VTF-3 MKII or TN1220?

[Active Speaker]

I can buy either one; what are the pros & cons of each one. Also, which can go lower, is more transparent, and is more placement-tolerant?

[Sorny]

The TN is the flagship HSU subwoofer. I have been told that the TN goes lower with greater output (I'm assuming mostly due to larger port area), and has less coloration to the sound. The VTF can get louder in the max output mode than a TN, but will not go as deep.

As to placement flexibility, that depends. The VTF could be used as an end table, whereas you can lay a TN down behind a couch, or stand it in a corner (also valid with VTF).

I've got a pair of TN subs and love them. Dr. HSU says the VTF and TN sound much alike, and from that I can say either will make you happy. I'd suggest a TN with the 500W amp; this way, you can add another TN later if you "need" more bass. :D

Sorny

[Active Speaker]

Thanks Sorny. I got an email from Dr. Hsu stating much the same thing. I found two small pieces of luggage which stacked together are the same approximate size as the new VTF-3 MKII. This really demonstrated the SIZE of this sub; it is impressive. However, in the relatively tight quarters I have available for placement, and considering its weight (which would make the task of positioning quite daunting despite the fact that it is beautiful & impressive!), I have decided to go with the TN1220 & 500 watt amp. It may not be as visually impressive (although it is quite attractive), or as solid-looking (I wonder if the TN1220 is as durable?), but I think it will be, ironically (depite its long cylindrical shape), easier to position in the best location in my room.

[Lwang]

The 1220 with the 500w amp would also allow for a 2nd 1220 to be added w/o the needed expense of a extra amplification. Plus the 500w amp has alot more flexibility, especialy when used for bi-amplification in 2ch or even HT environment when used in no sub mode. Things like much lower xo freq than THX spec, overlapping or underlapping xo point to overcome room peaks/nulls, etc.

[david_da_kine]

I have the TN with the 250 watt amp, and I cannot image ever needing more power or more bass. The only drawback is that the amp is unattractive, unless you're a DIY kind of person.

[Michael Bain]

Yes, the 250 watt amp is a stand-alone plate amp and not much of a looker. The 500 watt amp is very attractive and solid.

[Yohann]

I have also decided that I want the TN, partly due to the lack of floor space and the SAF factor in our living room, and party because I have the Telarc Version of the 1812 Overture. :p Oh yeah, I also love organ music and extreemly low bass.

[Ddavidson]

It is no coincidence that they sound similar because except for the porting they are pretty much the same. The biggest difference is the big 4" x 28 1/4" long port that gives the bottom end of the TN1220 a much flatter balanced FR way down to below 16Hz. Above about 22Hz the 3" single port on the VTF-3 is really no handicap and the VTF-3 actually has more output above

You really start pushing some major air through the 3" port at below 20Hz and this is where the TN shines. That's not to say the VTF-3 is a sloutch as its an "industry leader" and its FR is still stunningly flat over its operating range. For us fussy listeners it can have a slight bit of port noise on those sustained 16Hz notes that the organ loves to deliver at volume. The big 4" on the TN has none.

If your wife lets you have the 1220 + 500w then thats what you should get for sure, but if she is not impressed by the cloth covered tube look, then do not fret because the VTF-3 will not disappoint you one bit. I know I own both and my wife hates the look of the TN with a passion. She loves my VTF-3 however so I did not lose too much out of the deal.

Ddavidson

[Active Speaker]

Ddavidson,

Since you have both subs, what is the actual size of the VTF-3? Does it differ from the listed specs? Also, how do each of the subs sound on music? Is either more transparent?

Thanks.

[Ddavidson]

As mentioned the TN + 500w amp is the better sub. After a few listens no one is ever going to doubt the TN is a brilliant sub that can directly compete with anything. (without looking silly). I do not seperate "better" for describing music and HT, because to me the sub either accurate or its not. Both the VTF-3 and the TN are accurate subs, with the TN adding the cream to an already hot apple pie.

Put it this way if the VTF-3 was an 8.25 out of 10 then the TN1220 + 500w would score 9.25 out of 10. In real terms to "most people" its probably a pubic hair. In audiophile terms it's a win to the TN and a lose to the VTF. Some people pay mega bucks for much smaller differences and some people simply could never hear the difference if you where physically belting them over the head with the sub.

If your anal about your sound and do not have a WAF thing with the cloth cylinder, then the TN is the only answer for you. If you do not like the 51" tall x 12" dia cloth covered cylinder look - then simply get the VTF-3. My wife made me put mine in the garage and she will not let it in the house. She calls it the ugliest giant covered toilet roll that she has ever seen. Mind you she also hated my super expensive Audio Research amps and made me put them in the garage as well. She says its visual pollution to have such ugly things in her house.

Because Hsu subs are designed so well you soon notice that all Hsu subs have a very similar tonality, where most other subs are specifically designed to be biased towards explosions and special effects.

The VTF-3 MK2 have quite different physical measurements than my unit which is the original textured finished front firing VTF-3. The MK2 is the going to be the same measurements as the current VTF-3R (rosewood). So I can not confirm how accurate they measure. Heaven knows when the MK2 will actually ship because we have gone from Oct to Feb and I still see no concrete evidence that it will actually ship on the 12th Feb. The VTF-3R however is shipping but not yet with the 350w Bash amp that the MK2 will have.

Looking at the Secrets review the VTF-3R might become the VTF-3R MK2?
Note: Dr. Hsu informed me that starting in January 2004, the VTF-3R will be updated with a new and more powerful amplifier. Also, it will be available in piano black finish. The new version will carry lower retail price as well, $799 for the piano black finish and $899 for the rosewood finish.



- Yongki Go -
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/hsu-vtf-3r-subwoofer-1-2004.html


Ddavidson

[Active Speaker]

Originally posted by Ddavidson
If your anal about your sound and do not have a WAF thing with the cloth cylinder, then the TN is the only answer for you. If you do not like the 51" tall x 12" dia cloth covered cylinder look - then simply get the VTF-3. My wife made me put mine in the garage and she will not let it in the house. She calls it the ugliest giant covered toilet roll that she has ever seen. Mind you she also hated my super expensive Audio Research amps and made me put them in the garage as well. She says its visual pollution to have such ugly things in her house.

Because Hsu subs are designed so well you soon notice that all Hsu subs have a very similar tonality, where most other subs are specifically designed to be biased towards explosions and special effects.




I do have a WAF thing, & she's kind of wigged out about the large black cylinder; could it be covered by another surface such as laminate instead of the cloth?

Also, Why don't you do what I do with my amps: put them in a backless cabinet?

[Lwang]

The 1220 cylinders are narrow enough that they could fit behind many things that has roughly 12" of clearance behind them. Behind some cabinets, sofa, etc.

Also, I wouldn't put my class-A Krell in a cabinet. The lesser amps (center/surround) goes there.

[Nigel_Pl]

You could use the VTF-3 as a side table next to the couch. Some of you guys sound like you have some major issues with the spouses lol. All that expensive sound equipment in the garage? I'd make sure her shoes end up in the garage too :D

[Active Speaker]

Just how top-heavy is the TN1220 HO? I do not have ANY area where I can lay it horizontally; can it be stabilized somehow without causing rattles?

[Nigel_Pl]

Its a little top heavy but as long as it is in a corner the chances of someone knockng it over will be pretty slim. Mine has never fallen over.