Ventriloquist and STF-2 at CompUSA?!

[Chris A H]

Saw in the Sunday CompUSA advert a home theater "bundle" consisting of the VT-12, the STF-2 and the Pioneer 812 receiver! Looks like new distribution channels for Hsu.

[Michael Bain]

Who would have imagined it two years ago? :D

Way to go Hsu! Finally some good quality products appearing in the local stores.

[Lwang]

Heeey,

They got the STF-2 available for $349 with 1 cent shipping, what's going on here?

[Sasha_G]

I know, we agreed that they would not sell below the factory direct price. We are actively trying to put an end to it. It looks like they are trying to start off with a big bang.

[diad98]

It confuses me again.
Compusa's STF-2 got 250w instead of 200w just like Outlaw got 325w instead of 300w.
Is the spec open for distributors to fill in or retail version is more powerful than direct version?

[rhehd]

They're out of stock now. Does anyone know if they'll be in stock again?

[m1ke323]

I would also like to know if they would will be getting more shipments anytime soon. I want the ventriloquist and STF-2.

[jklow888]

Sasha,

Is HSU going to make an effort to stop the price war and match it for those who have already ordered their STF-2 in mid/late November ?

I can only imagine a number of buyers cancelling their orders in favour of ordering an STF-2 at CompUSA ...

[Michael Bain]

So STF-2 is now listed as "SOLD OUT" at compusa.com. Very interesting

[CT2]

Indeed!

[Lwang]

But when I punch in zip code of 90210 (the only one I know in LA), it comes up with a Culver City Superstore that has limited quantities, but not available for pick up.


They still got the VT-12 though for $249 with 1 cent S&H.

[Rama]

For my zip (03079), in one of the stores it said the STF-2 was available in "limited quantities", but when I called them they said they don't have it.
BTW, Sasha, how is it that the amp power rating is 250W in the compusa ad?

[dog2424]

I managed to order one (STF-2)from the City of Industry Superstore for pickup. After getting the confirmation to my order I went back and checked the inventory and it was unavailable. Got it just in time. :cool: I'm going to try and pick it up today.

[dog2424]

Just showed up as "In Stock" in San Bernardino which is much closer to me. Got it ordered there now.

[CT2]

I just put an order through for STF-2, store pick up at Emeryville, CA. Available NOW. What's going on? We were told no retail(include HSU itself) allowed to undersell the $399 price and lots
of pre-orders need to wait 1 more week for Dec 8 shipment.

Has anyone actually picked up one already? What about those
pre-orders through HSU, will HSU refound them?

[dog2424]

I'm about to go pick mine up. As soon as I get it I'm canceling my direct order. I'll try to post here after I pick it up.

[CT2]

Picked up one for my friend, 200W, not 250W.
Original shipped from CERRITOS, CA on Nov.25,
arrived local compUSA Dec.1

[Michael Bain]

Didn't you guys know? CompUsa hired a guy named Dr. Chu who was able to magically increase the power of the STF-2 by 52.5 watts with the help of a portable cooler, a hacksaw, and two portable fans. He was under the impression that the new amp could be overclocked like a video card with a few simple tweaks, so CompUsa let him have a go at it and their advertising team took over from there :D

[Gemini]

Now you can order.
Just ordered one :) (price droped after adding to cart) , it says ships in 2-4 weeks. I guess not much different from factory direct which has been delaying our shipments forever. I can wait for 2-4 weeks if I am gonna save $50, then I can cancel my factory roder (which is about $425..)

Sub-Total: $349.99
Shipping**:
Ground Freight ($0.01)
$0.01
2-Day Delivery ($81.73)

Air Freight Next Day (AM Delivery) ($86.47)

Taxes: $28.86
Total*: $378.86


Enjoy :)

[Chris A H]

I now find I can drive 3 miles and buy the STF-2 for $50 less than I paid direct. I bought on good faith when it was stated on this forum that "no one will sell it for less than the factory direct price of $399."

Since that is obviously not true, I have emailed HSU about this. I am well within the 30-day guarantee period, and will ship it back if HSU cannot make good on their earlier promise.

Now we'll see how good their customer service really is...

[Apple2k]

I feel the same way.. bought it on good faith on a fine product.. but not happy when it was POSTED HERE that HSU Direct would be the lowest cost!

[ALTHEA5333]

Does anyone know if Comp USA will carry the STF-3?

[Michael Bain]

I don't think Hsu anticipated that CompUSA (or any other retailer) would undercut their factory direct price. In fact, it should be written into the contract that the retail price cannot drop below factory direct price without penalties. It almost looks like CompUSA intentionally wanted to see how people would react about the new products after they threw that low price out there.

[diad98]

I bet they will have STF-3 available earlier than the net order and for the formula it will be $75 cheaper and penny shipping year round.
But wait, if you buy a combo with a receiver you may save another $100 bucks or giftcard. In that sense compusa doesn't charge you less than direct price, it just gives you the rebate in the form of giftcard or cheaper receiver.
And don't forget you may apply for a store credit card for 0% financing and who knows it will give you 10% off for the first purchase.

[htenthusiast]

Is HSU willing to price match CompUSA? I have already ordered my STF-2 but HSU is out of stock until Monday.

I think it would now be fair for HSU to pricematch CompUSA since we placed our orders thinking we had the best price. If not, I'm thinking of cancelling the order and buying from CompUSA since they do have a lower price at the moment(even with tax).

Can Sasha or HSU respond to this thread and let us know how they are going to handle this situation to make it acceptable for everyone?

[SonnyW]

it seems no one from HSU is responding on this forum. the CompUSA deal came out at worst timing imaginable. I placed my order and am checking CompUSA for available HSU combos.

[cschang]

As Sasha elluded to, it looks like there was an agreement for CompUSA not to price below the direct pricing. Hope it gets sorted out. Small Hsu vs big CompUSA may make it difficult.

One thing is for sure, a lot of people with great brand new subs!

[htenthusiast]

I just called the CompUSA near me and they said they have 2 STF-2's in stock. So with tax it will cost about 379 to purchase there.

So unless HSU or Sasha responds to this thread by tomorrow morning stating that they will price match the 379. I'm going to purchase the sub from CompUSA and have it in my house tomorrow instead of waiting on the backorder delay.

HSU isn't supposed to get anymore until Monday and they aren't guaranteeing that they will ship out the same day they get them.

Please respond asap! The difference in price isn't as big a deal as the shipping delays IMHO but with a price match I could stand to wait for the HSU shipment since I have already placed an order.

Thanks

[Sasha_G]

SonnyW,

I try to respond to the forum at least every two business days. I did take the Thanksgiving Holiday off.

{previous comments edited} Regarding CompUSA, I can't really comment on that until we finish our negotiations.

Any newly made units that arrive are going to go to our backordered customers FIRST. Please know that our currrent lack of units was a last minute event that was out of our control and happened at the last second. We place our direct customers first.

The latest units should arrive at the dock tomorrow and must go through customs. It should be the 8th or 9th when we start shipping them via FedEx Ground. which takes on average 3 days to arrive. This will end our backorder completely.

[SonnyW]

thanks Sasha. I totally understand what situation HSU is at now. As a customer that honer your product, I do have to say sorry to cancel my order from your direct sale site as the lower price as well as immediate availability are too attractive.

I hope Hus win this war eventually. In addition, I'd wish it is Amazon that sells your products, not only CompUSA.

[htenthusiast]

I also had to cancel my order. I just picked up the STF-2 at CompUSA today. I can't wait to hook it up. I'm sorry the direct sales didn't work out. But no matter what, I think I'm going to love this subwoofer. I'll post my impressions as soon I put it through the paces this weekend! Sorry that I couldn't wait any longer!

[schwartz]

Cancelled my order yesterday and picked one up today. $378.86 after tax. Saved $20 and get instant gratification! Now let's hope it performs as well as it's supposed to. To be honest, I'm still a little skeptical about something in this price range, but I'm sure HSU wouldn't risk their reputation by putting out an inferior product. If anyone wants one in Houston, there is still one left @ the CompUSA on Westheimer (Outside of the Beltway), and since they are listed as out of stock on the website, I'm willing to bet that most of the other stores have them as well.

[Gemini]

Just cancelled my direct order. Picked the last on in CompUSA Shaumburg, IL. Still waiting for the email confirming my cancellation.. Saved $50 and got it same day :)

I hope it is gonna outperformthe paradigm I currently have, so I can return it to the paradigm dealer.

[Sasha_G]

{previous post edited} We are currently in negotiations with CompUSA, and I can't comment on any of this right now.

[jaobrien6]

Just picked one up at my local CompUSA (Tigard, OR) last night and cancelled my factory direct order this morning. I was told I would NOT be getting a confirmation email, were others told differently (since Gemini mentioned a confirmation email)?

Thanks,
John

[SonnyW]

I have requested a confirmation email twice, as well as a request from Yahoo store for review the process. There is no response from the order department at Hsu. I think this service is not acceptable for an Internet sale, nor does the 3rd delay.

I image the CompUSA's price raise would only cause more purchases there immediately. Few enthusiasics can wait that long for shipping.

Frankly these sort of transactions normally cause LOTS of complains, yet very few did so. Glad for HSU and good luck with your future contract with resellers.

[Chris A H]

I am not satisfied with the outcome of this situation, and will be returning my STF-2 for a full refund.

[cschang]

It looks to me that CompUSA broke a contract agreement with Hsu.

So I am confused as to why some people are upset with Hsu.

[CT2]

It's same logic why Hsu should be upset about CompUSA,
between early adopters and Hsu, it's Hsu at fault. The way
this is handled by Hsu is not quite acceptable(simply blame
CompUSA without a solution for our direct orders)

[cschang]

Since CompUSA did not follow the agreement, what would you like Hsu Research to do?

[DavidD]

I agree with Curis here. I don't think this is Hsu's fault (unless you want to say they shouldn't be selling at CompUSA anyway...) However, if you give them some time to deal with this situation, I think everyone will be treated fairly. In my experience, that is the way Hsu operates.

[Sasha_G]

SonnyW,

Where did you send your email? To the orders@hsuresearch.com ?

I have not received anything from you at sales@hsuresarch.com, and I wish you would call us before complaining to Yahoo.

As far as giving people $50 off, WE wont do that. That would be correcting a wrong with a wrong, and out of principle we won't do that. We think the price for our unit is fair and represents a great value in the market already, and will be doing all we can to maintain the everyday low prices of our products.

We still are selling at the MAP, or Minimum Advertised Price. There is no break of promise there.

If people want to patron CompUSA, that is their choice.

[Ddavidson]

(unless you want to say they shouldn't be selling at CompUSA anyway...)
When you walk with the devil the road can only lead you to one place.

Ddavidson

[Apple2k]

Sasha, I am quite pleased with the STF-2 as a product.. I was one of the fortuate ones that got their order early.. it is all I expected it to be.. this unfortuate situation with COMPUSA just left a bad taste in everyone's mouths.. including HSU .. I'm sure..

No, I not asking for the $50 difference... in this crazy 'hobby' $50 buys you to DVDs..

Just feel a little less happy than I was when I first ordered it and received it...

Keep providing your customers this level of service and a place to voice our thoughts... that's got to be worth $50 :)

[Sasha_G]

I understand the "bad taste" very well. CompUSA is one of our "big opportunities", and our relationship is going to take a little bit of work--like all relationships. We still intend on keeping dealers, but will need to regulate keep our eye on dealers. Although it is difficult for some of hard-core supporters to appreciate, dealers are essential for growth, especially when selling to foreign countries where a local contact person is needed for language specific support, repairs, etc..

[Ddavidson]

Although it is difficult for some of hard-core supporters to appreciate
Yes I too have heard things like "Pond Scum" and "Good for Nothing Droids" being used as a description for such things.http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ddavidson

[Sasha_G]

We are now offering retroactive free shipping on all backorders as a way of thanking those who have stuck with us during this test of our character. :D Even if your checkout screen and confirmation indicated a shipping charge, it will be waived on your final invoice.

[gchon]

didnt Hsu really think it can control all of its dealers? Either you sell direct to the consumer or you dont, simple as that. I dont see too many products that can control the distribution chain that tightly.

Even if Hsu is able to stop compusa, I'm sure I'll start to see "new" Hsu products on ebay, audiogon and a few others just like every other consumer good that isnt soley sold factory direct.

profit margins can not be forced on anyone. the free market allows people to do what they want iregardless of what the manufacturer dictates. the internet just makes it that much easier to sell things at razor thin margins.

You dont honestly think I can go to an audio only dealer and say...."I'll take two Hsu subs, but give me x%(5-10) off or I'll get it direct from Hsu." what do you think the audio dealer will do? that same tactic can be used at circuit city, best buy or any other place. just talk to the store manager and give it a try.

I would like to see Hsu be able succeed by all means, so good luck! I'd just bet this wont be the last time this happens.

[Gemini]

Good luck for Hsu research with their new opportunities with CompUSA, as this will only help us customers in driving the prices down through volume marketing and tougher competition.

Doing business always results such price differences and slowness in implementing policies and communicating customers thought, but this is the nature of the market.

Happy holidays for all :)

Cheers...

[diad98]

You may get a cheaper than MAP price at Compusa today, tomorrow or one year from now due to your negotiation ( bundle buy, quantity buy, returned customer, semi-anniversary, etc). The difference is that price is the final not the asking and it is not published to the public, and on all media methods the advertised price can not be lower than MAP. As you already see from many other goods' ADs it will describe it as too low to advertise and please call xxx. As long it's case by case and won't cause a price-war I think it's tolerable.

[JimmyTango]

gchon,

I take it you do not know much about business. My family opened our business shortly after I was born. Currently, i run a good chunk of it. We have expanded to internet sales with growing sales month to month over the last two years(in a sagging economy no less). In fact, without the internet, the retail store would have gone under because of this economy.

When a retailer agrees to sell at a certain price, and no less, the supplier can pull the plug on the retailer getting that product if found to be selling at a different price.

Ever notice how video game systems are always the same price at retail stores?

Sasha,

I understand the problems you have had with CompUSA. I am glad to see you had some contracts written up and had CompUSA sign or at least had some form a discusions with them before agreeing. You did it in the proper way. You owe no one here anything for CompUSA's bad bsuiness practices.

[gchon]

Jimmy,

no offense to you, but dont you see all video games can be bought cheaper on ebay? I just bought 10 nba live 2003's for a few employees of mine on ebay for $10 under retail price there. In fact I buy all of my games there.

I have never said one couldnt succeed on selling on the internet. Just that in most competitive industrys with large scale volume, margins become squeezed.

I am not trying to belittle your business, becase that is CLEARLY not the case. I would be curious what your annual sales are (I would assume less than a few million). If that is so, then you are talking about peanuts and low volumes like that can always be exceptions to the rule.

Savy/bad/untrustworthy (what ever you want to call them) retailers can always find a way to let product go without the manufacturer or distributor ever becoming the wiser. The internet makes it that much easier. Sales a little low this month......need to hit your numbers.....well just dump some product to a non licensed distribution channel and bingo, you just hit your numbers. You honestly dont think this happens? Plasma TVs, audio equipment, computers, you name the product and I bet your business (litterally) I can find a way to get it cheaper from someone below retail.

If Hsu can find a way to get it done, KUDOs to them.

[Ddavidson]

The price difference that many people are talking about with retail products is only the difference of being ...... an authorized retail product or being......a retail product pushed out the back door.

Selling on a retail margin price structure and selling on a direct margin price structure are extremely different, and based on far different margins.

No manufacturer, regardless of how big or small has ever been able to have a two tiered pricing structure, so that one market is selling (the exact same product) at a much cheaper price than the other is selling at. You simply can not operate with two vastly different pricing structures trying to cover both markets in some sort of workable form.

Plenty have tried to find a way to get the best of both worlds and some of them have had lots of money to try to achieve it, but these seperately structured markets will forever remain two worlds apart.

Sure you can back door a few items, but in the end as other manufacturers have found out, you have to choose......you are either in "retail" or your a "direct" market manufacturer.

Ddavidson

[JimmyTango]

gchon,

You are comparing two different industries. Retailers(for video games/systems) are bound by contracts that tell them what they can sell them as. I really do not care if someone or a small business, is selling them at $10.00 cheaper. It has no bearing on retailers. HSU has an agreement with a retail chain, discount online stores/ebay sellers have no relation to retail chains. Your original point was that HSU shouldn't be suprised that they can not control CompUSA. They can, because of their agreement.

About 10% of the product we sell must be at certain prices. This is typically the higher end lines. Some of it we can not even show the actual product online or take orders online. We can only show that we carry the line and they would have to email/call us for availability.

Typical retail is double whole sale. It cost us $50.00, it retails for $100.00. Many of the lines we discount, we make next to nothing on. But with the volume sales, we do.

[SonnyW]

Originally posted by Sasha_G
SonnyW,

Where did you send your email? To the orders@hsuresearch.com ?

I have not received anything from you at sales@hsuresarch.com, and I wish you would call us before complaining to Yahoo.



Yes, I sent it to orders both from your website and in email, got immediate automatic response but no real reply:

Thanks for sending your message. The following was sent to Hsu Research. We will try and respond within two business days.<p>
In the meantime, you can browse some <a href='http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=166'>answers to common questions here</a><strong>Name :</strong> Shianglin Wu<br><strong>Email :</strong>[info erased here]:</strong> <PRE>Hi,

I have placed the following order on 11/21th. Please cancel it
today (12/3th). I understand that HSU has not shipped this
order to me.

"order hsusubs-2014 from Official Hsu Subwoofers Store"

I opt to purchas your product at local CompUSA.

Regards,
Shianglin Wu</PRE>

And no, I didn't response to yahoo's request, don't worry about it. HSU should realize that many of us are Internet savvy and we could indeed spread good/bad reviews. I can see even people are not quite satisfied with the sales, they are quite happy with the subwoofer.

BTW, it took me time to study that STF-2 is the sub that I wanted, not the VTF-2. The sale person I spoke with at HSU initially stated the opposite (that STF-2 is opted for volumn) until I call the third time, when he finally got an answer from Dr. HSU and apologized to me.

I think HSU wasn't prepaired really well for this product. With such a strong demand even lost some customers to CompUSA, I am sure HSU should be very happy with this new products.

[JimmyTango]

I am very confused. It seems one minute you do not have a problem, then the next that you are threatening to leave bad feedback over the internet because you are internet savvy(it is not hard to slam a company on forums, business review sites, etc).

HSU is not at fault if there are delays in getting the product to them. It happens all the time with my business(especially with the economy, when suppliers have kept lower inventories). They have kept us up to date on the situation in a timely matter. This shows HSU understands that their customers want to be kept up to date.

HSU has done the right thing in not charging until the product is ready to ship. There would be a problem if they had charged with no product to ship.

If I was canceling an order, I would call and talk to a human being, rather than rely on emails. I have emails never make it to customers all the time, and vice versa. It happens. I wouldn't trust preventing a $400 charge to my account by sending an email, I would want to talk to a human and have him confirm to me my order was cancelled.

Buying from CompUSA will not hurt HSU, and might actually help them. I am not sure what their agreement with CompUSA is, but I do know CompUSA can be very stuck up on how quickly a product should sell. The more that order from CompUSA, the better chance HSU has of CompUSA placing another large order. CompUSA's customer base will be different than it's direct sales customer base. The people buying at CompUSA will most likely not be that big into home audio, and will simply see a good price on a subwoofer. This shoudl help to open up a new customer base for HSU, including large sales.

I also heard GoodGuys was bought by CompUSA. Good sales at CompUSA might open the door for sales at GoodGuy.

[Lwang]

The people buying at CompUSA will most likely not be that big into home audio, and will simply see a good price on a subwoofer. This shoudl help to open up a new customer base for HSU, including large sales.

Would people see that moderate sized Hsu box and think it is a good deal? Especially when every other brand out there are putting out giant lunk-of-junk with super hyped spec, many for less than $200?

[JimmyTango]

Works for Bose with those tiny cubes. It's all in the marketing.

[Sasha_G]

Originally posted by gchon

Even if Hsu is able to stop compusa, I'm sure I'll start to see "new" Hsu products on ebay, audiogon and a few others just like every other consumer good that isnt soley sold factory direct.


I hope not--we are really trying hard to go for everyday low prices. We will be monitoring Ebay and Audiogon to track down dealers selling new ones. Our goal is that no dealer is allowed to sell direct to customers (via shipments) on the internet but us.

[9mileskid]

Let's also remember out there the difference between a distribution channel and factory direct. Hsu will need to sell 2-3 subs to CompUSA to make the profit he does on 1 factory direct. In addition, the CompUSA sale probably carries some nasty terms so he's not even recouping his money for 30-45 days if not longer.

Sitting next to Bose, JVC, Infinity, etc... a Hsu sub is still going to have trouble pulling sales. You all went running becasue you knew of Hsu beforehand. The average Joe trusts a brand name. Add to this a backorder/out-of-stock experience and Hsu at CompUSA may result in more bad experiences than good.

I've been a marketing "executive/consultant" most my career. Marketing only gets people to the trough, if the water don't taste good nobody drinks again or tells others about it. (Unless you're like McDonalds and have enough cash to convince people of anything!) Going the distribution route can cripple a small company since the investment is so highly concentrated in inventory there is precious little left for awareness marketing.

For example, Hsu wasn't even in the 2 part extensive Sub test Home Theater Mag and Sound/Vision put on. There are numerous ways to Market Hsu without massive expense if you have a good plan and know how to execute. As they say, Budwieser used to be a microbrew too.

Once sold to a distribution channel, there is very little a manufacturer can do to control price, diversion or unauthorized sales. What's worse is there are rules that bind the manufacturer to their price structure within their distritubution channels.

IMHO, Hsu must now concentrate on awareness marketing and brand identification using Guerilla Marketing tactics. Decide on your niche and your message and find unique and compelling ways to get the word out.

Or call me, I'd love to help :D

Thanks for filling my world with bass.
Sincerely,

David J

[cschang]

Originally posted by 9mileskid
Or call me, I'd love to help :D


I think they should!

What would it cost? A couple of subs?

[Dudley]

Marketing is complicated especially with an elastic item such as a subwoofer. I can see where HSU is trying to go - they want to have a Lexus (VTF) and a Toyota (STF) basically the same item, but with a few more bells and whistles, better materials (on the upcoming VTF-2 and 3), and a few more touches. This way they can market essentially the same product to more people.

The problem comes with the double channels of distribution. Direct sales and mass market. If the factory direct price is the same as the retailers price that sends up a red flag to the consumer - "If they can make money by selling for wholesale to compusa, they must be reeling it in when they sell direct". Whether this is true or not (HSU could theoretically be selling at cost to compusa just to get their name out there, but I doubt it) the perception is still there. When the retailer can sell the item for less than HSU's price that makes the red flag even larger.

Consumers want value - they want to feel like they got a good deal. Look at the HSU home page one of the first things you see is "performs as well as subs costing 4 times as much". The value issue is a strong one. If a consumer does the math, then they could guess that HSU sells the STF-2 to compusa for less than Half of it's retail price, like most other electronic goods. Figure HSU has to make a profit and the cost to them is really starting to get down there. Now these margins are probably no different for other sub makers, but they don't sell direct and retail.

Now, I am in the market for a subwoofer, and am seriously considering the STF-2. If I buy one for $400 and then grey market subs start to appear for $250 (at high volume low overhead resellers with no customer service, who live on thin margins, and make some of their profits from ads on the web site, so they don't need to make a ton on their products) then I would understandably be upset. Even if the sub is better than any other sub that costs $800, the perception of value will be lost.

If the STF line was only sold through retailers, and the VTF only direct, then there could be no comparisons. Most compusa buyers are not aware of these forums, so the people who are mostly affected are the informed consumers - hence the outcry on this board.

Part of the problem could be that compusa feels the need to have a discount since they are known for being a discount store. Maybe the retail price should have been $450 that way compusa could have their discount and sell for $400, and not undercut HSU.

Anyway, enough rambling - I hope HSU keeps tight control of things. Of course I can't help thinking how great it would be if the factory direct price was really what they sell to compusa for. Talk about value.

[JimmyTango]

Originally posted by Dudley


The problem comes with the double channels of distribution. Direct sales and mass market. If the factory direct price is the same as the retailers price that sends up a red flag to the consumer - "If they can make money by selling for wholesale to compusa, they must be reeling it in when they sell direct". Whether this is true or not (HSU could theoretically be selling at cost to compusa just to get their name out there, but I doubt it) the perception is still there. When the retailer can sell the item for less than HSU's price that makes the red flag even larger.


Buying in bulk will get you anything cheaper than list price.

[SonnyW]

Originally posted by Dudley

Anyway, enough rambling - I hope HSU keeps tight control of things. Of course I can't help thinking how great it would be if the factory direct price was really what they sell to compusa for. Talk about value.

I believe HP printers, Canon camera and many computer stuff are cheaper if you buy from their reseller; yet no one has a problem with that.

I always search for the best price, it would be impossible to see a lower direct price. Howerver sometime vendors play with bundling for the price differences.

[Ddavidson]

Once sold to a distribution channel, there is very little a manufacturer can do to control price, diversion or unauthorized sales. What's worse is there are rules that bind the manufacturer to their price structure within their distritubution channels.
Absolutely. That is why a retail partner has to be carefully choosen and even then the back door sales still happen. You can not control it because the nationwide distribution chain just has to many holes in it where they can leak out. I know many small brands who have tried very hard to control this and the only way was to choose a tighter group of smaller partnerships. The box movers are famous for out the back door sales that will flood the internet.
The problem comes with the double channels of distribution.
It can not work and this is what Hsu has tried to do. The two markets are totally different and have far different margins because buying at retail in todays competitive market can be more like bartering in Asia for a shirt.

Hsu has tried to put a $750 price on the STF-3 and $499 price on the STF-2 at retail but then on the other hand is selling on direct $599 STF-3 and $399 STF-2. You just can not do that because its like declaring your hand in a game of poker (retail). Now they have done the opposite of the structure and choosen a box mover as a partner who operates on moving boxes and min profit so where has $750 and $499 gone, better yet why even have them.

All it shows is a clear lack of retail market expierience and that the two markets and a two tiered pricing structure was never going to work. Basically they have gone and shot themselves in the foot by not understanding retail. It was an "absolute certainty" that they would loose control of pricing and that it would effect the direct market.

We live in the age of information at your fingertips and the internet is now a big part of shopping (growing extremely fast) which includes price checking. All the retail only brands know all too well how even they are dramatically kept in check by shopping on the www : The AVS forum is a classic example of the world looking in at locating the best buys and effecting local pricing of multinational brands like Sony, Marantz, Denon etc The discovery of 60-70% off was staggering to retailers and shoppers alike.

To think that average Joe will stay in a shell when spending money on any product may have been true years ago, but with email and the www its all at your fingertips...... even for average Joe. Even a six year old at school is learning the internet shopping.
Going the distribution route can cripple a small company since the investment is so highly concentrated in inventory there is precious little left for awareness marketing.
When you are direct you can control everything from selling price.stock levels to service,warrenty and backup. Once you open youself up to distribution your costs and your exposure to bad debt is just like a candle in the wind. Unless you have the people, money and marketing clout the downfall of changing from a controlled self enclosed direct seller to a retail distribution chain often results in swift fast closure of the business. It is a whole different world.

Hsu's big mistake is to think it can somehow have a two priced structure, sell into retail and keep itself as a direct market brand. I know of no one who can achieve that unless they buy their own retail outlets and even then the pricing is not radically different like Hsu has tried to do with its structure. It's just clear the heartache will continue as shown on the HTF thread where CompUSA was telling their buying cost.

Hsu needs to go back to doing what it does best and that is selling great subs on this web site. They are small and should keep out of the mud that is retail. Even a handful of audiophile stores is better than getting into the pond scum of CompUSA who would not know a speaker from a subwoofer. Reputations and respect is lost so easily especially when you loose control of your own destiny.

Ddavidson

[BeFree]

Hsu is a MANUFACTURER of speakers. It is not at all uncommon for manufacturers to sell directly to the public. Sometimes direct pricing is higher than retail. A difference of fifty bucks - so what? With Hsu, you're still getting an excellent value.

As stated earlier, Hsu needs to develop name recognition in the marketplace. This is true. Right or wrong, Hsu doesn't seem to invest tremendous amounts of money on advertising, nor do they toot their own horn very much. This will come in time. Hsu seems to be going after a hugely growing market of ordinary folks who want a low cost home theater system that doesn't compromise on sound quality.

Hsu will continue to be a successful speaker manufacturer because they deliver great products at great prices with great customer service. What more can you ask for?

[9mileskid]

Good posts everyone!

However accomplished, Hsu has gotten into bed with CompUSA. How exactly they think that will help them is unclear to me. Magnolia Hi-Fi or any such upper scale retailer okay, but CompUSA???

The message they are sending is "our product is not really on par with Klipsch, Polk, Velodyne" which we all know it is! How then to unbreak the egg?

I say they discountinue sales to CompUSA and begin selling to the upscale retail market at a wholesale price that is no more than 20% less than their retail direct price. A Hsu "authorized" dealer offers personalized service, in-home consultation, etc... and if kept to a select few in each major city, would have a very nice exclusive product to compete against the other "find it everywhere" brands out there.

The in-store price for a STF-2 then should be $6-700 - it's about time the retail market conveyed the value of the product. That's still less than half of what it's competing against. Each retailer would only need a demo assortment and Hsu could then ship directly to the customer or to the store as needed (that'still got to be a better margin then selling to CompUSA) As we all know, the in-store price of a new Yamaha 2400 receiver for example is $999 but we can buy it on line for less than $800 delivered and take our chances. With Hsu being to only on-line retailer there are no chances taken, just low price.

If that's too drastic, one method of establishing a distribution channel is to find retailers and give them the sale that Hsu makes at full retail prices! In very remote areas you stay direct but in the major population centers where word of mouth is the best marketing, sending a retailer a check, a customer lead and a contract for a short term, volume dictated, exclusive distribution agreement is a win-win all around.

The toughest thing for a good marketer to find is a product and company that delivers on its promises. You want to sell some subs? let's talk. You'll have a plan and begin implementing steps within months.

Just by way of qualifications, I'm currently responsible for promoting/marketing over $1.6 billion in Lottery products to the State of CA's 30 million people, but my real passion is small business marketing. As I like to say, the coach of a world class sprinter doesn't need to run the dash in under 9 seconds, just make it possible.

[tdekany]

Just by way of qualifications, I'm currently responsible for promoting/marketing over $1.6 billion in Lottery products to the State of CA's 30 million people, but my real passion is small business marketing.


What do you charge?

[Ddavidson]

However accomplished, Hsu has gotten into bed with CompUSA. How exactly they think that will help them is unclear to me. Magnolia Hi-Fi or any such upper scale retailer okay, but CompUSA???

The message they are sending is "our product is not really on par with Klipsch, Polk, Velodyne" which we all know it is! How then to unbreak the egg?

I think that is what has so many people stunned. It's not like Hsu is down the bottom of the ladder in SQ and can not compete. Actually it is the opposite and reviewers are always saying Hsu out guns the big guns. So what's with giving consumers the image being desperate and dateless by selling at CompUSA? Who knows why any decent audio brand would want to be in such a non-audio driven enviroment.

Hsu is actually a very well known and respected name to many audiophiles, and this includes many higher-end retail shops (who actually care about sound quality and their customers). All of the good dealers that I have spoken to know how much I like Hsu subwoofers. All of them know the VTF and TN series and most have said if Hsu offered decent margins they would look seriously at putting the line on.

But they would not touch Hsu with the current cut and shut box moving situation that is happening with the product line. I am sure even the lower quality more mainstream shops like Tweeter, Ultimate and many other decent shops would love to carry Hsu.

Imagine Hsu customers could back to back test in a "good sound room" against brands like Sunfire , Velodyne, Definitive, Klipsch, M&K, Energy, Snell, Atlantic, Canton, Paradigm, Earthquake, B&W, Genelec, NHT, PhaseTech, KEF, Triad, Polk, Revel, James, Mirage, JBL etc.

I think we know how Hsu Research compares to CompUSA's
Top selling / Most popular Home Theater Subwoofer / Speaker / Audio brands.

(1) Shinsonic Multi-Media's
(2) LG International America
(3) IAG America
(4) Go Video
(5) Infinity Systems


Ddavidson

[BeFree]

Gentlemen, Hsu has made a clear marketing shift with the introduction of their low cost speakers. Their market is NOT high end audio. Some of you are having difficulty reconciling this fact because Hsu's product quality is so high. Well, that's precisely why Hsu can potentially "corner the market" on high quality speakers that fit the average Joe's budget. Right now, there's very little competition.

Let's face it, the market for Average Joe's dollars is much greater than the handful of audiophiles in the world. Hsu is banking on making it's money by selling in volume, so it's easy to see why they got in bed with CompUSA or any other major retailer with a national presence. Some members on this forum have already purchased their Hsu subs at CompUSA. A few weeks ago this would not have been possible. I applaud Hsu for opening its door to a much broader audience. In time, we'll all see it as a smart move.

This same issue is brought up with Polk Audio. Some people don't understand why Polk sells high quality speakers at Circuit City. Well, Matthew Polk makes millions of dollars each year off sales at Circuit City. Sure, he could limit himself to selling his speakers at high end audio stores (which, by the way, are becoming extinct) but he would miss the opportunity to sell his speakers through a national chain. If Polk didn't sell its speakers at Circuit City, I probably would not have heard of them, nor would I have gotten a chance to demo them, and eventually make multiple Polk purchases.

That's business, baby.

[tdekany]

Originally posted by BeFree
Gentlemen, Hsu has made a clear marketing shift with the introduction of their low cost speakers. Their market is NOT high end audio. Some of you are having difficulty reconciling this fact because Hsu's product quality is so high. Well, that's precisely why Hsu can potentially "corner the market" on high quality speakers that fit the average Joe's budget. Right now, there's very little competition.

Let's face it, the market for Average Joe's dollars is much greater than the handful of audiophiles in the world. Hsu is banking on making it's money by selling in volume, so it's easy to see why they got in bed with CompUSA or any other major retailer with a national presence. Some members on this forum have already purchased their Hsu subs at CompUSA. A few weeks ago this would not have been possible. I applaud Hsu for opening its door to a much broader audience. In time, we'll all see it as a smart move.

This same issue is brought up with Polk Audio. Some people don't understand why Polk sells high quality speakers at Circuit City. Well, Matthew Polk makes millions of dollars each year off sales at Circuit City. Sure, he could limit himself to selling his speakers at high end audio stores (which, by the way, are becoming extinct) but he would miss the opportunity to sell his speakers through a national chain. If Polk didn't sell its speakers at Circuit City, I probably would not have heard of them, nor would I have gotten a chance to demo them, and eventually make multiple Polk purchases.

That's business, baby.


AMEN!

[Ddavidson]

Some members on this forum have already purchased their Hsu subs at CompUSA. A few weeks ago this would not have been possible.
That's business, baby.
You can go down to Sears, park outside with a van full of subwoofers and then find on Saturday that you have some new forum members.
But it certainly doesn't mean it's a smart business move at all.

However I do not think anyone is saying the ultra high end retailer are the target (most of that has been dead for a while). But you at least need Hsu products to be represented by a semi-decent nation retailer of "AUDIO" At least they have a decent idea of what is happening in sound and have the ability to demonstrate properly against othe comparable brands.

People are talking about places like Ultimate Electronics, Tweeter, Magnolia etc Still national chain type stores but of the AUDIO variety that have 1/2 a clue about sound.

Crazy Charlies Supermarket is not the enviroment where you buy quality sound at any level. Its a place where you just grab a box and put it in your trolley on the way to the checkout. If sound quality doesn't matter then sure your selling in the right place, because the customers who shop here do not care about anything "but price" and they judge this by the spec lies on the side of the box indicating they just got a 1000w subwoofer for $99.50

If that is indeed a great marketing move for Hsu then boy why worry about doing "reviews" and why worry about what people think of the sound because people who buy at CompUSA sure are not going to worry what it sounds like. As long as it go's "BOOM BANG BOOM" when something blows up then thats just dandy. Just as "Shinsonic" will never be a Sony in name recognition (just because its the number one seller in CompUSA), neither will Hsu so the other gibberish about CompUSA giving Hsu brand recognition is just that gibberish. The lowest common denominator will not change.

I have had various Hsu subs for about 10 years or so, and whenever talking to Dr Hsu he is very keen that you listen closely to the differences between music with his subs. What are you going to do at CompUSA scream out shutup I am listening to the detail this sub offers over the 10" 500w Shinsonic superwoofer.

Of course at CompUSA neither the salesman or the customer care's about SQ. The sales droid only cares that it's another box out the door and that it's under the buyers budget. I suppose it makes it easy for Hsu because they no longer have to aim specifically to get good reviews because their customers and retailer have no clue about SQ and do not give a rat about it.

Your right it sure make's perfect sense to jump in bed with a NON AUDIO retailer that sells PCs, PC Accessories and PC parts. Look's to be a great business move.


Ddavidson

[Michael Bain]

CompUSA is expanding to include electronics and audio equipment in most of it's stores:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/newsflash/compusa-12-2003.html

For Hsu, this is not about savvy business practice. This is about giving more people an opportunity to see and hear the product before buying.

[JimmyTango]

Some people are making way too big of a deal out of this.

People are talking about places like Ultimate Electronics, Tweeter, Magnolia etc?

Guess what? Not one anywhere near me.

Yet 5 CompUSA's within 25 miles near me.

:rolleyes:

[BeFree]

DDavidson --

Believe me, if Hsu had the capacity to put it's merchandise in Tweeter or Circuit City or Best Buy, they would have done so (assuming they could ramp up production to meet the demand). But Hsu is like Nemo - a small fish in a big sea. CompUSA is Hsu's first foray into going national. In a couple of years you can expect to see Hsu's products in more appropriate venues, but it's gonna take time to build brand recognition.

Also, don't discount CompUSA's ability to promote audio products yet. They are a very successful retailer, and as the article points out, they recognize the relationship between computers and audio. In a few years mainstream HT systems will be operated by computer, so it makes sense for CompUSA and Hsu to develop this partnership.

[Ddavidson]

Michael business is about making the best choices possible for your business. It's as obvious as the sun coming in the morning that places like Ultimate Electronics, Tweeter, Magnolia etc can do much better job than CompUSA ever could in selling and representing a decent quality audio brand (note the use of the word decent). Mainly because these type of demonstration stores are already well established, specialized and knowledgable in audio and HT. Yet they are still national chain type stores.

It is not simply just a matter of signing up a retailer/s, but also at all of the ramifications of making your choice. Your chosen retailer is your business partner, and so they are a reflection of the image you want to your customer's to see. There are two retail market extremes (cheap/high-end) and Hsu should be in neither. Hsu equipment should be compared in decent sound rooms, and against it's main opposition brands. How it compares to Shinsonic and LG is pointless as you do not buy the suff sold in CompUSA for quality. You buy it because its cheap. If Hsu is about SQ, then it has no business wanting to do business......in a CompUSA store.

Ddavidson

[JimmyTango]

In think the two or three posting like the post above are simply imbarrassed they own a brand now sold at CompUSA.

It is not hard, those 'retailers' you mention are very small compared to CompUSA.

Who cares what the typical Johny-Come-lately-I-want-Bose-Because-A-5-AM-Informercial- Said-They-Are-The-Best thinks of HSU when they see them in CompUSA instead of, say, Tweeter. Well, who cares besiudes you an the one or two others posting like you.

If you are embarrassed to own something sold at CompUSA, sell your sub and go with something sold at Tweeter.

Simple, more CompUSA's than tweeter, or whoever., means more sales



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Ddavidson]

Simple, more CompUSA's than tweeter, or whoever., means more sales
They must be better then !http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

With such simple logic I can only then ask can you do taxes?
Because in real business being bigger just doesn't mean your best. Business just ain't that simple.http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ddavidson

[JimmyTango]

You mean the real business that my family has owned for 26 years, and I now operate half of?

You really want to go down this road? You have been repeating the same junk over and over. Sell at Tweeter, and other small retailers because that will mean better sales because some salesman living off of the same small income knows more there.

In real business it is that simple, pal. The outlet with a larger customer base has a greater potential for greater sales.

It is also not that hard to give someone 5 sheets a paper, and have them recite the same junk a sales person at Tweeter would recite.

I suggest you stop the smart mouth comments quick. I also suggest you stop crying like a baby because HSU is now sold at CompUSA.

[Michael Bain]

Ddavidson - some of your points do have merit, and I agree that a place like Ultimate Electronics, Magnolia, etc would be more ideal from a standpoint of auditioning (although let's not forget though that many of these stores do a somewhat poor job of providing an ideal setup for audition, because they just squeeze in a bunch of speakers/subwoofers in a very small space and use switchable units to play different products), but I really think there is potential in this arrangement. CompUSA is a highly visible and recognizable company, and they do plan to add more electronics and audio equipment in most of their stores (maybe even an area to audition). Many people actually enjoy shopping there because they can generally buy products with little interference from salesmen.

Just realize that there are different approaches and different visions of how to do business.

[Ddavidson]

You mean the real business that my family has owned for 26 years, and I now operate half of?
No offense but owning 1/2 a family started business doesn't automatically make you a guru in business. Survival and being financially successful in business can often be at opposite ends.

You obviously do not fully understand the first thing about audio and acoustics or else you would not even consider the environment of CompUSA. Unfortunately five sheets of paper is far more than a droid at CompUSA could handle.

There is much more to a business than turning over volume. CompUSA is obviously a very bad choice..... "if" you are at all interested in comparing and listening to competitive audio brands. Do you really think that the brands that Hsu will directly compete against are sold in CompUSA? No they are not, they are sold in audio stores like Ultimate Electronics, Magnolia, Tweeter.

By choosing a more audio dedicated store (that actually relies on knowing the HT and audio business), is going to have a very positive long term reflection back on Hsu. The chosen store/s reflect the public image of the brands they are selling;
(1) By the way the store is presented,
(2) The demonstration room ability,
(3) The other brands that they carry and
(4) The store staff knowledge of HT and audio in general.

Hsu Research's big competition in retail circles is of course going to come from Velodyne, M&K, Paradigm, Sunfire, Earthquake, B&W, NHT, Definitive Tech.

The thing that you are so blatantly missing is that a successful business is not "just" about selling a lot of boxes at min profit. Of course if you business forte is to just shuffle boxes around........then all the more power to you for expelling the energy to shuffle.

Although it may seem strange to you, a business plan requires "much more" than just signing up the group who has the "most stores". Or else everything would be sold in Wal-Mart Stores, as they are the world's largest retailer, with 3,200 facilities and $244.5 billion in sales in 2003 alone.

With the lack of knowledge about audio at CompUSA I imagine the fun and games will come as CompUSA customers get feed all sorts of totally wrong misinformation.

The main point is that CompUSA is not even close to being the ideal partner for a company who has built it's main reputation over 10 years for excellence in "Sound Quality", "Design", "Service" and "Proper Placement Advice" for owners.

You certainly will not get any of that by selling it in a "Personal Computer Supermarket".


Ddavidson

[Michael Bain]

Davidson - ease up already. You are turning a subjective issue into a personal battle. Your vision of what constitutes a good business (ie 100% factory direct) is not shared by many other people. CompUSA is one of Hsu's first efforts in retail at local stores, and CompUSA is changing their stores to accomodate new audio and electronic equipment. This situation is infinitely times better for those people who refuse to buy a product unseen and unheard on the internet. While stores such as Magnolia, Tweeter, etc are considered more electronic and audio stores, they generally do not seem overly concerned with acoustics and proper placement, as they just cram in many speakers and subwoofers into a relatively small space. There is no perfect system, just accept this. Hsu would probably love to have his product in stores like Magnolia, Ultimate Electronics, Tweeter, but it doesn't happen instantaneously and is much easier said than done.

[JimmyTango]

Double D, you might as well stop. All you are doing is showing how ignorant you are, and how pathetic it is to get so hyped up over something so stupid.

If I was you, I would knock the chip off your should before someone does it for you.

[Ddavidson]

Now you know why I stay out of the Svs vs Hsu debates.

Although I obviously like tight, small, and controlled. As such I prefer direct as a model (because box volume seems like a waste of energy). It is after all "your profits" that really matter at the end of business. Box numbers mean nothing if you have no profit .

I am not totally against seeing some retail. Although as a 10 year Hsu customer I would prefer that they had a seperate brand and line-up (designed by Hsu).

But if your going to actually put Hsu in stores let's at least make it audio retail stores. Or else all this forum will talk about is price. Any talk about SQ will just become a thing of the past.

It really gets down to where you think the Hsu brand should sit in the market place. I just believe it should sit many levels above where CompUSA is. If it was WAL Mart I would feel the same as CompUSA. Good Guys is at least audio driven and is a better reflection than trolley mart .


Ddavidson

[BeFree]

It really gets down to where you think the Hsu brand should sit in the market place.

Hsu has made it abundantly clear where they want their brand to sit in the marketplace. They decided on CompUSA. End of story.

It ain't personal, folks. Dr. Hsu is taking his business to another level and not every customer will agree with the choices that are made. Is it risky? Perhaps, but an even greater risk for Hsu is doing business as usual or becoming pigeoned-holed as a "high end" speaker manufacturer. I predict that in a few years when SVS matures, they will do the same thing and die-hard SVS fans will be having this conversation.

[Lwang]

Ddavidson,

Maybe this CompUSA plan is a ploy for you to support Hsu in the retail market in the future. You obviously have shifted from no retail to mid-high end retail after the discovery that Hsu is heading for CompUSA.

Seriously,

Looking at CompUSA's opening of their Digital Entertainment Product Department, I don't think it pertains too much to audio related product. Their emphasis seem to be "plasma, LCD, portable DVD, DVD recorders, and PVR". So I am not sure that Hsu would be shown in good light in which their advantage could be demonstrated compared to the other more appealing (brand name, specification and size wise). If Hsu was a brand like Thunder auto subwoofer (is there sub a brand?) that emphasize being LOOOUD. Then that quantitative factor could be easily conveyed by the salesperson that remembered the blurb sheet. But sound quality is a subjective matter, and either has to be hi-lighted to the listener with the proper music/soundtrack. Whether those plasma, LCD, portable DVD, DVD recorder or PVR specialist would be able to do that, we will have to see.

As far as CompUSA bieng the first step, eventually leading up to higher tiered stores. I have not seen that too often. The only time you would see that would be if brands like Shinsonic or Soundesign decides to come out with a boutique line. Usually, brands heads the other way, from higher tiered store down to mass market retailers after building up their reputation in the audio world. By then, its original client base already has moved on since that brand has sold out. But many of those sold out brands are happier that they sold out since they probably take in alot more money, living off their name of yesteryear. Brands like Fisher, Marantz, Infinity, KLH, Klipsch are like that. But one has to realize that they first established themselves as respectable and widely known brands.

[JimmyTango]

CompUSA is expanding. Why is that so hard to understand.

They also bought GoodGuys.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/09/29/financial1404EDT0136.DTL

[Ddavidson]

They decided on CompUSA. End of story.
Yes they have, and IMO it's unfortunate that they do not have higher ambitions as they modeled on the the mid mass market pricing not on the $99 special market.
Perhaps, but an even greater risk for Hsu is doing business as usual or becoming pigeoned-holed as a "high end" speaker manufacturer.
Hsu was never ever pigeon-holed as high-end because high-end also means high prices and Hsu blended its love of SQ at affordable pricing that Joe Average can afford.
Maybe this CompUSA plan is a ploy for you to support Hsu in the retail market in the future.
I new it they got me into talking retail. Must get Dr Hsu to ring Mr Dell asap and get him back on track of controlling the whole chain. http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif
You obviously have shifted from no retail to mid-high end retail after the discovery that Hsu is heading for CompUSA.
Well my real opinion on that has not shifted but making best of a bad situation calls for Plan B. I admit I was somewhat shell shocked as I thought they had chosen "Good Guys" and then I find its CompUSA stores which just doesn't make sense under the history of Hsu's SQ preference.

I realized over 12 months ago that no matter what I said Hsu was already being talked into going retail. Like it or not. But I always thought at least Hsu would be into decent listening situations where decent advice and comparisions can be given. For the love of money I never thought it would go into a box mover who has absolutely no ambition for SQ what so ever. Actually SQ is not even a word they have heard of.

Seriously,

Looking at CompUSA's opening of their Digital Entertainment Product Department, I don't think it pertains too much to audio related product.
Seem's shortsighted & very silly move for Hsu and I believe BIC just help slide them into their market and situation so it was presented on a silver platter as an easy work option.

Ddavidson

[JimmyTango]

:rolleyes:

[Michael Bain]

The STF-2 should handily outperform the Infinity. Read some of the reviews on this website to get an idea about how the Hsu products consistently perform comparably or better than products priced much higher.

There was no "haste" in rushing the STF-2 to the market. The VTF-2 has been updated and refined since 1997. The STF series is a more affordable version of the VTF series without the variable tuning and with some of Hsu's new technology. Any time you are shipping larger quantities of products to retailers, there are bound to be more products that need fixing for various reasons (internal/external damage sustainted during shipping , and so on).

At a price of $399, there is very very little to complain about because the STF-2 has almost no competition anywhere near it's price. The build quality, sound quality, and clean output capability is also superior to most products at this price. Hsu has smaller margins on this product than even many other internet companies do on their products. You would probably be shocked to learn how much more profit SVS is making on their box subwoofers in comparison, especially on their most expensive model that includes no amp. Don't be fooled, Hsu is really pushing the envelope for quality products at bargain prices.

[JimmyTango]

fanuminski,

The posts of possible defective subs are few and far between. It is 'sad' when there are a lot posts, not a hand full. Simple probabilty and statistics tells you some will not work right and will need to be replaced.

Also, so what if the CompUSA guy tried to talk you into the Infinity sub when the HSU was out of stock? High end audio stores will talk up the lines they sell, and the ones they have in stock. Yes, high end audio stores do that, not just CompUSA. :rolleyes:

[fanuminski]

MB - I chose HSU after reading all the reviews. I know the infinity
should not out-perform the STF-2, my point was that the salesman already had his perceived notion that the STF-2 was
subpar to the Infinity. The stock factor (in or out of), did not have
any bearing on my conversation with him about the STF-2.
Hence my agreement with DD and his earlier posts.
Also, the reviews have been wonderful on past HSU products.
Again, I only hope that nothing was compromised in order to
fulfill the larger order/requirements due to the CompUSA
commitment.
A "handfull" of defective products based on how many?
Simple probability based on how many? And, how would these
numbers compare to the other HSU models?
Without knowing what those numbers are, one can only guess.
My feeling was that there seemed to a few problems with some
of the units that was uncharacteristic of past performance and quality standards of HSU. Hopefully, it is within that deemed
"acceptable" by HSU and not a problem due to inferior quality and the rush to get these to market.
How can you say with certainty that there was no "haste"?

I guess that time will tell,
if all the STF's work swell.
I've chosen - and waited for mine,
I just hope that it works fine!

[Michael Bain]

No doubt, Hsu has stepped up quantity of subwoofers significantly with the newest and most affordable STF line. Build quality in general looks very good. I think Hsu is very confident about how his products are built, that is why they are offering longer warranties (7years woofer/2 years amp) than they did historically.

[DavidD]

fanuminski,

Let's try not to jump to conclusions at this point regarding the quality of the STF line. We don't really know whether there are really problems. Even if some units are defective, this can happen with any product line, even mature and expensive ones. Based upon the history of Hsu prodcuts, I think that problems, if any, will be resolved quickly and equitably for the customer. Even the fabled Infinity could have problems, and I can promise you that Hsu will be far more responsive than Infinity could ever be. Where else can you call up and talk to the designer???

[tdekany]

You obviously do not fully understand the first thing about audio and acoustics or else you would not even consider the environment of CompUSA. Unfortunately five sheets of paper is far more than a droid at CompUSA could handle

I have NEVER been to a High End Audio Store that was aware of HSU Research. Not one, unless they are good actors. One would assume that the sales staff reads Stereophile at least! The most arrogant sales people tend to sell audio in my experience which = to big egos.
Just try imagining how many HSU subs would they sell.

I also sell direct my products although I am in one retail store too that does very well with my products. Chosing between Whole Foods or Wal Mart I would take Wal Mart any day. It would mean more money in my pocket. (Volume) My supplement line is so specific (also more effective then most mass market supplements) that snobby salespeople in Whole Foods Fresh Fields Wild Oats don't even want to hear about it. So why not take advantage of numbers. I need more sales. XXD, you don't give enough credit to Dr Hsu.
If I was in your shoes, I'd try to buy out HSU, and market it the ""Right""" way, since you seem to think that your way is the only way.

Think about it! Would you try to sell your sports cars close to a ton of competition or where no one has what you have to offer.
Anyways, I am sure you will come back with some ""convincing"" answers why you are wright and I am wrong.

Time will tell!!

[Lwang]

I have NEVER been to a High End Audio Store that was aware of HSU Research. Not one, unless they are good actors. One would assume that the sales staff reads Stereophile at least!

That is strange, high end dealers heard of Hsu subs and they heard that they were very good. Of course, in pretty much all those instances, I was not there inquiring on subwoofers, so they have no reason to boast their subs are better than mine.

Think about it! Would you try to sell your sports cars close to a ton of competition or where no one has what you have to offer.

Should cars like Lotus Elise be sold next to cars half its price like the Neon SRT-4 where on casual spec reading, they might look similar? Or should it be marketed with other cars in which it on par in terms of subjective performance, namely those race bred brand/models that starts off in the 6 figure range.

[9mileskid]

:D Such Passions!

The point here is not the "Store" but the marketing presence of the product. Let's also look at the target market (oh yeah, the customer :rolleyes: ) and btw - volume does not mean profitability, Amazon still doesn't make money. The capital required to sell thousands of units is MUCH different than hundreds. HSU in CompUSA ultimately conveys many messages while raising questions:

Will someone looking to spend $400 on a sub go shopping at CompUSA?
Will someone looking for a $1000 sub look for comparison models at CompUSA?
Will the $99 - $250 sub buyer step up to an unknown (to them) name at a Computer store?

WHO IS YOUR CUSTOMER HSU? or an even better question, WHO WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR CUSTOMER TO BE?

In the short term, those aware of HSU would do their "price" shopping on and off-line. Other, larger companies, sell in the HSU price range by offering a little taste of the Top-of-the-Line (for those who can't get the Denon 5803 there is the 3803, etc...). I am still a firm believer that the VTF-3R needs much more attention, coverage, marketing, press, etc.... More firmly establish the brand at the higher end and maybe the audiophile walking through CompUSA WILL recognize the name and believe they are getting the deal of the century - maybe. Seeing it there may still convey the wrong message "What did they take away from HSU so it can be offered here?"

It all depends on the direction of the company - what does HSU want to be when it grows up? You want to be Polk? Great. You want to be Velodyne, that's great too. To be the first you'll need some deeper pockets and a good story to tell (Polk's media marketing that led to their growth was superb), to be the second you'll have to raise your reputational expectations not lower them.

Even in the worse case scenario, a year at CompUSA will provide invaluable research. You are gathering research, right? a questionaire in the box? a link to an on-line survey? soft telemarketing following up to purchasers asking about their buying and listening experience?

I've just given out well over $1000 in advance. You want me to design the survey, script the call and formulate a follow-up plan? I offer my services. Drop me a line.

Once again, I listened to a great live bootleg of a stand-up bass and guitar. That was the most beautiful, clear, real sounding bass I'd ever heard. Thanks so much for delivering on you commitment.

DJ

[BeFree]

I've just given out well over $1000 in advance. You want me to design the survey, script the call and formulate a follow-up plan? I offer my services. Drop me a line.

You call that a $1,000 worth of advice?

You are assuming Dr. Hsu hasn't done his homework (i.e., market research) or that he isn't following a carefully thought out marketing strategy.

[9mileskid]

I'm not assuming anything. I did not receive a questionaire in my STF-2. Did you?

I'd like to know who my CompUSA customer is, wouldn't you.

I'm not saying there was no homework done.

I am saying that with a step as significant as this, many smaller companies JUMP at the chance of being in a big retailer without the tools necessary to handle either success of failure.

The $1000 I spoke of had to do with the time necessary to sit with HSU personnel and discuss these questions and their answers.

And if I was so carefully thought out, why were they so surprised to hear that CompUSA was undercutting the price?

Please :rolleyes:

[JimmyTango]

Like CompUSA, or other chains, have never broken an agreement with as big, or much larger, companies.

I remember when, I think it was, Software Etc broke the release date of the Nintendo 64 and sold it early, which allowed all retailers do also do so. I guess that very tiny company Nintendo should have contacted you, huh?:rolleyes:

[mendes9]

anyone know when Compusa is getting more VTF-2's in?

[Sasha_G]

Here is an update: we are currently in negotiations with CompUSA, and we should keep things civil here. I have been told to take off any of my comments about CompUSA "breaking an agreement". CompUSA is one of the largest retailers and we want things to work out. By increasing our the amount of products we sell, we are able to pass on savings to the public. On the business side, this has to do with facts of life such as "economies of scale" and increased manufacturing efficiency, alowing us to even improve build quality. The STF series is an example,as it is a great value. Instead of deleting past posts, I'm just going to stop this thread.

In the future, posts saying that CompUSA "broke an agreement" will have to be deleted. Thanks for your participation.

By the way, the posts by the professional marketers earlier in the thread, where they gave some professional advice, was very interesting. Thanks!