Any surge protector suggestions?

[smartbot]

I'm looking for the best surge protector/line conditioner $100 will get me.

Any suggestions???

[BeFree]

For less than one-half of your budgeted amount, you can get a 6-outlet TrippLite Isobar. These surge protectors are used commercially to protect business machines, including servers and other electronically sensitive computer equipment costing tens of thousands of dollars. Like most other things in the audio world, you have to be very careful about marketing hype. Whatever you get, make sure it has isolated filtering capability.

I use a couple of these surge protectors in my system and they cost me about $40 bucks each from Amazon.com. Plan on spending more if you need additional inputs on the surge protector for satellite dishes, etc.

[Active Speaker]

Don't use one; unplug your equipment from the wall after each usage, unplug it from the back of the sub.

[smartbot]

Wow, I've never heard of anyone unplugging their equipment everytime they use it. I guess that would be fine if you didn't turn it of and on much. I personally turn my system on and off about three to four times everyday, weekends even more. That would get old pretty quick for me.

Beside the piont that it seems to me that a surge of damaging power could occur whilst using your equipment. I'm no worry wart but I do think it wise to potect your investments. I am also interested in conditioning the power abit. I live in the highest elevation in the city of Atlanta. I seem to pick up radio signals that affect my phone line and A/V system.

I was looking at the Panamax Max 4300 anybody familiar with this line?

Thanks

[Retread]

Originally posted by smartbot
Wow, I've never heard of anyone unplugging their equipment everytime they use it. I guess that would be fine if you didn't turn it of and on much. I personally turn my system on and off about three to four times everyday, weekends even more. That would get old pretty quick for me.
Thanks

I'm with you on this, and I live at a place the Apaches call "thunder mountain." I have uninterruptable power for my computers, because they really don't like to have power go out. For the rest of my gear, I use ordinary surge suppressors. Nothing fancy.

[BeFree]

It's plain bad advice to tell someone not to use a surge protector. If you have a couple thousand bucks or more tied up in your AV gear, why not spend a few bucks on surge protection? Three years ago, I fried a motherboard on my computer because I didn't have proper protection, so I learned my lesson.

[Retread]

surge suppression is not the ultimate solution. A computer connected to a phone line, or even a wired Ethernet, is susceptible to other paths to destruction. A nearby lightning stroke can induce big voltages in communications house wiring, thereby frying computers. One of my clients lost a bunch of computers this way. Lightning struck the street outside his building and killed his LAN and all the computer stuff connected to it. All of his wiring (power and phone) was correctly grounded. I imagine the same thing could happen to some of the wires connecting audio components together, if the wires are susceptible.

[sputnikv8]

Originally posted by Retread
surge suppression is not the ultimate solution. A computer connected to a phone line, or even a wired Ethernet, is susceptible to other paths to destruction. A nearby lightning stroke can induce big voltages in communications house wiring, thereby frying computers. One of my clients lost a bunch of computers this way. Lightning struck the street outside his building and killed his LAN and all the computer stuff connected to it. All of his wiring (power and phone) was correctly grounded. I imagine the same thing could happen to some of the wires connecting audio components together, if the wires are susceptible.

No doubt there are many ways equipment gets "fried", but, it seems reasonable to me to use a surge protector (including cable/satellite protection) to minimize or eliminate a couple paths. Sure, something worse could happen, but, I wouldn't go with nothing at all.

[Active Speaker]

Surge suppressors suppress the audio signal; computers are different. Sound quality is much more important than convenience IMHO. There are components that do not negatively impact the sound, but they are usually too expensive for most people; or, to put it another way, people who are squeamish about spending money on tweaks that will improve the sound (not placebo) that cost from $100 up will not want to lay down the money necessary for high quality surge suppressors. So, with that in mind, unplug your components from the wall unless they are disposable.

The notion that your equipment is any safer with these cheap surge suppressors that have become popular is just ridiculous. If anything comes down your lines of any consequence, your equipment is a goner anyway. And your equipment should be stout enough to resist normal electrical conditions for as long as you care to own it.

I frankly find it ironic that some of the main believers in surge suppresors are unwilling to believe that power cables make a difference in sound quality.

[Retread]

Surge Supressors on the power lines suppress the audio signal? If there is audio on the power lines, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

There is an entire field of electrics dealing with grounding, bonding, and shielding. It might be appropriate for folks propounding on this subject to read a few references such as the National Electric Code.

[smartbot]

Active speaker,

These are interesting comments. I do agree that sound quality is more important than convenience, but as I said before unplugging all my equipment every time I use it is not an option for me. At the same time I do applaud your determination to do so every time you use your equipment. Let me ask you though about times you are using you equipment. Do you believe that damaging surges would only happen whilst a storm was occurring, which in turn you would prohibit use?

I think it might also be good to differentiate on something. You have mentioned the fact of upgraded power cords and comparing waste others are making when buying things as surge suppressors. I wish to state that the vast majority of people buying surge protectors are trying to protect their equipment not upgrade their audio as one might do if they thought power cord upgrades worked.

I would be interested in how the surge protector suppresses the audio signal and where you found this information.

Am I right in saying that you believe unless one is to spend $200 to $300 and up that its not going to protect you equipment from a substantial power surge? Since I am in the market can you suggest any? The way I figure is that I have thousands of dollars in A/V equipment and a $500 insurance deductible. If I spent $200 on one of those working surge protectors I could save myself $300 bucks! Wouldn't you agree this is wise spending?

[Retread]

Originally posted by sputnikv8
No doubt there are many ways equipment gets "fried", but, it seems reasonable to me to use a surge protector (including cable/satellite protection) to minimize or eliminate a couple paths. Sure, something worse could happen, but, I wouldn't go with nothing at all.

Never plug in without it.

I was merely pointing out that power line and TV cable surge supressors don't necessarily eliminate all the potential surge paths. For instance, one of my computers is connected to my front projector for display and to my receiver for audio. Were my computer also connected to the phone system, or to a wired Ethernet in my house, there would be other paths for lightning to get in and destroy the system that most people would not think about. My home network is wireless Ethernet, so I don't have that potential failure mechanism.

[Active Speaker]

Smartbot,

I understand the dilemma that surge suppression provides; after my first couple of years involved in audio, I stopped using them. I have used my a/v system every day for hours for 2 decades, & I have NEVER lost a component. Lightning can OVERRUN a surge suppressor and still fry your components (I'm sure Retread will post another VOODOO ALERT or whatever he deems necessary since his training/teaching/research/education has moved him beyond the realm of the experiential to a higher plane of electrical hi fi nirvana which the rest of us can merely aspire to in our spare time). I have seen two computer systems fried that were connected to surge protectors during lightning storms so I know this is possible.

What am I basing this on? When I began to suspect that surge suppressors were limiting the sound quality (particularly dynamics, sound stage, and transparency), I called EACH MANUFACTURER of every component in my system and asked them the preferred method for connecting their components. They all told me the best was directly into the wall, or in lieu of that, into a high quality power strip; they did not recommend surge suppressors as they interfered with the sonic performance of their product (Rotel, Bryston, Theta, Pioneer Elite, Toshiba, B&K). I was skeptical at first, but since I already noticed a difference before I called, this was enough confirmation for me.

My comment concerning super expensive surge suppressors was directed towards those who want to use them and not suffer any sonic degradation. I simply use two high quality power strips (auralthrillsaudio.com, signalcable.com, etc... or a heavy duty generic one) for my system, and I unplug these from the wall after I am done listening. I suppose you could also plug these into low cost surge suppressors for when you have company or there are people using your system who can't deal with the extra effort of plugging/unplugging or you don't notice a sonic difference while using a surge suppressor. I don't expect anyone else to do things the way I do; I'm just sharing my strategies.

[Sasha_G]

I don't think a surge supressor will effect the sound in any noticable way, and is a good idea. You don't need a $100 one.

There are a few electonic issues of note:

1) The farther your outlet is from the breaker, the more current that is lost in house wiring. Extension cords are guilty of this. The maximum output capacity of a product can be a LITTLE dependent on this, and would be measurable with a 20 foot extension cord.

2) Low voltage will reduce maximum output as well. You could use our subs in Japan with their lower voltage, but with reduced maximum output.

3) ground loop problems are the biggest culprit in deteriorating sound quality, and IN GENERAL effects sound MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than distance from the breaker or voltage that is a little low.

So, getting a ground loop isolator at Parts Express for $15 will improve the sound more than a $100 part will, IF the problem is with the ground.

Here is the link to the ground loop isolator for Cable TV http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=18383449&St=1535&St2=64201554&St3=-55957076&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=16262&DID=7

[ILv2Xlr8]

If your home is wired correctly, than you should not have to worry about the other paths of possible surges. Then again, most homes are not wired correctly, so having a surge suppressor on all electrical paths will help.

NEC code states that all electrical paths that enter the home are grounded at the point of entry to the home at the same point, the main electrical disconnect. This means your cable, satelite, phone, irrigations systems, low votage, gas lines, etc. all need to be grounded at the same point, usually <18" from the big electrical meter stuck on the side of you home.

The most common problem is when your cable or satelite is not grounded at the point of entry into the home, and creates a huge ground loop between your house and the cable box or dish in your yard somewhere, just wating for a lightning strike within 1 mile that can discharge its energy into your home.

Take a look at how all your stuff is setup...

[Retread]

If the "hot wire" for your electrical system were grounded, you'd have no voltage. The hot wire is NOT grounded. It constitutes a path through which electrical spikes can come into your home and fry your electronics. A surge supressor knocks the spikes off the wire.

Another potential source of fried electronics is non-electrical wiring. A nearby lightining strike can induce large voltages in such wiring and get into electronics by paths other than the power wiring. An example is through interior telephone wiring, to which the computer may be connected, and to which the home theater may be connected. This obviously can be a complex problem.

TV cables are always grounded and should have lightning arrestors. The issue is that they may be grounded at a potential that is different from the electrical ground. This results in hum. An isolation transformer (which is not the same as a surge supressor) is needed to eliminate this component of hum.

Even with the TV cable isolated, there can still be hum problems. One common source of hum is reversals of the electrical ground and neutral wires in a home 3-wire system. This causes large circulating currents in the house wire, which cause hum.

As the numbers of electronic components in the system increases, the numbers of ways in which hum and other bad things can affect the system go up with them.

[heffalump]

For less than 15% of your budget, you could order the Belkin F9G1033-12 Pure A/V Surge Protector with Coax Ports.
Be aware this unit offered by TigerDirect (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=172512&sku=B20-2236) is factory recertified with a short warranty so YMMV. Belkin's (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=130739) Online price for a new one with lifetime warranty is $119.99.

[heffalump]

Beware surge supression units that utilize Metal Oxide Varistors (MOV's) will degrade with use. After silently doing their job protecting your sensitive equipment from transient surges, they lose some their ability to protect your equipment until eventually you're left with a multi outlet extension cord.

I'm also wary of companies that have so much marketing muscle, it makes me wonder if they're spending more selling the sizzle than on making the steak.

One company that's the opposite is Transtector Systems (http://www.transtector.com/). These guys seem more interested in science. Their products are used in industrial applications like banks and hospitals. IMO, their website and product guide are painful to navigate and read for non-scientists like me. While I discovered they use Silicon based diodes for transient suppression instead of MOV's, I stopped short of finding a product applicable to HT equipment b/c their product names were cryptic and site navigation was so difficult.