitation is a bad mistake as the Vtf really just needs to offer better value by having some more optional finishes and extra features such as an onboard eq system to justify the price difference.I do not think the Stf-3 should be limited in extension.It at least should be !8Hz-20Hz +/-2dB.That suits the 12" driven Hsu much better than 25Hz which is covered by the Stf-2 and Vtf-2.

Ddavidson

[mendes9]

The more I hear about it, the more I'm becoming concerned about the STF line.. IT's just isn't looking applealing anymore.. The VTF3 is true and tried great sub... It's either wait for the VTF3 stock.. or go get an SVS.

[DavidD]

I don't have any concern about the STF line in general. The STF-1 and STF-2 seem to be great values. My only concern is with the STF-3. Even there, I'm willing to see what the final result turns out to be. Also, I'm intrigued by the upgrades that appear to be coming on the VTF-3. I wonder what they are.

[Lwang]

I don't think one has to worry too much that the STF subs are not going to reach deep enough.

Some measurements of VTF-3 in max output mode indicates that there is still strong bass down to 20hz.

Some excerpts from VTF-3 reviews:

"What I found surprising was that the response stayed flat between 20 and 26 Hz, with no indication of a rolloff at 20 Hz, and less overall frequency-response variation from 20 to 100 Hz."

"Maximum Output mode resulted in more even response and still-excellent low-end extension, even down to 16 Hz. This is better than Hsu Research claims"

Even the VTF-2 that is touted to go down only to 25hz has been measured to go down much deeper:

The summed nearfield response of the woofer and vent was within ±1.5 dB from 100 Hz all the way down to 22 Hz.

So if Hsu keeps his ultra-conversative specs in the new subs, we will be sure that they will reach deeper than what is even specified. (I might not agree with Hsu on their marketing tactics when they give conservative numbers, while everybody else is stretching or outright making false specs, especially in such a low end market. I don't think it is the budget audiophiles that might want some low end to their Spica TC-50s. They are low end HT people who are upgrading from subs that are so evasive on their spec to make them seem much more capalble than they really are.)

Hsu is more than honest with their spec while other mfg cheat and lie in their numbers to get their freq resp to as low as possible. They lie some more when some published numbers differ from what they have been lying about or make up other lies to perpetuate some false perceptions that might make their product more than what it is. And they keep on lying to make some excuse as to why their sub might have sounded inferior, by saying it touting something they might have dug up, but w/o any knowledge of what it means.

All these lies has been repeated so many times that owners of these subs repeat the lies as if it is the truth (just look at what's happening now in the US).

[Ddavidson]

I don't think one has to worry too much that the STF subs are not going to reach deep enough.

Some measurements of VTF-3 in max output mode indicates that there is still strong bass down to 20hz.

Of course the Stf-3 will have strong bass to 20Hz. But the fixed internal re-eq and the porting means the frequency curve of the Stf-3 will actually be designed to be flat to 25Hz. The Stf-3 will not be optimal at 20Hz and as it will be ?dB down compared to 25Hz and above. I have no doubt that the Stf-3 will still kick serious butt as Hsu Research subwoofers have been doing in the value vs performance stakes (for many years). As Sasha mentioned the Vtf-3 is not going anywhere so people can choose to pay $610 for the fixed tuning Stf-3 or $849 for the variable tuning Vtf-3. I just would like to see the Stf-3 keep the Hsu tradition of accurate ratings but I would like to see Hsu make it go flat to at least 20Hz (or lower). I feel it would give Hsu a big sales advantage over other $600 subwoofers. I am sure people who have the Vtf-3 know what an easy choice it would be to purchase a sub with the performance and low end extension of the Vtf-3, except with the Stf-3 you only get charged a paltry $610.

All interested people can do is to let Dr Hsu know directly what you think about getting the Stf-3 to do this. I really think the Stf-3 could be the market killer if the curve was flat to 20Hz (or below).


Ddavidson

[Lwang]

It comes down to lower extension or more SPL. Given that at these cost, the majority of the people buying it will be low end HT owners instead of extremely low budget audiophiles, they opted to cater to the masses.

Maybe there should be two models, HO (high output) and BX (bass extension). You'll recoup the cost of requiring a slightly different amp design by the less labor that involved in the single ported BX model.

[Ddavidson]

It comes down to lower extension or more SPL. Given that at these cost, the majority of the people buying it will be low end HT owners instead of extremely low budget audiophiles, they opted to cater to the masses.

The Stf series obviously is priced very well and will not be the Hsu choice for those with bigger budgets. From my point of view I thing all Hsu subwoofers can pretty much play more than loud enough (spl) and the trade off for extension is less an evil than having more spl. Unfortunately you have other subwoofer manufacturers who heavily promote the Spl as the be all end all and so Hsu are probably dammed if they do or dammed if they do not.

Two versions sounds like an option. I guess the trade off maybe that it could confuse beginners. I guess I have an advantage because I just need to try my Vtf-3 in both modes. It soon tells me what mode I prefer. No matter what I have absolutely no doubt that the Stf-3 will show all the usual Hsu Research traint of excellent bass reproduction for the money.

Ddavidson

[Todd B.]

What frequency would you prefer the STF-3 to be set at?

18 Hz


Would the choice of frequency setting sway your decision to buy?

Yes

[Harmon]

What frequency would you prefer the STF-3 to be set at?

18 Hz, but I could live with 20 Hz if Hsu wants to differentiate it from the VTF-3


Would the choice of frequency setting sway your decision to buy?

Yes, definitely. I had been planning on buying a STF-3 when they are released, but am now more inclined to either go with the cheaper STF-2 or splurge on a VTF-3. It seems the only advantage the STF-3 will have over the STF/VTF-2 is more SPL's. That's not my main concern.

[EdS]

I would like to see the STF-3 setup for max extension. I'm looking for a sub that is more or less flat to 20Hz, and the VTF-3 is a bit more $$ than I'd like to spend. Since I can't be sure (until test results or reviews are published) what the actual response of the STF-3 will be in max output, I'll probably put my name on the waiting list for a B-Stock VTF-3, not a bad deal for about $680, which is only about $80 more than a STF-3.

[diad98]

frequency: 18hz

Would the choice of frequency setting sway your decision to buy?
yes


I guess the issue of 25hz is due to the Bash amplifier.

Given the same enclosure, the Bash amplifier just can't provide the same current curve as VTF-3's custom amplifier(i.e. higher current in lower freq).
And the result is more spl above 25hz but it drops steeper than VTF-3.

My better hope now is the new VTF-3 and is it too greedy to get a B-stock down-firing version VTF-3 as my Christmas gift?

[mendes9]

I'm with you..

BY the way, what's the benefit of downfiring vs. front firing?

[Michael Bain]

There's not much of a difference, all else equal. Hsu feels that the bass from the downfiring units are a tad less localizable than frontfiring, although I would imagine that most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference. The critical part is implementation. There are some very good examples of both front firing (Aerial Acoustics) as well as down firing (Audio Concepts Inc) subwoofers.