Group buy VTF-3 or STF-3, San Jose

[CT2]

I'm thinking since we have to pay tax(California), maybe we should
group buy(6 or more), HSU VTF-3 or upcoming STF-3 are as good as
SVS. Anybody in San Jose area wants to join in?

CT2

[PSR12]

I am very interested in STF-3 or STF-2 sign me inn.

[Michael Bain]

I'm thinking since we have to pay tax(California), maybe we should
group buy(6 or more), HSU VTF-3 or upcoming STF-3 are as good as
SVS. Anybody in San Jose area wants to join in?

You should expect the Hsu subwoofers to sound better than SVS, in accordance with what most people have experienced when comparing the two brands. There was a long thread earlier highlighting some of the differences between the two brands. When you focus on the facts and technicalities and customer observations, Hsu comes out on top in my very humble opinion.

With group buys, do not forget that they all need to be shipped to the same address. Other than that, good idea.

[Ddavidson]

Although I am not in San Jose I really think this forum should start a special group buy area so people can work together to get a discount and join the Hsu owners club. Group buys on this forum should be encouraged after all this forum is all about Hsu and its customers.
I'm thinking since we have to pay tax(California)
Its a real bummer having to pay tax on Hsu purchaces just because we choose to live in California. But if you get together a group buy of six you are at least saving 15% which more than covers tax.

Volume Discounts:
If ordering in quantities of 6 or more directly from Hsu Research, we offer a discount below the regular MSRP price, typically 15%. This discount applies to most of our products, including the VTF-2 and VTF-3. Invite associates, friends and family to sign up by a certain date. You must place your order using a single payment to a single shipping address. That last part is important. We only offer volume discounts to customers using a single payment and single shipping address. For credit card orders, the shipping and billing address must be the same. Please call us if you would like more information on this service.

Ddavidson

[italia]

Count me in. Maybe a group buy with local buyers such as myself that could just go pick them up.

[diad98]

I live in west San Jose and am interested in VTF3 & STF3 but need to wait for the detail of new versions before making a decision.

[CT2]

Great! We have four now, two more to go...
PSR12, Italia, Diad98, check your PM.
Michael, I put SVS here just to avoid another fight from SVS
lovers, you know I'm buying Hsu ;)

CT2

[Sasha_G]

Group buys are very welcome. Remember, all payment must be sent by one person, and all units must be shipped to one location.

[CT2]

Sasha,
I remember you have only one VTF-2, want an upgrade with us?:p
Sasha, don't you think getting 6 people buying same sub($850)
in same area is a little challenge? I believe 3 or 4 are good numbers:D

Can't wait to know more about STF-3

CT2

[Michael Bain]

LOL I knew it!

If you get Sasha Goodman and Dr. Hsu's kid, you can do the group buy as soon as possible! :D

[Fatcat]

Count me in, though I'm not sure which one (VTF-3 or STF-3) I'm going to get.

Thanks

[CT2]

Fatcat,

I sent a PM to you. Now we got 5, one more to go!!!

CT2

[Chris A H]

I'm in Fremont and might be interested. Was going to get an STF-2. I'm new to the group buy thing, but I assume that the warranty transfers from the one person on the receipt to the actual owners of the individual units? More details please...

[CT2]

We are all new to this too.
Sasha, can you answer this?

CT2

[Chris A H]

The Hsu front page has new dates:

November 25, 2003 - Ventriloquist & STF-2 Estimated Release

December 21, 2003 - VTF-3 MK 2, STF-1, STF-3 Estimated Arrival

A group buy for anything other than the STF-2 will have to wait a while...

[CT2]

Chris,

Can you PM me or open your pm so we can exchange email
address?

Thanks,
CT2

[CT2]

Dec 21? Imaging how many busniess Hsu may lose!
From business point of view, VTF-3, STF-3 should have a
much higher priority, what is going on here?

[Michael Bain]

Bummer. I hope Hsu knows that most people want these before the christmas holidays.

On the bright side, vtf-3 price has been reduced to 799 bucks. More performance, better looks, reduced price. Not too shabby.

[diad98]

Why VTF-3 MK2 only goes to 20HZ instead of 18HZ, is there anything to do with the subsonic filter?

[Michael Bain]

No it is because it uses a different amp. That is also preliminary spec, almost always conservative by Hsu. After the product gets reviewed, Hsu might adjust the spec, so do not be surprised if it is better frequency response than stated in the beginning.

[Sasha_G]

There are so many questions, and I'm about to go out for dinner this Friday night so I'll do my best. The girlfriend will not be happy if I'm late.

1) The warranty is transferable, so it will work for the group buys,
2) Yes, we don't like not having the STF-3, VTF-3, and STF-1 when we said we would. Because we don't have the VTF-3s in, and the STF-3 is taking longer, we've kept the Rosewood VTF-3R on sale.
3) It is called the VTF-3 MK2 because it will have several upgrades, including a:
a. 350 Watt Bash amp instead of a 250 watt class A/B
b. real piano black finish that takes a week to make, instead of a painted finish,
c. cost of $799 factory direct, instead of $849
d. metal spiked feet instead of plastic feet
e. plexiglass logo that lights up when the subwoofer is on, isntead of removable logo
f. the port tuning is the same, it is just the spec that got more conservative.

The bad news is that shipping prices will be back in effect after they are released.

To make up for the delays, we will be offering free shipping on preorders. Next week we will be taking credit card info on preorders. This can be done through the website later in the week, or via phone at the beginning of the week.

[CT2]

Diad98 and FatCat,

Who is Am? One of you Emailed me, the other not. We have got Six and we need to work out a plan. You heard the man(Sasha), we can preorder next week, no shipping cost.

CT2

[CT2]

Diad98,

You got PM ;)

CT2

[CT2]

Sasha,

In order to move forward our group buy, we need to confirm it's
ok to have mixed order, like a few STF2, a few VTF3. Also, where
they be shipped seperately?
For VTF-3 MKII, although it's spec said 20Hz, the tunning point is actually same as current VTF-3(18Hz), is this correct?

Thanks,
CT2

[Sam_JO]

I am new to this gorup, i had almost made a descision to buy a SVS 20-39 Pci but after reading some posts here, i want to find more details.
I Live isn sunnyvale (bay area) and am interested in a group buy for
1> STF-3
or
2> HSU TN-1220HO with 250
or
3> VTF-3

not decided on any particluar one. I will be visiting HSU headquarters next weekend and will take final descision after that.
how much do we save in this group buy effort?

excuse me for Lots of Questions:o

[Michael Bain]

Group buy is 15% discount.

[YeeDude]

I live in S.F. and may be interested in joining this group purchase as well once all of the details have been hammered out. FWIW, I'm interested in one of the new VTF-3 MK2's.

Thanks.

[CT2]

YeeDude,

I may also go with new VTF-3. If you all buy VTF-3,
my credit card company is going to call me ;)
PM me with your email address so we can have you updated.
We may take action this week.

CT2

[Sasha_G]

IMPORTANT UPDATE REGARDING GROUP BUY:

It has come to our attention that Hsu Research has a strict contract with some of our larger dealers about the upcoming STF and Ventriloquist lines. We are not allowed to sell below the everyday low price on these items, and neither are they. Unfortunately, this means we can't offer a group buy on our new products. It would be perceived as trying to find a loophole in the contract at an early stage, and we would not want to do that with our new dealers.

The good news is that any of our existing products: the VTF-2, and the TN series included, are elegible for a group buy. The VTF-3R is already around a group buy discount.

I know that some of you are going to be dissapointed about this. What we can do is include some of our new pro-grade interconnects with the upcoming lines, or Banana plugs for those who order the Ventriloquist.

[Chris A H]

Or how 'bout you waive the sales tax for us CA folks? That keeps the selling price intact...

[CT2]

Or is there a dealer(seems there are a few) who is outside
CA and will charge same price as factory direct sale?

Or, can you(Hsu) moves out of California? :D

I'm so so dispointed! Sorry all others, seems the deal is gone!
:mad:

CT2

[Sasha_G]

CT2,

Interesting proposition about the sales tax. Seeing that everyone is so interested, I will see what can be done.

[Sasha_G]

We can waive the sales tax this way and offer free shipping on the preorders, but this will have to be the last time we do a group buy that includes the new products. Just so you know I'm serious, I have already removed that Group Buy paragraph from our website. But, if you guys still want to go ahead and do it this time, go ahead. Just know we will be unable to ever go below the minimum everyday price.

Our upcoming philosophy is to offer low prices everyday, so you are already getting the lowest price possible.

[diad98]

How about throw in 5 yr electronic warranty free for group buys?

[Sasha_G]

How about throw in 5 yr electronic warranty free for group buys?

I talked with Dr. Hsu and he will not go for the inclusion of the extended warranty in the price.

Anyhow, I'm putting up some pictures of the STF-2, the latest line to carry on the HSU tradition, for those that want to get the waived sales tax on this once only group buy:

[Sasha_G]

10 inch woofer with rubber surround, poly-cotton spider, and embedded plexiglass logo.

[Sasha_G]

Port and amp on the back

[Sasha_G]

port

[Sasha_G]

amp

[CT2]

Nice looking Sub! Thanks Sasha!
will that embedded plexiglass logo light up as VTF-3 MKII?
Picture of STF-3 and VTF-3 MKII, PLEASE???

CT2

[Michael Bain]

Does the logo literally light up via eletrical signal or just glow in the dark?

How about setting up a sticky thread with these pictures and pictures of the other new products

I imagine that you will post VTF-3 MKII, STF-3, and STF-1 pictures later when the products get closer to launch. Sounds reasonable to me, do not want others to get a jump start on copying the design!

[CT2]

Closer look yields 2 hole power cord: no ground loop, no Hmmm,
also 120V 2A, so it's 150W-200W Amp, no heat sink.
Bigger clearence between drive and ground than VTF-3R.

CT2

[Lwang]

I thought the STF-2 has 2 port like the VTF-2? Or does it have one big port?

I assume the amp is around 200w, giving what was said 80% efficiency of the BASH amp.

[CT2]

Lwamg,

STFs should all have only 1 port, that's what "S" stands for.

CT2

[Lwang]

Originally posted by CT2
STFs should all have only 1 port, that's what "S" stands for.

CT2

The STF-3 has 2 port.

We assume that the STF-2 is a VTF-2 in max-output mode, which is when both ports are open. I presume they consolidated the 2 3" port into one 4".

[cschang]

The STF-2 is basically a VTF-2 in max-extension...not max output, hence, one port.

STF stands for single tuned freq.

[Sasha_G]

Nice looking Sub!
Thanks! I like it also, but am biased ;)

Does the logo literally light up via eletrical signal or just glow in the dark?

That the VTF-3 Mk 2 that has the logo that lights up. It lights up when it is turned on, either in the 'On' position or when it is switched on automatical in 'Auto-on.' The STFs don't have that, just plain plexiglass without the internal LED.

I assume the amp is around 200w
Lwang, you assume right. It is a 200 watt RMS amp.

STFs should all have only 1 port, that's what "S" stands for.
Yes, S stands for single tuning. In the case of the STF-2, it is tuned like the VTF-2 in max extension mode, hense one port open.

However, with the STF-3, it is tuned like the VTF-3 in max OUTPUT mode, hense that will have two ports.

The extra circuitry to switch between modes has been removed from the STF models, but the VTF-3 Mk 2 will keep it.

How about setting up a sticky thread with these pictures and pictures of the other new products I also put these pictures up on the sticky thread at the top of this section of the forum.

Speaking of pictures, on Thu. I'll have new pictures of the Ventriloquist and the VTF-3 Mk 2. :)

Chris A,
The warranty is transferable. We need the invoice (or a copy of it) and serial number to process warranty claims.

[diad98]

IF Outlaw's LFM-1 is a clone of STF-3 with a cheaper price ($579), no sale tax and better electronic warranty (3 yr vs 2yr), I see no reason to group buy STF-3 for Californians.
Maybe we can ask Outlaw(or Aperion Audio) as a distributor for VTF-3 so we can avoid VTF-3's sale tax too without the hassle of group shipping.

[Michael Bain]

The problem with that is that there are some differences between the STF-3 and the Outlaw sub (such as lower adjustable crossover on the Hsu). Essentially Dr. Hsu can squeeze more out of a sub than almost anyone else, and he is constantly making improvements in his own products even right up until launch date. Another convincing reason to stay with Hsu is the customer support. Also, I think Hsu Research has a longer warranty (2-4 more years?) on the woofer. I am hopeful that Hsu Research will soon explain more about this, because the issue deserves attention.

[Lwang]

Hopefully, the STF would be tuned more toward musicality while the Outlaw emphasize the boom-bam-fizz of the HT subs. This way, people will associate the Hsu subs with accurate music bass reproduction, while at the same time being able to keep up with the rumble only subs in terms of SPL.

[diad98]

If STF is aimed at the average customers (Bestbuy, Goodguy and Circuit city), I believe most people don't care the lower ADJ crossover or any crossover because they just set the crossover @80hz from the receiver and it's done.
If there is a cheaper STF w/o crossover, it may outsell the more expensive one.
I prefer longer electronic warranty than longer driver warranty because it's more likely to damage the AMP than the driver when the volumn is too loud.

[Lwang]

Originally posted by diad98
If STF is aimed at the average customers (Bestbuy, Goodguy and Circuit city), I believe most people don't care the lower ADJ crossover or any crossover because they just set the crossover @80hz from the receiver and it's done.

I don't think Hsu is aiming at the J6P. Those guys think their $200 giant box sub is awsome enough. It is only when someone wants something more than boom, then do they start looking at subs like Hsu's.

If there is a cheaper STF w/o crossover, it may outsell the more expensive one.
That's aiming at the $199 HTIAB crowd.

[/quote]I prefer longer electronic warranty than longer driver warranty because it's more likely to damage the AMP than the driver when the volumn is too loud. [/QUOTE]
Amp frying before driver? It is probably true with Hsu's drivers, but in general, woofer's voice coil melts, go out of alignment from over-exertion/heating along with other various stress related damage.

[Michael Bain]

STF series is obviously not aimed at the Best Buy crowd. It is a lower priced alternative to the VTF series, without the variable tuning. There may be some other physical differences that set the STF-3 apart from the Outlaw, let us wait and see. Reasonably speaking, there is no way that Hsu is going to let the Outlaw sub perform exactly the same for a slightly cheaper price.

[CT2]

I went back to forums back to June/July, there is no real indication LFM-1 is a clone of VTF-3, as far as I can tell, it's just outlaw's marketing method to associate it's first Sub with Dr. Hsu.
If I have to bet between the two, I will put my money on Hsu.

Just my .02

CT2

[Sasha_G]

Originally posted by diad98
IF Outlaw's LFM-1 is a clone of STF-3 with a cheaper price ($579), no sale tax and better electronic warranty (3 yr vs 2yr), I see no reason to group buy STF-3 for Californians.
Maybe we can ask Outlaw(or Aperion Audio) as a distributor for VTF-3 so we can avoid VTF-3's sale tax too without the hassle of group shipping.

The Outlaw is not an exact clone of the STF-3, and the price information is not correct.

The prices of both units will be the same at $599, and there will not be free shipping. We will have free shipping on the STF-3 during the pre-order only, but that is it.

There are the cosmetic differences, differences in the port positioning, and the differences in the ratings of the amp. We conservatively speced these amps so both amplifiers will be quite similar.

You are free to order from them if you would like to save on the sales tax. The Outlaw sub should be a good sub also.

However, we are very strict about anybody except us selling our products direct. Ascend Acoustics is the only current exception. Therefore, you will not be able to get Outlaw or Aperion to distribute our products.

[BradJudy]

Originally posted by Sasha_G
However, we are very strict about anybody except us selling our products direct. Ascend Acoustics is the only current exception. Therefore, you will not be able to get Outlaw or Aperion to distribute our products.

Will the exception for Ascend continue with the new product lines? It doesn't matter for me since I already have an Ascend setup, but it would be good to know.

[tekygeek]

Hey, I'm interested in the group buy...but having trouble tracking dates to know if this is still a go? I'm in Menlo Park on the peninsula.

Thanks, Jeff

[diad98]

It's still on and CT2 is in charge for this.
I am waiting for VTF3 detail now and hoping Hsu can release it ASAP before the end of preorder.

[CT2]

What happened to STF2, is preorder gone already?
Check the front page!

[Chris A H]

Just got the email that my STF-2 shipped yesterday and should arrive tomorrow! Wasn't expecting it until after Thanksgiving, that was mighty fast.

Order page says free shipping for the STF-2 goes away on Nov. 25, so if you are sitting on the fence you'd better move quick...

[diad98]

From the STF2 order page, you can choose elther Black or Silver and both are available now.
How come we never have any picture showing silver sub?

[Sasha_G]

Yes, Ascend will continue to sell our products if they like, becuase they were with us in the beginning.

Yea, the free shipping from the pre-order days is slated to end Nov. 25th, so I'd like it if the group buy were placed sometime around then. An extra few days or so is fine.

The silver sample was sent to a reviewer before I could take pictures, and the silver is backordered. Unfortunately, we've just looked at the schedule and Silver will not come until after Christmas.

Let us know when you are ready to do the groupbuy.

[CT2]

Sasha,

Thanks for the update. The group buy basically is waiting for pictures of STF-3 and VTF-3 MKII, I have made up my mind but
some not yet.
we will definitely order before pre-order ends.

Thanks,

CT2

[diad98]

Looks like STF-2 is available now, STF-3 in Dec and VTF3 in JAN.

For group buy, will it be 3 shipments or STF3 orders will wait for VTF3?

Really hate to make a decision under current circumstances but if there is no obligation to buy before the shipment for pre-order I think I will put my name to save the spot.

[CT2]

From what I got from Hsu, it will be shipped seperately.
Diad98, you should have received my update email including
such information.

[Sasha_G]

Here is what the VTF-3 MK 2 early prototype looks like, except we don't have one with the logo on it yet. This unit has been shipped all over the country, used and abused and tested, certified, etc., so keep that in mind when looking at the picture. Also, the edges and corners will be slightly more rounded.

[Sasha_G]

This shows the size of the STF-3 compared to the STF-2. Note that THE CORNERS WILL BE ROUNDED, and the logo will be the plexiglass one found on the newer pictures of the STF-2. This is all I have shot of the STF-3 now. The ports will be in the same locations as the VTF-3 Mk 2.

[Sasha_G]

Here is a pic of what the actual shipping STF-2 looks like.

[cschang]

The finish on the STF's look A LOT like my Ascends!

[Michael Bain]

These are nice pics. You should put the STF-2 pic above in the Pictures sticky thread.

[clownmstr]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and just wanted to say "hi". I'm interested in joining this group buy if it's not too late. I'm interested in the MK2 (looks awesome).

CT2, I sent you a PM


Thanks

[italia]

Is the piano black finish going to be the only one available? I would prefer to have a matte black finish like on the newer VTF-2.

And what's this about the VTF-3 being pushed back to January?

[BradJudy]

Will the final VTF-3 MkII have seams around the top and bottom like the prototype? I was hoping for something a bit cleaner looking in the new finish.

[ALTHEA5333]

Does the pre-order for the STF-3 end on November 25th as well even though that unit will not ship until most likely the end of December?

Or will there be a special pre-order for the STF-3 in about a month?

Thanks.

[spudd123]

Hi,

I'm interested in the MK2. Please add me to the group buy if it's not too late. Thanks.

[CT2]

We are ready to order, anyone not received my email and still
want to join in please PM me with your email address and the
model you want.

Thanks,

CT2

[DowLow]

CT2 I am in. YGPM!

[CT2]

This group buy for San Jose area is ended today.
Thanks for everyone's input, especially timely and valuable
informations provided by Sasha.

Happy Thanksgiving!

CT2

[Fatcat]

Any updates on our orders?

Thanks

[CT2]

There's not. I called before Christmas. Will call again.
BTW, FatCat, I got a new receiver:Yamaha 1400, like it a lot!

CT2

[CT2]

FatCat,
VTF3 will be shipped in Feb, STF3 is in custom, will be shipped 1st
or 2nd week in Jan. We will get email notice with tracking info when it's shipped.
Thanks,

CT2