Requesting a little help, new owner of VTF-2 MK3

[taylor34]

Hello--

Trying to get my home theater stuff setup, and wasn't exactly sure how to coordinate my sub with the rest of my speakers and receiver (denon 3808ci, axiom m80's as fronts, qs8 surrounds). Basically, if 99% of my use is going to be home theater, how should I setup the sub? Like:

plug in or out?
crossover frequency?
that in/out switch (don't have the sub in front of me, I thought there was a switch like that on the back)
volume level (this is probably determined by the receiver cal though)
LFE to just the sub, or mains + sub?

Honestly I was hoping that it was going to be bass that I could feel in my chest but it doesn't seem quite powerful enough to do that without sounding bad. However, I totally could have it setup wrong as well.

Thanks!

[spikeitaudi]

Use the Denon crossover and set it 80hz for the crossover and set your mains to small. Set the crossover in back of the sub switch to out. This will let the Denon do all the crossover.

Volume level on the sub itself set to 10 or 11 oclock position.

And connect the Sub to the Denon Reciever using only LFE.

Then RERUN Audyssey. Make sure you have the mains set to small.

Try that and let us know how that works out. Also, what are the dimensions of the room. I have the set sub in a 4500 Cubic room and I fell thumping bass in my chest. I can even feel the sub on the second floor.

[kinggimp]

Use the Denon crossover and set it 80hz for the crossover and set your mains to small. Set the crossover in back of the sub switch to out. This will let the Denon do all the crossover.

Volume level on the sub itself set to 10 or 11 oclock position.

And connect the Sub to the Denon Reciever using only LFE.

Then RERUN Audyssey. Make sure you have the mains set to small.

Try that and let us know how that works out. Also, what are the dimensions of the room. I have the set sub in a 4500 Cubic room and I fell thumping bass in my chest. I can even feel the sub on the second floor.
Do you run your sub in maximum output or maximum extension? Also do you run your sub hot to achieve chest pounding bass? How loud do you have your receiver for that kind of bass. The reason I ask is because I don't feel it in my chest as you describe. It sounds very good but doesn't hit me in the chest all that much. Maybe my room causes the midbass to drop off.

[taylor34]

Use the Denon crossover and set it 80hz for the crossover and set your mains to small. Set the crossover in back of the sub switch to out. This will let the Denon do all the crossover.

Volume level on the sub itself set to 10 or 11 oclock position.

And connect the Sub to the Denon Reciever using only LFE.

Then RERUN Audyssey. Make sure you have the mains set to small.

Try that and let us know how that works out. Also, what are the dimensions of the room. I have the set sub in a 4500 Cubic room and I fell thumping bass in my chest. I can even feel the sub on the second floor.

My room is 13' x 21' x 9'. I'll give your settings a try, I haven't even ran Audyssey yet--I was just doing a base setup of 2 mains and the sub, but when I turned the sub up past 1/2 volume it started sounding bad (which is why I didn't think I'd be able to get chest pounding bass). I'll give it a shot, thanks!

[spikeitaudi]

Do you run your sub in maximum output or maximum extension? Also do you run your sub hot to achieve chest pounding bass? How loud do you have your receiver for that kind of bass. The reason I ask is because I don't feel it in my chest as you describe. It sounds very good but doesn't hit me in the chest all that much. Maybe my room causes the midbass to drop off.

If you are asking me which I think you are I have it set to Maximum Extension. When you mean hot I am assuming turning it all the way up? No. I have it set at the 10 oclock position which is more then enough for me.

What is the size of your room? Also, everybody has different opinions of punch of bass.

[spikeitaudi]

My room is 13' x 21' x 9'. I'll give your settings a try, I haven't even ran Audyssey yet--I was just doing a base setup of 2 mains and the sub, but when I turned the sub up past 1/2 volume it started sounding bad (which is why I didn't think I'd be able to get chest pounding bass). I'll give it a shot, thanks!


Make sure you run the audyssey and you set the fronts to small. That should make a HUGE difference.

[kinggimp]

If you are asking me which I think you are I have it set to Maximum Extension. When you mean hot I am assuming turning it all the way up? No. I have it set at the 10 oclock position which is more then enough for me.

What is the size of your room? Also, everybody has different opinions of punch of bass.
When I asked if you run your sub hot I meant is the sub the same volume as your other speakers or is it turned up a few decibels higher. Hot means the sub is louder than your mains. My room is about 1800 cubic feet. The volume on my sub is at 9:00.

[spikeitaudi]

When I asked if you run your sub hot I meant is the sub the same volume as your other speakers or is it turned up a few decibels higher. Hot means the sub is louder than your mains. My room is about 1800 cubic feet. The volume on my sub is at 9:00.

Thanks for the clarification. On my Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH after running MCACC the sub is set at -3 on the reciever. And I am right aroung 10:00.

[Pete_Hsu]

Do you run your sub in maximum output or maximum extension? Also do you run your sub hot to achieve chest pounding bass? How loud do you have your receiver for that kind of bass. The reason I ask is because I don't feel it in my chest as you describe. It sounds very good but doesn't hit me in the chest all that much. Maybe my room causes the midbass to drop off.

Andrew, could you remind me about your room dimensions (HxWxD, including openings to other areas), the location of the listening position, and the location of the subwoofer?

Usually the kick in the chest sensation is mid-bass (~ 50-80Hz), which is often best reproduced with the subwoofer in the nearfield.

Sincerely,

[kmitchell]

or by adding an MBM-12 nearfield.

But first you have to get your mains and sub calibrated. For my system with a Denon 4308CI I ran Audyssey first and then a calibrated the mains and sub. If you run Audyssey after your calibration is set it will throw your system out of calibration.

Ken

[kinggimp]

Andrew, could you remind me about your room dimensions (HxWxD, including openings to other areas), the location of the listening position, and the location of the subwoofer?

Usually the kick in the chest sensation is mid-bass (~ 50-80Hz), which is often best reproduced with the subwoofer in the nearfield.

Sincerely,
I am including a drawing of my listening area. I changed a few things about my listening area since I made the drawing. One I've upgraded my sub to a vtf-2 mk-3. Secondly I'm now have my couch where my chair used to be. The couch is now directly across from center. In relation to where I sit the sub is in the front left corner as you see in the drawing. My main listening area is 1224 cubic feet. The room opens up into a small kitchen and dining area 10s X 20 or about 1600 cubic feet. So about 2824 cubic feet total. In the next few days I will probably take measurements to see if there are any valleys in the frequency response in the midbass or otherwise.

[kinggimp]

Pete,
I did some measurements with the test tones on the CD that came with the subwoofer. The deep bass frequencies have peaks but the midbass is quite a bit lower. The measurements I took were after audyssy was run. Sometime this week I want to move the sub nearfield and do measurements from that position. I have included the measurements for you below. The sub is crossed over at 80 so the last measurement is of the main speakers.

16 Hz 86 Db
20 Hz - 84 Db
25 Hz - 82 Db
31.5 Hz - 81 Db
40 Hz - 81 Db
50 Hz - 75 Db
63 Hz - 75 Db
80 Hz - 77 Db
100 Hz - 84 Db

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi Andrew,

What is happening now is that the subwoofer is in the farfield corner from your main listening position, which is good for deep bass but not ideal for mid-bass.

It is fine to try placing the subwoofer closer to your listening positioning, but deep bass may not be as good, and the true subwoofer will be very close to the opening behind you.

The ideal thing to do would be to add an MBM-12 for a two-way subwoofer setup.

For now, you may want to try running the subwoofer in the overdamped mode (ie. one port plugged on the back of the unit, and bass extension switch set to the '2 port open' mode). This will give you a less deep bass heavy sound I think.

Sincerely,

[Bill Mitchell]

Andrew, I tried Pete's suggestion of overdamped mode, and it worked well for me when combined with Audyssey in a situation like yours. I posted graphs (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpost.php?p=55017&postcount=32) in the MaxExtension poll thread (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?p=55017#post55017).

[taylor34]

Btw, ran the denon setup per your suggestions above, it now sounds way better. Actually I had to turn down the bass a little, the Denon set it up to be way too overpowering for it's current position. But the effect is great now--no chest thumping, but I can 'feel' the bass in the chairs, which is what I wanted. Thanks for everyone's help--I may have more questions later once I rearrange my room to where everything will be permanently. Thanks

[spikeitaudi]

Glad to hear it helped. Happy listening. :):)

[kinggimp]

Pete,

Running the subwoofer in the overdamped mode seemed to solve my problem. This mode dropped the peaks at 16, 20, and 25 down to a normal level. This allows me to increase the volume of the sub to equal the mains without the deep bass becoming overbearing. The sub now has the punch in the midbass that I was missing. I will include the measurements below for the overdamped mode. Thanks for the advice that helped solve my problem.

16 Hz 76 Db
20 Hz - 75 Db
25 Hz - 77 Db
31.5 Hz - 80 Db
40 Hz - 80 Db
50 Hz - 75 Db
63 Hz - 77 Db
80 Hz - 78 Db
100 Hz - 84 Db

[Pete_Hsu]

I'm so happy to hear that Andrew, glad that it worked out for you!

And same to you Taylor, good to hear that things are sounding much better now :)

Sincerely,