Which sub?

[Yohann]

I have been living in the dark ages without a sub since....well always. My current system has 2 Frazier MKVD2 monitors which do pretty good bass considering what they were designed for.
I finally am ready for a sub (just moved into a house!) and I am mulling over the details of what sub to get. The living room is mostly retangular with an opening in the back right for the kitchen and the middle right for the entry/hall. The room is average size and the house is about 1600 sq. ft. on a concrete slab.

I do play classical music and I'm afraid my musical tastes will swing to the side of organ music if I get a sub that can play 20Hz and below(my poor neighbors!) I love the standard action movies as well so I need a sub with power, accuracy and low bass ability. So finally, here is the question.....

Now;

Option 1: Buy the STF-2 at Comp USA,

Option 2: Buy the Velodyne CHT-12 for $499 at CC

Wait; a couple weeks and save

Option 3: Buy the STF-3 (or VTF)

Option 4: Buy the TH 1220 for $849


Knowing the 1220 might well be the best performance, how would the other options stack up? If the STF-2 isn't enough can I add a second one and get performance = to the STF-3?

and which tuning will the STF-3 emulate? and what kind of 20hz and lower bass can I expect relative to the VTF?

Oh, also considering the Ventriloquist because none of my surround system matches! Has anyone compared it to the entry level systems from Infinity, Bose and Polk etc?


MG

[Sasha_G]

Originally posted by Yohann

Knowing the 1220 might well be the best performance, how would the other options stack up? If the STF-2 isn't enough can I add a second one and get performance = to the STF-3?


You can use a Y connector and add two STF-2s to your system, which will be about as loud as a STF-3 with equal bass depth.

and which tuning will the STF-3 emulate? and what kind of 20hz and lower bass can I expect relative to the VTF?

The STF-3 goes to 25 Hz, the VTF-3 MK 2 will go to 20 Hz.

The bass 20 Hz shakes the air around you--its not so much an aural sensation. Its a strange feeling :)

The TN-1220 is still our king of the deep, with usable bass down to around 15 Hz. Compared to our other subs, this is more usable bass below its rated extension because of the 4 inch port.

[Sorny]

If you like organ music, go for the TN1220HO. I've got a pair of them. They are simply sublime for music, and when you've got subs with outrageous response like these, they breeze through the most torturous of movie soundtracks.

My "great room" is a total area of about ~7500 cu ft (open floorplans suck, the kitchen/dining room is open to the living room), with a listening area of roughly ~3500 cubic feet and I've pegged my radio shack SPL meter in the 110dB scale (C weighted, slow response) when watching Star Wars: AOTC at reference. No matter where you come from, pegging an SPL meter in the 110dB scale (meaning at least 116dB) is nothing to sneeze at. I've not actually set the SPL meter on the 120 scale to see what they actually hit as I don't really care since I can do 115 at the listening position. I bring this up only to mention that if I can do that in my room with 2 of them, a single one would only be about 6dB less output; meaning 110dB+. Now, since I'm running 400W and you'd be running 250W, I've probably got on the order of 7.5 to 8dB more headroom than a single TN w/250W amp. Point being that you'll likely be able to hit 110dB with a single TN1220HO (250W amp) and do that from ~15Hz on up.

I know SPL isn't everything, but my experience should give you an idea of the sort of SPL you can get from a HSU sub. The SQ is hard to describe, other than to say I hear things in music I never heard before; fingers on strings, "texture" and such.

Long story short, HSU bass is awesome in both SPL and more importantly SQ.

Sorny

[cboyd1]

"You can use a Y connector and add two STF-2s to your system, which will be about as loud as a STF-3 with equal bass depth."

what do you mean by equal bass depth exactly?

other than having a more full spread around the room, what are the advantages of running 2 subs?

[DavidD]

other than having a more full spread around the room, what are the advantages of running 2 subs?

Output, output, output. Sasha meant that the STF-2 and STF-3 are approximately equal in the bass extension (how low they can go). The difference is in how loud they can play. Apparently an STF-3 can play as loud as 2 STF-2 subs.

[Yohann]

Thanks for the input! Still can't decide so I think I will wait till after Christmas and get a 1220 :) Heck, I have lived without out a sub this long, a little longer won't kill me. Then I can go build a huge collection of low bass discs :)

BTW, has HSU ever tried the Telarc version of the 1812 Overture? I hear the digitally recorded cannon goes down into the single digits. Apparently they blew out the windows in a nearby building with the concussion when they were recording it. I once watched the sub in my car and I could actually count the excursions verbally. :)

The last time I heard really good deep bass was a demo of the (then new) Infinity IRS Beta ($11,000) with 2 bass towers, 8 12 inch servo controled woofers and something like a couple thousand watts. The 19hz (or lower) organ pedal tone on Time Warp caused us to back down the volume to save the integrety of the room! Even at a modest (conversational) SPL the very low bass was so strong it rattled the ceiling tiles. That's what I want :)


MG

[Sorny]

Originally posted by Yohann
The last time I heard really good deep bass was a demo of the (then new) Infinity IRS Beta ($11,000) with 2 bass towers, 8 12 inch servo controled woofers and something like a couple thousand watts. The 19hz (or lower) organ pedal tone on Time Warp caused us to back down the volume to save the integrety of the room! Even at a modest (conversational) SPL the very low bass was so strong it rattled the ceiling tiles. That's what I want :)


MG

If that is what you want, the TN is the best way to get there. After you get the TN, pop in the demo CD. There is a song on there with a very loud 16Hz tone (-10dBFS, IIRC). Lesser subs will huff and puff and make lots of noise (port noise, driver stress), the TN will just pressurize the room. It is an odd feeling...

Sorny

[Sasha_G]

I think Dr. Hsu used to have the Telarc 1812 overture on his list ... but I for one am looking forward to hearing it the first time.

cboyd1,
The STF-3 should be about as loud as 2 STF-2s, and play bass about as deep (yes, bass extension). Dual subs sound best when placed in the same location.

Sasha