STF-3 @ 325W?

[Slee_Stack]

Any chance it's a 325W amp that is installed in the STF-3?

I'm assuming the Outlaw LFM-1 is a clone of the STF-3 (whose product manual was posted yesterday). Or will there be a different plate amp in the STF-3?

[Chris A H]

Don't know if the Outlaw LFM-1 is a "clone" of the STF-3:

LMF-1 = 58 lbs unit weight
STF-3 = 78 lbs shipping weight

So is there 20 lbs of packaging??


LMF-1 = 3 years warranty all parts
STF-3 = 7 years for woofer, 2 years for electronics



Sasha, what are the differences? The Outlaw newsletter brags about there "latest and greatest" 12-inch driver, is the same driver in the STF-3?

[Sasha_G]

Disregarding internet rumors, both the Outlaw sub and the STF-3 are planned to sell for the same price ($599), and both will include shipping fees.

They have speced their amp a little higher than ours. The STF-3 amperage is conservatively speced at 300 watts.

There will be some other differences:

Theirs has a plexiglass top, ours has a vacuum formed vinyl top.
Theirs has the ports downfiring, ours has it firing from the rear.
Both should weigh about the same.

Some of these choices were made by Outlaw.

With the STF line, all the choices were made by us.

The bottom line is that both will sound similar, but that small design changes will give each a slilghtly different sound.

If I had a choice though, I would go with the HSU brand, but I'm biased. ;)

[Michael Bain]

Disregarding internet rumors, both the Outlaw sub and the STF-3 are planned to sell for the same price ($599), and both will include shipping fees.

Is there free shipping indefinitely, or only free shipping on pre-orders?

[Lwang]

So Outlaw just specified a high power for their amp, even though the two are exactly the same? Or did they order all the amps coming off the assembly line that performed a little better?

[diad98]

From time to time, when people shop for $599 sub they will compare STF3/LFM-1 with SVS PB1-ISD.
In that point of view, Outlaw is smart enough to spec the Amp little bit higher(325W) than PB1(320W).
With Hsu's plan, 300W STF-3 +/-2db to 25HZ is NO MATCH to 320W PB1-ISB +/-2db to 22HZ on the paper.
I don't think Hsu should use different (conservative?) standard to spec the Amp or frequency response, it may save the dignity but it will lose the market.
No matter how confident Hsu is in STF-3, if there is no marketing, there is no sale.

[Michael Bain]

It is true that marketing is important. You just can't always win on paper because other manufacturers do not use honest spec.

The STF-3 will actually meet and exceed it's own stated frequency response specs. It is also a more stringent margin (+/- 2db's) vs the svs pb-isd (+/- 3db's). I have yet to see a single review where any svs is flat in response to it's stated point of tuning. I have yet to see a single review where any hsu is not flat in response to it's stated point of tuning!

Hopefully most people will not be fooled into thinking that a manufacturer spec of 20 extra watts is significant in comparing to a fundamentally different design and more conservative spec! At the same time, if the rating truly is conservative, then Hsu should specify the true rating of the amp.

[Chris A H]

I'd love to see Hsu come out with +/- 3db numbers for the SFT models to help with the comparison to other manufacturers.

[Sasha_G]

Correction:

I just talked with Dr. Hsu, and it appears Outlaw HAS decided for a lower price for their LMF-1. We'll have to see if this is their actual final cost.

Regarding free shipping: free shipping is planned to END when the items are finally in stock.

[Michael Bain]

So Outlaw is going to charge 20 bucks less and spec their amp 25 watts more? Raw deal if you ask me, at least from a marketing perspective. People may be fooled into thinking that their product made in conjunction with Dr. Hsu is more attractive than your own. Somehow the people at Hsu Research will need to make their product stand out from Outlaw on a marketing basis.

[Lwang]

Outmarketing Outlaw? That whole company's whole existence is because of marketing. Hyping their pre/pro as if some of their engineer was designing it in the back while it is actually an OEM'd product from a Taiwanese company. Same goes for their amps, an variation of ATI's amp.

Hsu's only chance is to offer better performance, whether that turns out to be with their slight diferences remains to be seen.

[Michael Bain]

Hsu needs to offer better performance true, but he also needs to be able to effectively convey and market that information to the users, that is the tricky part.

[Ddavidson]

Its a combo of marketing and real world performance. But the real winner for Hsu has been the great and consistant pro-reviews like those from Nousaine, Keele, Ferstler, Deutsch and Hardesty.

But lets not kid ourselves that average Joe will look and buy on things like bigger numbers. I think too much credit is given to average Joe as a shopper for audio as the amount of rubbish sold in retail is very high and Joe keeps going back and buying. Its almost like you need to label with the biggest number you can get away with without bringing down a law suit. Crazy marketing rules in audio. (ie. None) Try PMPO watts for making things look good.

PMPO (Peak Music Power Output)

PMPO is a poor measure of amplifier power output. It is a mostly arbitrary figure that can be easily manipulated to make an amplifier look better on paper than it really is. Always use RMS power (continuous power) when judging the power output of an amplifier.

PMPO is different than peak power (music power). Peak power is related to RMS power by an amplifier's headroom (dynamic headroom). A headroom of 3dB indicates a doubling of continuous power, so an amp with 3dB of headroom and a continuous (RMS) power rating of 100 watts could produce 200 watts of peak power. If its headroom were 6dB, it could produce 400 watts of peak power. Note, however, that most quality amplifiers do not have headroom values of greater than 3dB. A higher headroom value typically indicates a poor power supply that cannot provide sufficient power at normal levels of output.

The PMPO term is not a reliable measure of amplifier performance.

http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/dictionary.asp?dictionaryid=498




Ddavidson