Mid-bass Module or add the turbo to my VTF3-MKII?

[n737nc]

Another question...

Looking to take the next step with my HT setup now that I've got my sub set up properly. Wondering which direction I should go. Here are a list of my speakers...

HTD Level 3 towers up front 30 Hz - 40 kHz 200w@8ohms
HTD Level 3 center channel 45 Hz - 40 kHz 150w@8ohms
HTD Level 3 bookshelf's in the rear 47 Hz - 40 kHz 120w@8ohms
HSU VTF3-MKII sub

Powered by a Sherwood P-965 and an ATI-1505 amp

I'm curious if I should add the turbo to my exsisting sub, or go for the MBM-12 Mid bass Module? I'm really looking for just better all around sound quality, so I'm leaning to get the mid bass module.

Am I on the right track here or should I be going in another direction? Is the Mid Bass Module going to do that much for me?

[Matt34]

Can you do a FR sweep of your setup? If anything the MBM will lighten the load on the VTF3/2 by x'over it at 50hz.

I personally would try room treatments first and then go from there.

[Pete_Hsu]

n7, do you have a place to keep the MBM nearfield and the VTF-3 farfield (front corner)? If so, I would probably recommend going that route! Note that current Hsu owners should be able to get a $100 discount on MBM-12.

[cyberbri]

Add room treatments and a peq (Behringer Feedback Destroyer, AV123 R-DES, or Velodyne SMS-1). Flatten out your bass response and turn up the sub. There's your slam. If you still need more, add another sub or MBM.

[n737nc]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I do not know how to do a FR sweep of my setup.
I'll look into the room treatments. They seem fairly affordable.


Thanks!
Nick

[cyberbri]

Do you have an SPL meter? All you need to do the basic evaluation is the Avia setup disc. There are sweep tones that go from a high frequency (say 100hz or 200hz) to a low frequency (20Hz). With the meter set to FAST, tou monitor the SPL level as the frequency goes down (current frequency readout is on the TV screen). You'll notice it go up and down quite a lot. If you have a place where there is more than say a 6-10dB rise or drop, difference between peak/min, then the room could use some work acoustically and you could also stand to benefit a lot from an eq.

People spend 100s, 1000s, on speakers, amps, receivers, and subs, but don't bother to address the biggest speaker of all - the room. Room treatments provide a very noticeable improvement for the money, much more than spending hundreds on fancy cables or even upgrading to a receiver with a few more watts or a sub with a few more Hz extension.
And unless your room is acoustically ideal, an eq is the only way to get flat bass response from the sub in your room. Without this, your equipment isn't living up to its potential.

[Splotto]

Do you have an SPL meter? All you need to do the basic evaluation is the Avia setup disc. There are sweep tones that go from a high frequency (say 100hz or 200hz) to a low frequency (20Hz). With the meter set to FAST, tou monitor the SPL level as the frequency goes down (current frequency readout is on the TV screen). You'll notice it go up and down quite a lot. If you have a place where there is more than say a 6-10dB rise or drop, difference between peak/min, then the room could use some work acoustically and you could also stand to benefit a lot from an eq.

People spend 100s, 1000s, on speakers, amps, receivers, and subs, but don't bother to address the biggest speaker of all - the room. Room treatments provide a very noticeable improvement for the money, much more than spending hundreds on fancy cables or even upgrading to a receiver with a few more watts or a sub with a few more Hz extension.
And unless your room is acoustically ideal, an eq is the only way to get flat bass response from the sub in your room. Without this, your equipment isn't living up to its potential.

Hello:

How would you compare the AutoEQ on the Denon receivers with the method described above? Are they mutually exclusive or does the AutoEQ accomplish the same results?

Splotto

[coachstahly]

I have a rather noticeable gap between 50-60 hz. I have two questions for you.
1) By work, I'm assuming you mean treatments among other things. What would help this range (if there's anything frequency specific) in order to make it less pronounced? We have no window treatments at this time with 3 large glass areas in the room. One 3 ft window in the front right corner of the room and 2 5 ft. glass patio doors on the rear wall corners.
2) Would the MBM help solve this problem in this range ("mid" bass module)?

[cyberbri]

I have a rather noticeable gap between 50-60 hz. I have two questions for you.
1) By work, I'm assuming you mean treatments among other things. What would help this range (if there's anything frequency specific) in order to make it less pronounced? We have no window treatments at this time with 3 large glass areas in the room. One 3 ft window in the front right corner of the room and 2 5 ft. glass patio doors on the rear wall corners.
2) Would the MBM help solve this problem in this range ("mid" bass module)?



The gap could be a space between two peaks, not necessarily a "null" from cancellation.

An eq can tame the peaks and bring all of the frequencies into check.

What bass traps do is clean up the bass, get rid ringing and boominess, so when you hear big bass you're hearing the sub itself, not the sub and then booming or ringing in the room after it. The more traps the better. Bass traps go in corners, where two~three walls meet/intersect. Hence some people putting panels or making soffits that go across wall/ceiling intersections as well as room corners.

As an example, have you seen The Haunting DTS, or at least the scene with the "knocking"? This scene has some of the biggest bass in a soundtrack. Normally the bass in this scene is scary because you are scared for your sub. The whole room reverberates. With trapping and eq, you hear the bass itself, without the booming and ringing in the room, and you can listen to the detail in the bass without being distracted by fearing for your sub's life.

Bass traps mainly work above 100Hz, but with enough and thick enough treatments, it can get down to below 100hz. See my attached graph, measurements of before (red) and after (blue) adding 2 4" thick 2'x4' panels
in each front corner.

In my situation, looking at the graph, I also used an eq to reduce the peaks. With peaks like that, calibrating the subwoofer means calibration is set to the levels of those peaks. So when you are listening to music or movies, bass that falls in the quieter spots isn't nearly as noticeable. Go up or down 6-10dB to double or half the perceived volume. The second attached graph shows my post-eq results. By having all of those frequencies play at the same volume, I can turn up the sub and get slam from every frequency, not just half of them.

An MBM could work to help that 50-60Hz section of your response, if you are able to place it in a spot that produces different frequency response in that area. If you have the MBM working the 50-80Hz range, you'd experiment with placement to find where it provides the flattest possible response in that area.

I'm sure I'd notice an improvement over my VTF-3 Mk2 if I had an MBM, but honestly, with bass traps an an eq, even eq'd even with the speakers for music and 2~3dB hot for movies, I get PLENTY of slam at all bass frequencies.


Treating the windows with curtains or something would help with side reflections of higher frequencies. Sound bouncing off side walls, windows, etc. comes back and "smears" the sound, so you are hearing sound from the speakers plus the reflected sound off the sides. This has a "combing" effect. Treating the sides and reducing the reflected sound means you hear more of the speakers themselves, which improves imaging, widens the soundstage, etc.

Hope that answers your questions. :D

-Brian

(both graphs show response of sub, VTF-3 Mk2, and left/right mains (Ascend 340SEs) combined -- note that the first graph goes to 500hz, and the second one only to 200hz)

[will95]

Brian,

What product do you use for your EQ?

-Mike

[cyberbri]

Brian,

What product do you use for your EQ?

-Mike


Behringer Feedback Destroyer 1124, $100 ($110 shipped).
Using REW (Room EQ Wizard), free for the computer, greatly aids evaluating and setting it up. Sweeps take about 10 seconds so you can tweak to your heart's content.