Weak bass from receiver?

[andyg]

Let me first say that my Hsu 2.3 seems to be working perfectly fine, but I'm concerned about my receiver (Onkyo 605). It just doesn't seem to be outputting bass at a reasonable level.

Strangely, the LFE channel (explosions, car crashes, tidal waves, you get the idea...) from dvd's will knock my socks off. But any musical bass, from movies, cd, tv, games, doesn't matter... it's virtually non-existent.

For example, playing the Hsu Test CD I have to literally crank the sub to max to hear the organ. This can't be right. And yet I'm afraid the neighbors will be complaining when the aliens emerge in War of the Worlds. Doesn't make sense.

So while I realize this is off topic, I thought I'd post here before I conclude I have a bum receiver. Thanks for any comments or thoughts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/amyart02/605_stack.jpg

[thsmith]

Are your speakerts set for large or small ? Try small.

[andyg]

Are your speakerts set for large or small ? Try small.

They are definitely set to small. (Audessy initially set the front Left and Right to "Full Band"...that didnt really help the bass still). At any rate, I switched them to SMALL once the sub arrived.

[kmitchell]

Hi Andy,

I'm not sure about the Onkyo but the Denon I have has separate channel level settings for different output modes. I set "Stereo" and "7 Channel Stereo" differently then I do the surround modes.

What I think you are seeing is what I verified using Spectrum Lab and that is that there isn't much bass content in TV, video games, and even on some music CDs. Particularly with your crossover set at 100Hz you may not get that much sub activity other than from DVD, HD, etc. If you have a laptop try hooking it up to one of the Onkyo audio monitor outputs and run Spectrum Lab to see what's coming out.

The part that you said that doesn't fit with my thoughts is that the HSU Test CD is even very low. This supports that maybe you have separate settings for the different output modes. If explosions are knocking your socks off then the HSU Test CD should be nearly breaking things.

Hope this helps,
Ken

[Pete_Hsu]

Andy, are you connecting the subwoofer using a single-ended rca cable from the subwoofer output in the pre-out section of the receiver, to the 'sub in' on the subwoofer (with crossover switch set to 'Out' on the sub)?

[andyg]

Andy, are you connecting the subwoofer using a single-ended rca cable from the subwoofer output in the pre-out section of the receiver, to the 'sub in' on the subwoofer (with crossover switch set to 'Out' on the sub)?

Yes, here's an image of the config:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/amyart02/inputs.jpg

I'll run some more tests tonight. But again I dont think it's a subwoofer problem.

[Pete_Hsu]

Andy, note that most music content (especially older CD's) don't have very much deep bass, so the subwoofer won't appear to be moving a lot of air with music. For the pipe organ track, try plugging one port and switching the sub amp to the '1 port open' mode. Do you still need to crank up the volume to hear the organ pedal notes at the end of track 1 on the test CD? Also, as an experiment, you can try inverting the phase on the subwoofer to see if you get more output near the crossover region.

[bsoko]

Yes, here's an image of the config:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/amyart02/inputs.jpg

I'll run some more tests tonight. But again I dont think it's a subwoofer problem.


use a "Y" splitter on the sub and connect to both R & L. Sometimes this makes a difference.

Bill

[Pete_Hsu]

One thing I forgot to ask you, Andy: are you using one player for DVD's, and a separate player for CD's?

[andyg]

One thing I forgot to ask you, Andy: are you using one player for DVD's, and a separate player for CD's?

Same player, same connection, same listening mode, and so on. It's got me baffled. I'll be investigating further of course.

Thanks for spending time trying to help out guys. :o

[Pete_Hsu]

And when you play 2 channel CD's, what does it say on the front panel of your receiver (the place where it would normally say "Dolby Digital" etc)? It wouldn't hurt to take a quick look at your DVD player's setup menu to see if anything is amiss.

[andyg]

And when you play 2 channel CD's, what does it say on the front panel of your receiver

From the dvd player: "PCM fs: 44.1kHz"
From the standard CD player, nothing is displayed because it's using red/white rca cables (although I usually employ Neo:6 mode for 7.1 playback).

Did some more testing just now... I'm able to get decent music bass from the sub when I upped the volume dial to "noon" from nine-o'clock. Played the test track and while I definitely feel air moving, it didn't have anywhere near the impact of a movie. Kind of sounded like a deep rumbling helicopter on the final organ hit of track 1.

Obviously turning up the volume on the sub itself had HUGE effect when I then tried a movie. Just to illustrate, I had to turn the sub level on the receiver to -13 just to be comfortable and not shake the house.

My hope is that me (and the wife) won't have to do adjustments like this when we switch back and forth between music/movies.

At any rate, I'm taking the test disc to a friends house with an identical receiver (but smaller sub) just to compare and see if his theater has similar results.

Thanks again for your time Pete!

[Pete_Hsu]

So Andy, you are using separate DVD and CD players? Could you describe how you are connecting the CD player to the receiver?

Usually most people prefer to turn the sub volume +3db higher for movies compared to music. Definitely strange that you have to turn it up so much higher for music...

[andyg]

So Andy, you are using separate DVD and CD players? Could you describe how you are connecting the CD player to the receiver?

It's more DVD movie vs the bass of every other input (cd, nintendo wii, television, and so on). For example, I watched LOST on TV last night...I simply upped the sub channel on the receiver +10. Sounded great, and bass mixed in nicely. Same as I have done with music, and so on.

Again I just reduce the sub channel back down -10 if I have to watch movies. Annoying to do but that's how it is at the moment.

I did a little experiment last night though. A friend of mine has a decent 6.1 theater in his basement, Onkyo receiver, speakers, and sub. I've watched movies at his place and while his sub can't touch the VTF 2.3, the movie bass is impactful and solid.

I had zero influence on his setup so I thought it would be insightful to see how his theater handled music.

I asked if he would play the BAS test cd. We played track 1, sure enough, the sub's bass was "barely there". My friend was surprised. He wanted to try a CD from his collection he was more familiar with. Again, minimal bass situation identical to what I experienced in my theater.

Just to compare, we then played Phantom of the Opera on DVD. The organ notes hit us in the gut as expected.

So while this was very unscientific, it made me feel a little better that I'm not the only one with a large differential between DVD bass and everything else.

At this point I'll just make do with the situation, and keep on researching. I'll report back when I discover anything. :)

[bsoko]

Music and movie bass are not the same. Subs do not have one setting for all. You have to experiment and when you have the setting that you want for either movie or music, mark it down on a sheet of paper and keep it handy. Also on your reciever you can save diferent presets. Change the setting on the sub to whatever you are playing. This is the very reason that Velodyne makes a remote for their subs that have presets for this very thing. Velodyne does make a unit called "SMS-1" that can control up to 3 subs at once and it also has progamible presets. I wish that HSU did the same thing.

Bill

[andyg]

Music and movie bass are not the same.

Thanks for the info, Bill. I guess my expectations were off. I'll look into saving presets on the receiver... that could save a lot of annoyance when switching between components.

Thanks again for your thoughts everyone.

[bsoko]

You will also get used to noticing where you turn the sub volume know to by the slot (cut groove)on the knob. I have mine set at 9:00 and then up 2 slots for music and the same for the MBM's for hip-hop.

Bill

[andyg]

You will also get used to noticing where you turn the sub volume know to by the slot
Bill

Here's my deal-- With my current settings, all I am getting is the low one-tone rumbles and booms of the movie LFE's. Not rich at all. Like I said, if I want to get just a hint of movie music bass I have to up the receiver's sub setting by +10. Frankly I don't want my house shaking during some scenes just to get reasonable tuba bass during an orchestral section. Something aint right, and I'm somewhat frustrated.

[bsoko]

Does your DVD/CD player have some internal settings for speakers or LFE? If so, are you using a HDMI, Composite, or 5 channel out on your DVD/CD player?

Bill

[bsoko]

I checked all my settings on my setup - I have a Pio '94 and I'm sure that your reciever has similar settings and all I can come up with that it HAS to be your DVD/CD player settings. Somewhere in your menu setup you have something set wrong. Please go thru those settings. I have my subs and reciever setup now to play whatever (music, movies, tv) with one sub/reciever setting. So it is possible to do this. Please feel free to call me at 360-456-8255 if you want to talk about possible solutions.

Bill:)