Merry Christmas to me!

[n737nc]

Look what FedEx just brought me :D

http://www.dfwstangs.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10253/800HSU_sub_1006.jpg


Getting everything set up right now. I will report back later. S.O. is taking a nap, so I can't play yet :(

[Pete_Hsu]

Nice :)

[Matt_Smi]

What a nice setup! I am looking forward to your impressions of the system, mainly with the MBM-12 and how the system sounds with it on V.S. with it off, since I am really thinking about getting one if it drops in price a bit, say to $400.

[n737nc]

Well, because of it being Christmas eve last night, I really didn't get too much time with the new set up. Had to spend some quality time with the family ;)

However, I did get about an hour or so to hook everything up, and play a little. Initial impressions are very good! The MBM adds quite a bit to the mix! It's not something that just stands out, but it is very noticable(does that make sense?).

The HO with the Turbo is very impressive! I put it through some U571 Depth Charge Scenes last night, and it seemed to handle all that I threw at it.

I still have the -3 MKII, and I plan to hook this up as well. Going to switch between the MKII and the MBM, and see which one performs better.


I know this doesn't tell you guys much, but I wanted to at least put something up in here :D

I should be able to really get down and dirty this week, and see what all this system can do. I plan to make a decision between the MKII and the MBM also.

Nick

[tedjack]

Let us know how you like the MBM......I think I'll get one depending on the user reviews.

[n737nc]

Let us know how you like the MBM......I think I'll get one depending on the user reviews.


Well, I'm not sure what I like now :(

Originally I had the MBM hooked up with the HO. It sounded awesome! But I decided to go ahead and play with all 3 subs today. Hooked up the -3 MKII with the HO, and it netted some DEEP base!

Maybe Peter will step in and shed some light here...

Set up #1
1-HO is hooked up, crossover set "in" and on 50-55hz.
2-Preamp crossover set at 80hz.
3-Hooked the MBM up. Crossover set to "out"

This set up sounds awesome! Good mids, and excellent deep base. This is an amazing combo of subs, and I can see where the MBM really pays off!


Set up #2
1-HO hooked up, and crossover set "in" and on 50-55hz.
2-Preamp crossover set to 80hz.
3-Hooked up -3 MKII,and set crossover to "out".

Still have some good mids, but this set up gave me quite a bit more deep base. I think my brain was rattling :D Just to give you an idea of how hard this set up hit, we have one of those stockings things hanging from the closet door knob. Decorative thing with bells on it. After firing up the -3 MKII and the HO together, the bells were ringing :D :D :D

I was under the impression that the -3 MKII and the HO wouldn't go well together since the port sizes are different.


I need to get a splitter so I can hook all 3 of the up at the same time......I have a feeling that me and the S.O. are going to be fighting :D


Nick

[carp]

How does the mbm sound with music? Does it give you a "kick in the chest" feeling? What kind of music do you listen to?

thanks!!

[n737nc]

How does the mbm sound with music? Does it give you a "kick in the chest" feeling? What kind of music do you listen to?

thanks!!


Other than the supplied HSU test disk, no music has been played through this system. It's used for about 90% moves and about 10% games. Although, I should probably fire up some music through the system, and see what it sounds like.

[Pete_Hsu]

Nick, did you place the -3 Mk2 in the same place as the MBM? Are you running it with one port plug?

[n737nc]

Nick, did you place the -3 Mk2 in the same place as the MBM? Are you running it with one port plug?


Yes, I played MBM with HO. Then diconected and moved MBM, then moved MKII into same location as MBM, with 1 port plug.

[Pete_Hsu]

Could you refresh my memory on where exactly the HO and MBM are placed in-room, as well as the general room characteristics?

Thanks

[n737nc]

Could you refresh my memory on where exactly the HO and MBM are placed in-room, as well as the general room characteristics?

Thanks


It's set up completely wrong for now(due to the holidays). Christmas tree took priority over the sub :(

With that said, it will be moved into a more perferable location as soon as we get the tree down. But for now, HO is placed to the right of the couch, about 6ft from listening position. MBM/MKII placed behind the couch, about 5ft from listening position. Room size is 15x20 with vaulted ceilings, but is open to the kitchen 10x20x9. All in all, it's about 6000cu ft.

[Pete_Hsu]

I think what is happening is that your room is fairly large for a single subwoofer to fill with lots of deep bass, so the addition of the -3 Mk2 really helps to pressurize the room. Try co-locating the -3 HO and -3 Mk2 (ie. place them right next to each other) in the farfield to handle 50Hz and below, and use the MBM-12 in the nearfield (as close to the listening position as possible) to handle 50-80Hz.

Even though the -3 HO and the -3 Mk2 have a bit different port tuning, it's not a totally huge difference, so they can certainly work fine when used together. One alternative would be to sell the -3 Mk2 and get a -3 Mk3 at some point in the future.

[n737nc]

Sounds about right to me :D

I'm going down to radio shack today, and buying a line splitter. Hopfully be able to try all 3 subs at the same time. This could get interesting.... :D

[Pete_Hsu]

Nick, would you mind posting a sketch of your room, including possible placement options?

Thanks

[n737nc]

Ehhh, gonna have to give me a bit with this. I don't have anything drawn up yet, and have some things going on right now. I'll get it to you ASAP.

Nick

[n737nc]

Here ya go Peter....
We took our Christmas tree down last night, so I was able to move the subs around. This is the location that I currently have them in. I have not fired up all three subs yet to see what they sound like in this set up. But, visually, this is the most appealing location for each of them.
I originally put the HO w/Turbo in the front right corner where the -3 MKII is now, and it didn't look good at all. The HO w/Turbo is an awesome sub, but an ugly duckling :D
Let me know what you think.

http://dfwstangs.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10253/house%7E1.jpg

[n737nc]

Forgot to add, TV is mounted on Fireplace. Center channel is on mantle. Rear channels are in walls.

Dementions of the rooms are:

Living room-15x20
Kitchen-10x20

The open bar between the two rooms is a half wall, with a counter on top. The entire opening is about 17ft long.

[mojave]

You will have a lot of fun trying out various combinations. I would also suggest trying to crossover the MBM-12 at a higher frequency such as 120Hz. It is such an incredible unit that I prefer to let mine cover a greater frequency range than just 50-80Hz.

[n737nc]

You will have a lot of fun trying out various combinations. I would also suggest trying to crossover the MBM-12 at a higher frequency such as 120Hz. It is such an incredible unit that I prefer to let mine cover a greater frequency range than just 50-80Hz.


Thank you sir, I will give that a shot and see how it sounds.

[Pete_Hsu]

Nick, I would prefer to have the MBM-12 located in the position next to where the VTF-3 HO is shown in the diagram.

Note that you can easily remove turbo when not in use. The turbo is only needed for ultra deep bass content (pipe organ music, or some actions movies).

Thanks for the great diagram!

[n737nc]

Nick, I would prefer to have the MBM-12 located in the position next to where the VTF-3 HO is shown in the diagram.

Note that you can easily remove turbo when not in use. The turbo is only needed for ultra deep bass content (pipe organ music, or some actions movies).

Thanks for the great diagram!


You mean like this?

http://dfwstangs.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10253/house2.jpg

[Pete_Hsu]

That's better, but I would probably put the MBM-12 in between the recliner and the couch if possible. Generally it is best to have the MBM as close to the primary listening position(s) as possible. I suppose you could flip flop the positions of the -3 HO and the MBM.

It would be interesting for you to compare this setup vs having the VTF-3 HO moved up front along the side wall in front of the VTF-3 Mk2.

[n737nc]

That's better, but I would probably put the MBM-12 in between the recliner and the couch if possible.

It would be interesting for you to compare this setup vs having the VTF-3 HO moved up front along the side wall in front of the VTF-3 Mk2.

Having it up front with the -3 MKII is going to be a big fat negative from the girlfriend. I can already tell you that.
I originally had the HO up where the MKII is now, and she came into the room and didn't say a word. She just stood there with her arms crossed and stared at me. We all know what that means :o I moved the HO to the position where it is now, and she eased up a bit. I guess she's not a fan of the Turbo :D

So just to verify what you're saying(sorry to flood you guys with pictures), this is where the MBM should be placed?

http://www.dfwstangs.net/coppermine/albums/userpics/10253/house3.jpg

[Pete_Hsu]

Yeah, that should be just fine, and hopefully will pass the girlfriend acceptance factor too :)

Is placement sideways directly behind the couch a viable placement option for you?

[n737nc]

No, it's a walkway from the front door. That diagram is obviously not to scale. I'll play with it this afternoon, and see what happens.

I'll report back soon :D

[bsoko]

Replace the girlfriend to one that is more "HO friendly".

Bill

[Pete_Hsu]

HA HA, good one!

[majorloser]

Replace the girlfriend to one that is more "HO friendly".

Bill

Take it from me. Those are hard to come by :D

[n737nc]

OK, tried several different combinations of placement. Nothing is working :(
I've spent the last 4 hours moving subs, adjusting, moving, adjusting, moving....

It's either too boomy, or sounds like it's lacking.

I'm not giving up yet, but 3 subs is tough!

[z7zZz7z]

yup... 3 subs is enough for maximum bass. :D

[Pete_Hsu]

Nick, did you try recalibrating after moving the subs? What level is the gain set on the -3 HO and MBM amps? Does it make any difference when inverting the phase?

The problem with having two subs in different locations playing the same frequencies is that there can be some cancellation. It's possible that your original -3 Mk2 and -3 HO placement was fortuitous in creating minimal destructive cancellation.

I'll ask Dr. Hsu to take a look at your diagram tomorrow.

Sincerely,

[n737nc]

Nick, did you try recalibrating after moving the subs? What level is the gain set on the -3 HO and MBM amps? Does it make any difference when inverting the phase?

The problem with having two subs in different locations playing the same frequencies is that there can be some cancellation. It's possible that your original -3 Mk2 and -3 HO placement was fortuitous in creating minimal destructive cancellation.

I'll ask Dr. Hsu to take a look at your diagram tomorrow.

Sincerely,



Yes I did recalibrate after moving. HO and MBM are both set at about the 12 O'clock position.

I'd really appreciate it if he could take a look at the diagram. His input would be greatly appreciated! I know I don't have the most ideal locations available. But I'll do whatever I can to get these things sounding right. Maybe I just need to take a sub out of the mix? I'm guessing that the -3 MKII would be the looser if that situation comes up? Keeping the HO and MBM?
I'm also getting ready to get some readings from REW. I may be able to get those this afternoon. I still have to learn the program though.

Thanks for your help Pete!

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi Nick,

The volume/gain setting on your HO and MBM-12 seem quite high. The HO normally doesn't need to be set above 9 or 10 o'clock, and the MBM normally doesn't need to be set above 9 o'clock.

What type of receiver/processor are you using?

One thing you should try doing is keeping the phase on the HO and MBM as is, and then inverting the phase on the -3 Mk2 to see if that helps.

According to Dr. Hsu, it would be fine to use the -3 HO/t and MBM in the nearfield side wall, with the -3 Mk2 up front. Set the crossover 'in' on the -3 HO/t and -3 Mk2, crossover set at 50Hz, and run them from 50Hz on down with the MBM handling mid-bass.

Let me know how it goes...

Thanks

[n737nc]

Thanks Pete.

Preamp is a Sherwood P-965.


So, set the phase on the HO and MBM at "0", then set the phase on th MKII at 180?

I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I tried so many options last night, not sure if I tried this or not :(

[Pete_Hsu]

Yeah, give that a shot. Also, try lowering the gain on the HO and MBM amplifiers.

[Pete_Hsu]

Nick, one more thing. Does your Sherwood have some type of auto-eq setup? Any information you could provide on how you calibrated and how you have set up things using your preamp would be helpful. Thanks!

[n737nc]

Will do. But it doesn't put out a lot of sound when I drop them down to the 9 o'clock position. I'm running the subs at +2 out of the reciever. Should I bump that up a little? Otherwise, the subs are way too low comparied to the rest of the system.

I'll play with it more this afternoon, heading home in about an hour.

Thanks for talking me through this. I really appreciate it!

Nick

[Pete_Hsu]

Yes, it should be ok to bump up the subwoofer level on the receiver a bit more.

Also note the post I added just above asking about whether or not the Sherwood has an auto-eq feature, how you went about calibrating, and general preamp settings and config. According to Dr. Hsu, there were some issues with the auto-eq feature on some Sherwood processors, including instances where the subwoofer level was getting set 10db too low.

Sincerely,

[n737nc]

Nick, one more thing. Does your Sherwood have some type of auto-eq setup? Any information you could provide on how you calibrated and how you have set up things using your preamp would be helpful. Thanks!



Yes, the Sherwood does have an auto EQ system(they call it SNAP). When I run the auto calibration through the Sherwood, it automatically EQ's the system for the room. I have the ability to turn the EQ function off, but if I want it back on, I have to do the auto calibration again.

I never thought of turning that off. Yet another thing to play with .... :D

[Pete_Hsu]

Yup, try turning that off. Dr. Hsu indicated to me that there were some issues when using that with respect to the subwoofer calibration.

[n737nc]

Ahhh, will do. Heading home now. Will report back later today with something good.....I hope :D

[Pete_Hsu]

Sounds good...

[Pete_Hsu]

Hey Nick, have you updated the P-965 with the latest firmware upgrade? It can be downloaded here (just click on "firmware update-version 4.1"):

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_p965.html

It might not hurt calling Sherwood tech support also to see if this firmware update fixes the auto-eq issue where the subwoofer channel is calibrated 10db too low: 1-800-962-3203 ext 115, Mon-Fri 8am-5pm PST

[n737nc]

Pete,

Yes I do have the updated version. I actually had to send it off for the upgrade, along with getting the "SNAP" upgrade. So the preamp is up to specs. Although I don't know if that correct the 10db sub problem from the past.

After messing with everything last night, I think I've got it sounding pretty good. I have a few more adjustments to make, but it was late last night, and I needed to quit before I pissed the neighbors off :D

Right now I'm working with REW, and hope to get that all figured out by this evening. I'd really like to get some reading on these subs, and figure out what they are doing.

Thanks again for the help. Hopfully I'll get all of this stuff figured out this week.