Using Full Range Speakers with HSU Subwoofers

[Tvortex]

I have been using bookshelf speakers (paired up with a sub-woofer) since the mid 90's. Before that always had full range speakers (i.e. dedicated tweeter, mid-range, bass), back before the advent of powered subwoofers. Back then I just couldn't get my mind wrapped around that type of combination. Suffice to say, I was highly skeptical that I wasnt going to like a high quality bookshelf speaker system paired up with a high quality subwoofer! First time I ever heard that combination? Now...? That was a wow experience for me. Realized by setting up your preamp/receiver to re-direct low bass frequencies and then placing bookshelf speakers on stands, you got pinpoint imaging, detailed midranges, etc. Thought to mysefl over the years do you really need full range speakers anymore.

Question? I still think about going back to a floor standing speakers, then mating them up with my VTF-2 Mk3. However, I've read a number of reviews about the effects of bass cancellations, etc. I would hate to negate the sound and effect of my VTF-2 Mk3, which has been sonice bliss mated to my current bookshelf speakers. My goal is to have a dedicated midrange.

Any thoughts/expereinces from the members? Like most audiophilles, I am always craving for perfection in sound (which I realize is
irrational on some levels. LOL!!!)Tim

[kinggimp]

What are your current bookshelf speakers? From what I gather you are thinking of upgrading to get better midrange from your speakers. Upgrading to a nicer pair of bookshelf speakers could help.

[Tvortex]

Hey Andrew! I curently have the B&W 600 Series (I think the original or second generation). They have a 1" Tweeter, and a 6.5 Mid/Bass Driver. In all sincerity? You could take a 100 average folks, and I dont think a single one of them would even have an issue of how they sound. Everyone that I have had listen to them, comment how perfect they sound. Mind you though (all non -audiophile types) that think a built there built in mono computer minotor sounds great!

My speakers, matched up with the VTF-2 Mk3, sound darn near perfect IMHO.

Audio equipment & speakers are a hobby for me. I would like to have a full range speaker (or a close as possible), with a pure mid range driver. No mid/bass driver, etc. And again I realize mid range starts to inlcude some upper bass, etc. Personally for me, its why I like B&W speakers so much it because of their midrange. And again I know a lot of people who dont care for how they sound, I respect that.

Was looking at the B&W CM Series in particular the CM7.

[Tvortex]

It’s all interesting! Dr. Hsu is so accommodating with his forum members, I wanted to ask him like 8 zillion question! With like 799.99 zillion of them a waste of his time! Suffice to say I figured I would find some additional information through interviews, and was curious as to what he thought about full range speakers. And again his viewpoint isn’t against them at all; he was more pointing out the ability to have better placement with high quality smaller monitors and/or bookshelf, etc.

In Goodsound he was interviewed and he felt

"If I were buying a system from scratch, I would not go for floor-standing main speakers at all. With a good subwoofer, there is really no need for the main speakers to have good bass response. Save the money and buy a good minimonitor instead. They tend to image better than large tower speakers do"

That was orginally in line with my thinking, in the earlier post where I commented does one really need full range speakers anymore, with the advances in modern subwoofers. Maybe I'm stuck in the old school model, but I remember back in the day I thought that the "audio purists" line of thinking was that powered subwoofers were not natural bass. And again I realize "back in the day" was before the advances in overall digital technology, powered subwoofers, home theater, modern day digital recording studios, etc.

Question? In real world applications, do you get better mid range imaging from smaller monitor vs. full range speakers? My thought was augment full range with a powered subwoofer, not eliminate it. What I would hate to lose, more then solid midrange? Is the ability to have really nice imaging. I go back and fourth between the two (smaller monitor vs. full range). Or purchasing a higher end bookshelf speaker. This me personally? But I do more of near field (critical) listening, so regardless of full range or not? The speakers wouldn’t be far away from me, and always "toed in" to the listening position. Tim

[kinggimp]

If you're looking for a excellent midrange speaker a great company to look into is ascend acoustics. They sell Internet direct like hsu. You should take a look at their CMT-340 SE. If budget isn't an issue take a look at their Sierra-1. Also the Sierra has more finish options that would go well with your walnut subwoofer. Both speakers are known for their great midrange and imaging.

[JerryMeeker]

Regardless of the speaker system you buy, you will want to implement bass management in your AVR, which routes frequencies below the crossover point (normally 80-100 Hz) to your subwoofer(s). It is likely that a high-quality system like the B&W's you are considering will have good bass response in addition to the good min-range response that seems to be your objective, with bass management you won't be needing, or using, the extended bass response.

[Tvortex]

Hi Jerry & Andrew! I agree with both of you (will check out the ascends), and thats exactly what I would do. For me, after having full range speakers (minus powered subwoofers, in that they werent around in my day) and then swithcing over to higher qulaity bookshelf speaker (no matter what your preferences are) with a powered subwoofer....I was sold! I was listening to my system last night, and the imaging is just so "spot on" it literally floats in front of you. That imagining combined with the midranges and the bass, are what I enjoy the most (i.e. sound quality in general).

I just wanst sure if you can get the same effect from a full range speakers? With the ultimate goal of having a pure mid range driver, that isnt really handling any bass, which would be left up to those bass drivers and a powered subwoofer.

My room charctareists are all over the place, plaster walls, wood floors, high ceilings. Not an ideal environment for speakers at all. What I do know, is what I can get with bookshelf speakers, mated to a powered subwoofer. Ironically? There's nothing wrong with what I have. After listening to this HSU Subwoofer....I think about what is close to state of the art, right now, within reason, and in bookshelf or full range. Tim