The ULS-15 is here!!!

[Pete_Hsu]

Hello everyone,

Today, just hours before our great July 4 Independence day (and holiday! :) ) we are extremely proud to announce the introduction of the brand new ULS-15, Ultra Linear Sealed subwoofer. This is the biggest new product introduction for Hsu Research since the original VTF-2 launched in 1997.

The ULS-15 subwoofer in Satin Black is ready for purchase right now!

ULS-15 product page: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls15.html

ULS-15 DualDrive product page: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls15dualdrive.html

ULS-15 QuadDrive product page: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls15quaddrive.html

Here are some highlights:

Driver
• 15” woofer!
• XBL2 TM linear motor technology
• +/- 33 mm Xmax
• Motor force (BL) stays within 2% over a very wide +/- 20 mm excursion
• Triple shorting rings for virtually non-existant flux modulation distortion
• Butyl foam surround that provides the durability of a butyl rubber surround with the lighter moving mass of a foam surround

Amplifier
• Wireless connectivity using 2.4 Ghz wireless transmitter with four position channel selector switch!
• More inputs than any other sub we know of: Wireless L/R inputs, Balanced XLR L/R inputs, unbalanced rca L/R inputs, and speaker level inputs
• 1000w RMS short-term power, our most powerful amplifier ever
• ULF Trim control that allows one to take advantage of room gain by adjusting the rolloff frequency anywhere between 16-50Hz

Enclosure
• Compact sealed box, designed, tested, AND assembled in the USA!
• 18” cubed enclosure size (19”x18”x20” HxWxD including feet, grille, and amp heatsink)
• More finish options than we have ever had before: Satin Black standard finish, and several luxury finishes such as Maple Wood Veneer, Espresso Wood Veneer, Rosenut Wood Veneer, and Piano Gloss Black. Note that the luxury finishes will be available by August.
• Magnetic grille for clean front face

Pricing
• ULS-15 QuadDrive – Quad 15” woofers, 4000w RMS short-term power
o $3,999 in Satin Black (available now)
o $4,299 in Wood Veneer (available later this summer)
o $4,599 in Piano Gloss Black (available later this summer)


• ULS-15 DualDrive – Dual 15” woofers, 2000w RMS short-term power
o $2,199 in Satin Black (available now)
o $2,349 in Wood Veneer (available later this summer)
o $2,499 in Piano Gloss Black (available later this summer)


• ULS-15 – Single 15” woofer, 1000w RMS short-term power
o $1,299 in Satin Black (available now)
o $1,399 in Wood Veneer (available later this summer)
o $1,499 in Piano Gloss Black (available later this summer)

• We truly put our heart and soul into designing and building this product here at our facility in Southern California. I hope you enjoy it!

[lradden]

I'm speachless. All I can manage to write at this moment is:

DAAAAAAAAAAMMNNNNN:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[thsmith]

Wireless !

[JICRO]

The new unit looks great. Congratulations!

I guess the main question is related to output...Even with the excellent Linear Xmax capability, as a sealed box, how well does it keep up with your big vented rigs at 20Hz?

[lalakersfan34]

Wow, looks great! I'll admit my first impression was that it looks like a much bigger, meaner SB12-Plus - especially because of the classy finishes (hope I don't get into trouble for making a comparison to an SVS here!). The wireless looks like a really good idea. This sub is certainly a looker and has very high WAF, and the wireless connectivity allows it to be placed virtually anywhere while retaining its elegant, tidy look :). I'd love to demo one sometime, as I live within an hour or so of Hsu headquarters. The only problem is I'm afraid I could never enjoy my own setup again, and I don't have the money to upgrade! Anyway, looking forward to seeing some benchmarks. Overall, this sub looks like a job very well done. Great work Dr. Hsu!

[lanion]

Duals ordered . Super excited!

[mwr0707]

Congrats.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/ULS-15_001.jpg



· We truly put our heart and soul into designing and building this product here at our facility in Southern California. I hope you enjoy it!

[mperry]

When does the discount multiple promotion end?

[Pete_Hsu]

Thank you so much for all the compliments guys, I think Dr. Hsu will be very happy to see it!

I can honestly say that the 16-19Hz organ pedals on the new sub sound cleaner to me than any of our other subs. The DualDrive and QuadDrive systems in particular are quite formidable in terms of deep bass extension and output.

Note that in the 16Hz ULF Trim mode, the subwoofer starts rolling off gently below 16Hz when measured outside and away from reflective boundaries. To take advantage of room gain in small or medium sized rooms, one can adjust the knob to a higher frequency as high as 50Hz. So in many rooms people should get good response down to 10Hz with room gain factored in. In some instances, by utilizing the ULF Trim control to roll off deeper bass, people can get higher output capability over the more common ranges too.

Thanks!

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Don't forget to make the OctoDrive page!

[cacihome]

Excellent work HSU Research!!!!!

Ordered one of those things already!
Very excited!
33mm xmax oh god...15" driver...wireless...Oh God!

So Pete,

How much does the actual driver weigh?

[Tomorrow]

'Tis a fabulous new product. Congrats Hsu!

[Ddavidson]

Well done Dr Hsu.

It is just what the doctor ordered.

A great new flagship.

Superb as usual.

Ddavidson

[cschang]

Don't forget to make the OctoDrive page!

:eek:

[ZuN]

I just got home with my pair, I will let you know how they sound in a while:D :D :D

[cschang]

I just got home with my pair, I will let you know how they sound in a while:D :D :D
Please let us know how it sounds with and without the MBM-12's.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

:eek:

I think I'll need your help Curtis!

[Pete_Hsu]

Don't forget to make the OctoDrive page!

LOL, oh my word Ron, I seriously think that you will some day be the first to reach the OctoDrive system, and I can't wait to see the look on Dr. Hsu's face when he hears it in your room. :D

Your pictures of the box do remind me of something though: the shipping weight on the box is wrong! It says 82 pounds shipped, but the actually shipping weight is 94 pounds!

Caci, the driver itself weighs about 40 pounds. It's not insanely heavy like some other drivers on the market. We spent a good amount of time working to achieve very high excursion and very low distortion from the driver without making it super heavy.

So do I need to convert to metric system? I'm not sure if you guys use that in Puerto Rico? :D

[Pete_Hsu]

I just got home with my pair, I will let you know how they sound in a while:D :D :D

I'm so much looking forward to it! I'd love to hear about what your wife says too :D

[cschang]

I think I'll need your help Curtis!

HA.....you will need a mop to wipe up my drool.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

LOL, oh my word Ron, I seriously think that you will some day be the first to reach the OctoDrive system, and I can't wait to see the look on Dr. Hsu's face when he hears it in your room. :D

If the ULS-15's were burgers, and they are BEEFY... I got the very first quarter pounder already... next week I'll super size it.

[Pete_Hsu]

When does the discount multiple promotion end?

It doesn't! Those are and will be the standard Dual and Quad prices...

[cacihome]

LOL, oh my word Ron, I seriously think that you will some day be the first to reach the OctoDrive system, and I can't wait to see the look on Dr. Hsu's face when he hears it in your room. :D

Your pictures of the box do remind me of something though: the shipping weight on the box is wrong! It says 82 pounds shipped, but the actually shipping weight is 94 pounds!

Caci, the driver itself weighs about 40 pounds. It's not insanely heavy like some other drivers on the market. We spent a good amount of time working to achieve very high excursion and very low distortion from the driver without making it super heavy.

So do I need to convert to metric system? I'm not sure if you guys use that in Puerto Rico? :D

For a 15" It is heavy enough...
Nah.... I think I got it....JAJAJA The Internet has good converters....
Almost 3" peak to peak right?

[Pete_Hsu]

If the ULS-15's were burgers, and they are BEEFY... I got the very first quarter pounder already... next week I'll super size it.

I know exactly what you mean. The bass is so clean and addicting from these compact subs that you really can never have enough. I always tell people there is no such thing as overkill!

[Pete_Hsu]

Nah.... I think I got it....JAJAJA
Almost 3" peak to peak right?

LOL, yeah, something like that. But still, keep in mind that most woofers with +/- 30 mm Xmax will be lucky to have a 2% variance in BL over +/- 5 mm of stroke. So the fact that this driver can do that to +/- 20 mm is pretty impressive, all things considered.

[cacihome]

LOL, yeah, something like that. But still, keep in mind that most woofers with +/- 30 mm Xmax will be lucky to have a 2% variance in BL over +/- 5 mm of stroke. So the fact that this driver can do that to +/- 20 mm is pretty impressive, all things considered.

Yep, It looks as impressive as it sounded in the CES...Now I know why it sounded so good!!!:D
Let me try it when it arrives home and I will report back lots of info...

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Pete, can you run wireless base on say channel 6 and have all the ULS-15's run from one, or do they have to be on independent channels?

[Pete_Hsu]

Pete, can you run wireless base on say channel 6 and have all the ULS-15's run from one, or do they have to be on independent channels?

Good question Ron, theoretically one should be able to do that. As long as the signal strength seems good (ie. you don't see the wireless led light flashing and indicating poor signal strength), then it should be fine...

[Pete_Hsu]

Oh yeah, one more thing guys, to clear up the whole "Hsu sub flat to 10Hz" claim, note that at T.H.E. SHOW in Vegas earlier this year, we actually measured the [prototype] sub to be flat to ~10Hz in our demo room. Of course we would never claim it is flat to 10Hz when measured outside! :D Since this sub has a much more shallow rolloff below 16Hz than our large ported subs, it's certainly a good possibility that many people will get strong response down to ~ 10Hz in-room with the ULS-15.

[ZuN]

Ok guys I unboxed 1 of the subs and the wife gives them 2 thumbs up !!! good job team HSU, looks like she won't have to live in the Garage!!:p

[Pete_Hsu]

Laughing out loud, that's a great way to look at it Rafael. :) But then again, I think there are a lot of married people out there who might actually prefer that their spouse lives in the garage some of the time :D

[Pete_Hsu]

One more thing I would like to mention is that the initial production run has small brass feet that screw into the bottom of the unit. They are nice and stylish, but just make sure to use something soft underneath the feet when using them on a non-carpeted flooring surface. If you don't feel the need to use them, then at least cover the screw holes with electrical tape or something to keep the air from leaking there. Future production runs will only have small rubber feet that screw into the bottom of the unit so that it is easier to use them on any surface without needing felt/rubber pads or carpet throw rugs.

[a3plew]

:D Wow I was not expecting such a thing of beauty. You guys did such an amazing job with the appearance. :eek: I wish I was rich enough to buy 4 15's.They look very beautiful in piano black.:D I cant wait to see the measurements for this new toy. Great job Hsu!

[mike c]

Note that in the 16Hz ULF Trim mode, the subwoofer starts rolling off gently below 16Hz when measured outside and away from reflective boundaries. To take advantage of room gain in small or medium sized rooms, one can adjust the knob to a higher frequency as high as 50Hz. So in many rooms people should get good response down to 10Hz with room gain factored in. In some instances, by utilizing the ULF Trim control to roll off deeper bass, people can get higher output capability over the more common ranges too.

hi pete,

can you explain this to me again? by adjusting the ULF trim knob to 50hz, the low end extension is improved?

how does this work exactly?

[lanion]

Low extension would not be improved, but if your room gain was very high below 50hz then rolling the bass off earlier would put less strain on the subwoofer and it could play louder. It is a nice EQ feature on the sub to adjust for room gain.

[cacihome]

This thing is very beatiful, and has one hell of a driver Pete.
My sincere congratulations!!!!

[mike c]

Low extension would not be improved, but if your room gain was very high below 50hz then rolling the bass off earlier would put less strain on the subwoofer and it could play louder. It is a nice EQ feature on the sub to adjust for room gain.

i see. now i understand. thank you.

basically, bassheads need to keep the knob at 16hz :D and just buy some more.

question: how many transmitters are included in the duals and quads? one for all? or one for each sub?

[cacihome]

Look out this video folks...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uqLSV4jGaXY

WOW!!!

So Pete...
Would this driver be adequate for a ported box version?
Professional reviews coming up?

[mwr0707]

My listening room is hardwood over particle board.
I'm thinking about using the Auralex SubDude 15"x15" isolation riser for this sub.
The ULS-15 would overhang the riser.

Would there be any problems with this configuration?
I assume it makes no sense to install the ULS-15's feet when using a riser?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

question: how many transmitters are included in the duals and quads? one for all? or one for each sub?

There's one included in each ULS-15 box. I will test to see if all subs can be run on the same assigned wireless channel driven with just a single base station.

[cschang]

I'm really interested in a wireless implementation. So fire 'em up!!

[Mia&Lana's dad]

okay, no problem - would you like that flat to 10hz in room?

coming right up!

[cschang]

LOL! I just want to know if you notice anything different between wired and wireless. Since you are running MBM's, if there is a difference, it might be harder to detect.

[Ddavidson]

I'm really interested in a wireless implementation. So fire 'em up!!
I could have some real fun doing driveby's transmitting "Celine Dion" - My Heart Will Go On. http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Now that would ruin anyone's holiday weekend. Its enough to make you like wires. .... Hahha http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ddavidson

[Mia&Lana's dad]

LOL! I just want to know if you notice anything different between wired and wireless. Since you are running MBM's, if there is a difference, it might be harder to detect.

Pretty easy to switch them off, isolate and calibrate just the ULS-15's. Just more work... I mean.... fun, fun, fun!

[Larry M]

Can someone explain the wireless setup...Are you telling me you don't need a subwoofer cable?:eek:

Oh man oh man how cool this is!
Anyone in Northern NJ want to split a dual setup :)

[a3plew]

I wish someone would invent wireless power:D.

[bsoko]

Pretty easy to switch them off, isolate and calibrate just the ULS-15's. Just more work... I mean.... fun, fun, fun!

To Mia & Lana's dad,

Ron - Let me know how the duals compare to the Conquest? I'm holding off on the Conquest until you have done your comparison.

Bill

[sbeveraggi]

According to the published specs, the ULS-15 can go down to 15hz +/- 1db...
Will it stay flat up to 100 or 120 hz?

[cschang]

In the manual that is online it says +-1db 15-200hz
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ULS15.pdf

[TheEAR]

Great news ! Finally a sealed sub from HSU ,a sub I will be able to stack and fit in the wall of subs.:)

I hope to get my quote on shipping soon,for two units and order a pair. :D


For people questioning the output I can say only wait until you try these beasts. The time of the high quality and great performing sealed is upon us.

[sbeveraggi]

In the manual that is online it says +-1db 15-200hz
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ULS15.pdf

Thanks cschang!:)

Does anybody have hi res pictures of the Hsu Satin Black finish?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Mia & Lana's dad......hook that baby up and feed us some impressions.

To Mia & Lana's dad,

Ron - Let me know how the duals compare to the Conquest? I'm holding off on the Conquest until you have done your comparison.

Bill

I just got back from Sam Ash for two more Gramma's, as well as picked up a bunch more y-splitters from ratshack to prep for the OctoDrive.

Here's what I plan on doing today. For the time being, I don't feel like disturbing my front stage until my L/C/R Sound Anchors arrive sometime next week. So, I'll introduce ULS-15 DualDrive in the rear corners of my room to augment the Conquest and MBM-12's (x4) which are up front.

I will recalibrate with all subs in place to establish a new combined FR baseline. This first test will have the ULS-15's wired. Then I will re-run it wireless for a back to back.

Next test, I will shutdown the front stage (Conquest/MBM's) and isolate just the ULS-15's for two runs: wired and wireless.

That should be plenty to do before fireworks start here on the west coast.

Here's what my current in room FR looks like without the new ULS-15's:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad_MultEQ-Pro-06272008.gif


Wish me luck!

[bsoko]

Ron - waiting like a prom queen!

Bill

[sbeveraggi]

I just got back from Sam Ash for two more Gramma's, as well as picked up a bunch more y-splitters from ratshack to prep for the OctoDrive.

Here's what I plan on doing today. For the time being, I don't feel like disturbing my front stage until my L/C/R Sound Anchors arrive sometime next week. So, I'll introduce ULS-15 DualDrive in the rear corners of my room to augment the Conquest and MBM-12's (x4) which are up front.

I will recalibrate with all subs in place to establish a new combined FR baseline. This first test will have the ULS-15's wired. Then I will re-run it wireless for a back to back.

Next test, I will shutdown the front stage (Conquest/MBM's) and isolate just the ULS-15's for two runs: wired and wireless.

That should be plenty to do before fireworks start here on the west coast.

Here's what my current in room FR looks like without the new ULS-15's:

Wish me luck!

Please post some pictures also!:D

[Mia&Lana's dad]

I just finished running cables to the rear so calibration is about to commence. However, I wanted to verify whether or not a single transmitter/base could drive more than one ULS-15.

The answer is.....




































































YES!



okay, be back in a bit

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad_MultEQ-Pro-07042008-plus-ULS-.gif

Okay guys, here's what I was able to manage to get done in between all the distractions going on at our house this Independence day.

Two ULS-15's were added to the mix and placed in the rear corners level. Prior to running Audyssey, I level matched all the subs at the primary listening position individually at 75db. Together, they measured 92db. I also ran the rear ULS-15's 180 degree phase while the front subs were at zero. The ULF trim was set to 16hz and internal crossover bypassed.

[bsoko]

How did the bass sound as compared to the Conquest?

Bill

[Mia&Lana's dad]

I'm just about to pop in Open Range.

My initial comments won't isolate the ULS-15's vs. Conquest since I haven't calibrated the system for just the new subs alone, they are playing together with the front stage at the moment (Conquest & MBM-12's x4).

I'll be right back after the gunfight scene.

[bsoko]

Ok, happy gunshots!

Bill

[cschang]

Looking at the before EQ of the subwoofer with and without the ULS-15's.....with the ULS-15's, there is big rise in the deepest bass.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

First, let me say this is just the first pass at integrating the new ULS-15's. I've had similar sub FR graphs with the front stage and tweaked a good deal to get it where it was before. I think I can get a similarly flat curve with the new subs given their added controls. That said, the visceral impact from the MBM's are strong as ever. When they were added, my system improved dramatically where I wanted it. Prior to moving them up front, I tried nearfield placement with my first pair of MBM-12's. It was fun and had all the tactile output one could want. However, I preferred them with the mains so I added two more to round out the massive front wall of subwoofage anchored deeply by the Conquest.

I was quite content with how bass sounds and feels in my room, except I've been curious to hear what sealed subs had to offer. I had plans to add 4 or 8 Valors prior to getting the MBM's but there was an amp shortage. I almost ordered 3 more Conquests out of despair for more of the sound quality I already grown accustomed to. Instead, I tried something new and different with the MBM's. They are absolutely wonderful, complementing both the Sierra's and the Conquest, performing authoritatively where they were designed to. I had it all, or so I thought.

Depth/extension/output - check.

Rib bruising Slam factor - check.

What else could there be? Well, I had no idea that the new ULS-15's were going to be sealed. I really didn't know what to expect, but when Pete called and said I would be the first to get them - I couldn't pass up the opportunity and I have no regrets...

So what does ULS-15 DualDrive add to my system? It is really difficult to explain but I'll try. I heard something new in the low frequencies. There was now a texture enveloping the shotgun blasts, detail I never thought possible for a simple sound effect. I have a lot more demo scenes to go through still but I quickly watched Pixar's Cars and experienced the opening NASCAR rush like never before. Fast _AND_ deep. That was a complete surprise. I will watch Cloverfield Blu-Ray next and see how that goes before starting the next round of tweaking.

Sorry I didn't get to the wireless testing yet.

[cschang]

No worries about the wireless. I forgive you. :)

With this new found texture/detail, I wonder what it will be like with the Conquest turned off. Sound quality....that's what it is about! It is that kind of stuff that you mentioned that I heard with Hsu subs.....but the ULS-15 should be the best of the Hsus in this regard.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Yes, that will be a configuration I will recalibrate for certain! I'm going to do another run right now to see if switching the ULS-15's to zero phase helps at all. Gonna tweak the MBM's too. Then if I'm not too tired, I'll isolate the DualDrives on their own.

[cschang]

Indoor fireworks of your own!

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad_MultEQ-Pro-07052008-plus-U-3.gif


Here's the tweaked phase and levels recalibration result

[Ilkka]

Hi,

What's the scale (both X and Y) of those graphs? It looks like your subwoofer goes as high as 400-500 Hz? :confused:

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad_MultEQ-Pro-07052008-ULS-15-du.gif

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Hi,

What's the scale (both X and Y) of those graphs? It looks like your subwoofer goes as high as 400-500 Hz? :confused:

Audyssey told me this:

The graphs use 5 dB/division on the vertical axis. The horizontal axis starts at 20 Hz and ends at 20 kHz. The bold lines are 100 Hz, 1000 Hz, and 10000 Hz.

[cschang]

Very interesting...hope you got some sleep.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

A little. Got too late to push them even slightly so I've just been cruising listening to my new Cullen ZP80 and ripping my cd's to flac.

So far though, the new sub does more than hold their own.

[cschang]

You have a Cullen ZP80? I have a standard ZP80, digitally connected to my pre/pro....do you think I would hear a difference?

You have too many toys that I want! Bad influence.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

I haven't heard the stock unit, but you can bring yours over if you like so we can A/B them!

I'll tell you this though, it is very VERY AIRY, huge soundstage - and on top of that SUPER BLACK QUIET in the transitions. I haven't A/B'd with my Pioneer DV48AV (bitstream over HDMI) but from memory - there's no need! To me it already sounds better, hearing things on the same tracks that weren't discernable with the spinning transport. Too bad it doesn't do multichannel SACD/DVD-A.

[cschang]

We need to start making plans for some listening at your place. There are a few of us in the south bay that want to check out your setup! :)

I really love my Sonos. Whether it is Sonos or Squeezebox...or whatever, I do think media servers/clients are the best way to listen. It is just so much more convenient. The only time I touch my CDs now are when I make a copy or take them to listen to other systems.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Sonos/Squeezebox/Server media truly is iPod convenience/UI without the MP3 compression. It's one of my favorite enhancements to the system that just really allows one to enjoy your music.

[St anger]

Pretty.

One question though, and if it's already been addressed then apologies.

Is this Sub equipped with a phase Switch rather then a continuously variable phase control knob?

[cschang]

Pretty.

One question though, and if it's already been addressed then apologies.

Is this Sub equipped with a phase Switch rather then a continuously variable phase control knob?

It looks like it is just a switch. I think Hsu's position in the past is that the distance settings on most receivers does the same thing as variable phase.


Continuously variable
Continuously variable phase control circuits are common in subwoofer amplifiers, and may be found in crossovers and as do-it-yourself electronics projects.[15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22] Phase controls allow the listener to change the arrival time of the subwoofer sound waves relative to the same frequencies from the main speakers (ie, at and around the crossover point to the subwoofer). A similar effect can be achieved with the delay control on many home theater receivers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer#Continuously_variable

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Just finished a wonderful demo and quite possibly the best experience I've had to date with the pods emerge scene.

I believe because of the nearfield rear corner placement of the ULS-15 DualDrive in my room, they match the combined performance of my Conquest/MBM-12 front stage. There is an immediacy of visceral impact that does not linger and hang. The undulations and pulses start, stop and do not blend together. I am slowly becoming able to describe this newly discovered definition and detail. I want to be able to conclude this "texture" is a trait inherent to a properly implemented sealed sub. I will sit on the fence for now and continue through the other scenes - Pulse is up next. It will be quite some time before I'll be able to take a firm stance on the issue as I've said previously. But for now, this new sound is awesome.

[Larry M]

Just finished a wonderful demo and quite possibly the best experience I've had to date with the pods emerge scene.

I believe because of the nearfield rear corner placement of the ULS-15 DualDrive in my room, they match the combined performance of my Conquest/MBM-12 front stage. There is an immediacy of visceral impact that does not linger and hang. The undulations and pulses start, stop and do not blend together. I am slowly becoming able to describe this newly discovered definition and detail. I want to be able to conclude this "texture" is a trait inherent to a properly implemented sealed sub. I will sit on the fence for now and continue through the other scenes - Pulse is up next. It will be quite some time before I'll be able to take a firm stance on the issue as I've said previously. But for now, this new sound is awesome.
How does the sub perform by itself? Does it still punch you the stomach? What would you compare it to?

I am contemplating a Def Tech Supercube Reference (essentially half a Def Tech Trinity sub) or a AV123 MFW-15 but it is too large in size(WAF)

I also love the idea of wireless because I don't have to many places to put it at my current location.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Alright, I know for certain that the rear corners provide the most output. When I first got the Conquest it was placed in the right rear and the first demo I tried was the Pulse scene. It was violent and flexed all the doors and windows throughout my house. My wife said I couldn't play that scene anymore unless I wanted to spend for Anderson windows instead of HT gear. Sufficeth to say, I played the scene again many times over but took precautions not to destroy the house.

Today, I cracked open a few windows to vent some pressure before letting the ULS-15's breathe. Even so, the demo was fondly familiar and reproduced the low frequency content spectacularly. I popped off the magnetic grilles and watched all that excursion while my head and body absorbed every ounce of subsonic goodness. And, for the first time with the scene, heard something new. Yeah, yeah you know what I'm going to say...

TEXTURE!

[Mia&Lana's dad]

How does the sub perform by itself? Does it still punch you the stomach? What would you compare it to?

I am contemplating a Def Tech Supercube Reference (essentially half a Def Tech Trinity sub) or a AV123 MFW-15 but it is too large in size(WAF)

I also love the idea of wireless because I don't have to many places to put it at my current location.

The new subs are currently running in tandem all on their own without the Conquest/MBM front stage and they are doing a mighty fine job handling everything I've thrown at them so far. Punch is still there and I would say that it hits just as hard while sounding better to my ear. To be fair, I will have to move them up front before I can say which I prefer the most. I suspect it will take 8 of them at that distance away from my main listening position to match the Conquest/MBM front stage on equal footing. Who knows, I might be wrong and only need four or heck a dozen.. I'll find out though and that's why this hobby is so much fun!

[cschang]

I wonder how many will be needed when running with the MBM's. I am betting two would be fine.

[bsoko]

I wonder how many will be needed when running with the MBM's. I am betting two would be fine.

I'd say 4!

Bill

[majorloser]

I'd say 4!

Bill


That's four ULS-15's and four MBM-12's :rolleyes:


There's a new beast on the block. Now let's see what the owners of the "other lesser" three letter company products have to say about these subs :D

(let the forum sub wars begin)

[Pete_Hsu]

Now now, I wouldn't say that any other companies are lesser (or greater), just different!

Thanks for the kind feedback so far, Ron! I'm looking forward to your first class photos :)

[Pete_Hsu]

Regarding frequency response of the unit, we measured +/- 1db from 15-200Hz when measured outside and away from reflective boundaries (ULF Trim set at 16Hz).

[JonnyOzero3]

That's kickass flat. Add in room response...nice.

Well done.

[Dr_Hsu]

There's one included in each ULS-15 box. I will test to see if all subs can be run on the same assigned wireless channel driven with just a single base station.

As long as the subs are set to the same channel, you just need to use one transmitter for as many subs as you want...

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Just had three guys over for an impromptu watch/listen. Perhaps they will chime in with their brief experience at my place.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

As long as the subs are set to the same channel, you just need to use one transmitter for as many subs as you want...

Thanks Dr. Hsu for the confirmation!

The wireless functionality works as advertised. It would be nice to see a frequency table for each of the channels. So far I've tried only two:

Channel 3 - ULS-15 x 2

Interferes/disables Sonos Controller when set to its Channel 1

Channel 4 - ULS-15 x 2

Interferes/disables my Wi-Fi network when set to its Channel 11

There are still two channels left to explore on the ULS-15 transmitter and the others for the Sonos and Wi-Fi. I'm sure there will be a combination where all the wireless devices will be happy - just need to go through and find it.

[Larry7995]

is there a picture of the ULS-15 in espresso? I assume it's pretty dark, I looked at the pictures on the website and saw black ones and rosenut and maple but I didn't see one that was espresso. Maybe the espresso just looks black in the picture?
Looks like you may have a major hit on your hands with this sub! I can't wait to see how it compares with some of the others out there, I could see getting two in the fall perhaps. What do you all recommend for EQ equipment? DSP-30?

[Dr_Hsu]

The Espresso one is the one to the left of the Maple. Its a very dark brown, looks almost black under dim lighting, but you can see that its a dark brown under strong light. The finishes Pete posted are:

Satin Black Rosenut with grille

Woofer

Amplifier

Espresso Maple

Piano Black Rosenut back view

[cschang]

I just posted this at AVS:

I was also at Mia & Lana's dad's.....

First...his wife has got to be pretty forgiving.

We didn't have anything to compare it to in his room....but I will say what we did hear was f'in impressive! Incredibly tactile....just crazy. I have heard AnthemAVM's dual PB13 setup in his larger room and Dynaudio towers...and if this didn't surpass it, it was at least right up there with it.

For music, I also thought it sounded great. Crossed at 80hz with the Sierras, I thought they worked great together. The 16hz pedal stop from the Hsu demo disc was as good as I remembered it from the demo at Hsu's offices.

During the movie scenes, I got out of my seat to see how things felt farther from the subs.....still very impressive.

mziegler sat in the SPOT during most of the movie scenes, and I think he was still shaking when we left.

Dr. Hsu....I think you have a winner!

[cschang]

Here's a bad picture I took with my phone:

http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/326990810_AYHqo-M.jpg

[ZuN]

Hey Guys,
finally had a chance to set up my dual ULS-15's, Let me tell you, on listening to the 1st Track on the Demo HSU gives you, the look on my wifes face when the friggin house started to shake was priceless!!!, don't get me wrong it caught me off gaurd too, but once I realized what was happening that look of shock on my face turned into a smile from ear to ear! I then played some music I'm very familiar with and noticed that the bass wasn't booming like im used to hearing, instead i can actually hear the "SOUND" of the bass, the texture that was hiding behind the "boom" from my previous sub was now upfront, I was just amazed at all the detail you can hear and of course the sonic impact the ULS-15's were providing.

Next up came Open Range, again WOW the gun scene was just amazing I have to agree with Mia&Lana's dad the guns now take on a new sound and texture and the impact is just awesome. That's about all i was able to test hopefully ill have time tonight to turn on and calibrate my 2 MBM-12's and see how that sounds.

[Ddavidson]

Can you guys stop with the comments. Your getting me into wondering if I can somehow hide these from the wife and that spells domestic trouble (maybe even physical harm) http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ddavidson

[ZuN]

Can you guys stop with the comments. Your getting me into wondering if I can somehow hide these from the wife and that spells domestic trouble (maybe even physical harm) http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ddavidson
Now that you mention it, I think I would have been able to swap out my previous sub with the ULS-15 and my wife wouldn't have noticed, Untill I turned the system on that is :D

[Mia&Lana's dad]

just loaded up another pair and leaving HSU labs...

4 down four more to go

Then OctoDrive

engage!!!!

[lanion]

did you get quad drive pricing? I may want 2 more down the line. And that is totally nuts if you get 4 more:eek:

[cschang]

I was at his house and experienced the two ULS's.....I don't think he even needs the quad!! None the less....I will go hear the setup. :D

[bsoko]

did you get quad drive pricing? I may want 2 more down the line. And that is totally nuts if you get 4 more:eek:

I think that he is trying to equal the output of his Conquest?

Bill

[Mia&Lana's dad]

I committed to four before I knew what they were. I just didn't have enough on me when Pete called me last week due to the 3 SX-1000 mono amps, Cullen ZP80, Sonos Controller and bridge.

So yes, QuadDrive pricing was honored.

[goatmother]

I think that he is trying to equal the output of his Conquest?

Bill

Or blow the roof off his house:eek:

[cschang]

I think that he is trying to equal the output of his Conquest?

Bill
Now that he knows what they can do....I think he is trying to blow his roof off. :)

[craigsub]

Congratulations to Hsu Research - the ULS-15 looks like a possible terrific product in every sense. The Quad pack looks like a killer set up ... :)

[SeattleDucks]

Hey Guys,
finally had a chance to set up my dual ULS-15's, Let me tell you, on listening to the 1st Track on the Demo HSU gives you, the look on my wifes face when the friggin house started to shake was priceless!!!, don't get me wrong it caught me off gaurd too, but once I realized what was happening that look of shock on my face turned into a smile from ear to ear! I then played some music I'm very familiar with and noticed that the bass wasn't booming like im used to hearing, instead i can actually hear the "SOUND" of the bass, the texture that was hiding behind the "boom" from my previous sub was now upfront, I was just amazed at all the detail you can hear and of course the sonic impact the ULS-15's were providing.

Next up came Open Range, again WOW the gun scene was just amazing I have to agree with Mia&Lana's dad the guns now take on a new sound and texture and the impact is just awesome. That's about all i was able to test hopefully ill have time tonight to turn on and calibrate my 2 MBM-12's and see how that sounds.

ZuN, you were not running the MBM-12's during this first demo, correct? Did you seem to be lacking the additional midbass punch you are probably used to getting from the MBM-12's?

And what was your previous sub?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad_07072008-ULS-15-QuadDrive-Fro.gif
Alright fellas, moved all the ULS-15's up front. The Conquest/MBM's are not running for the moment.

Need to eat, but will report back soon thereafter.

[cschang]

Dude!! Crazy!

Hope you tried just two of them up front first.

[bsoko]

The wife is still feeding you? Still want to hear how the new sub compares in tone/output with the Conquest.

Bill

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Dude!! Crazy!

Hope you tried just two of them up front first.

nah, but that's easy to do. Come to think of it now I can recalibrate for one, two and three as well as isolating/optimizing one ULS-15 at each of the four spots without moving them around! How cool is that! Looks like we're going to be playing musical chairs sub-american style!!

Haha that show was classic.

[cschang]

When I have some free time, I would not mind coming over to help.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Yeah.. I'll break out the girls' barbie walkie talkies:

me: Breaker, breaker one two three... curtis good ole buddy are you there...


curtis: roger

me: no, name's Ron!

curtis: wilco

me: flip ULS-15 #2, #3 & #4 off!

curtis: good to go!

hahahahaha

[tdekany]

Well done Dr Hsu.

It is just what the doctor ordered.

A great new flagship.

Superb as usual.

Ddavidson

X2

I asked him years ago why he didn't produce 15" woofers but who cares?

It is here now.

We are moving to the west coast by the end of the year (praying) but once there I will get a couple of them for sure.:D :D

[cschang]

X2

I asked him years ago why he didn't produce 15" woofers but who cares?

It is here now.

We are moving to the west coast by the end of the year (praying) but once there I will get a couple of them for sure.:D :D
Maybe he was waiting until one could be produced to his liking.

Where on the west coast?

[cschang]

Yeah.. I'll break out the girls' barbie walkie talkies:

me: Breaker, breaker one two three... curtis good ole buddy are you there...


curtis: roger

me: no, name's Ron!

curtis: wilco

me: flip ULS-15 #2, #3 & #4 off!

curtis: good to go!

hahahahaha

Too funny! I really just want more spinach dip. :)

[tdekany]

Maybe he was waiting until one could be produced to his liking.

Where on the west coast?


Portland area or Western Washington. Flying out on the 22nd for 9 days.

[Ddavidson]

Now that you mention it, I think I would have been able to swap out my previous sub with the ULS-15 and my wife wouldn't have noticed, Untill I turned the system on that is :D
Mine wouldn't notice one in satin but I would find it impossible to hide the missing $1300. http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
She is like a hawk on our finances (although I did just get new stereo only pr of speakers)

Ddavidson

[bsoko]

Mine wouldn't notice one in satin but I would find it impossible to hide the missing $1300. http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
She is like a hawk on our finances (although I did just get new stereo only pr of speakers)

Ddavidson

Problem is that just one won't do it. 2 is better!

Bill

[cschang]

Problem is that just one won't do it. 2 is better!

One won't do what?

[ZuN]

I guess I'm lucky since the wife and I have separate bank accounts :D

Mine wouldn't notice one in satin but I would find it impossible to hide the missing $1300. http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
She is like a hawk on our finances (although I did just get new stereo only pr of speakers)

Ddavidson

[Ddavidson]

I guess I'm lucky since the wife and I have separate bank accounts :D
Guess I should have paid more att and read the fine print when she asked me to sign the marriage documentation.
"What is mine is mine and what is yours in now mine" http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif


Ddavidson

[majorloser]

Can you guys stop with the comments. Your getting me into wondering if I can somehow hide these from the wife and that spells domestic trouble (maybe even physical harm) http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ddavidson


I'm still wandering about how to write up the classified ad to sell my "Used HO's". :rolleyes:

Would that go under the Adult Entertainment section or the Personal Ads?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/ULS-15_002.jpg

[Ddavidson]

I'm still wandering about how to write up the classified ad to sell my "Used HO's". :rolleyes:

Would that go under the Adult Entertainment section or the Personal Ads?
I guess it would all depend if they where abused HO's or cared for HO's. http://forum.hsuresearch.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ddavidson

[aht3]

I'm still wandering about how to write up the classified ad to sell my "Used HO's". :rolleyes:

Would that go under the Adult Entertainment section or the Personal Ads?

You should do ok as long as they still work. From what I hear, you know how to wear a HO out so just make sure you sell them at a good price. What would be nice is if you could ship them to HSU to be sold as "b" stock and sold for what they though was fair and the proceeds going directly to your new sub. I know that's a la la land idea but it's just something to talk about.

[cacihome]

That setup is the best!QUadrives with quad mbms!WOW!
Congrats!

[cacihome]

So how would you describe the bass of a Conquest vs the bass of an ULS-15?
Which is more visceral?
WHich is more room filing?
Which causes more furniture vibrations on your sofa?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Still want to hear how the new sub compares in tone/output with the Conquest.

Bill

Yes, this is why I moved the ULS-15 QuadDrive up front - just for you Bill!

I'm working on something to quickly A/B them. If I have to I'll just get a Denon 3808 because they allow Audyssey pro calibrations to be saved to a laptop. I'll calibrate each possible combination of subs and then just watch scenes back to back taking notes. That would be the ideal way methinks.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

So how would you describe the bass of a Conquest vs the bass of an ULS-15?
Which is more visceral?
WHich is more room filing?
Which causes more furniture vibrations on your sofa?

See my above post. But so far, the nearfield ULS-15 DualDrive in the rear corners have met and exceeded those three areas with ease. However, I can discern subtle localization since they are behind me. Might be psychological, but I believe my ears too.

[cacihome]

See my above post. But so far, the nearfield ULS-15 DualDrive in the rear corners have met and exceeded those three areas with ease. However, I can discern subtle localization since they are behind me. Might be psychological, but I believe my ears too.

Ok.thanks.

Ok... So far,right now, in your room, two ULS-15 are being better than a Conquest?

How did you connect the four MBM-12's? Y splitters?
If yes, did using Y splitters lowered the cable's signal strenght that went to the MBM's and you had to compensate for it (via sub gain on the back or amp...)

[Mia&Lana's dad]

no can't say which way just yet, but in addition to the QuadDrive I will calibrate for single, duals and triple.

Single - calibrations for each placement: #1, #2, #3, #4

Dual - Outer pair, Inner pair, #1 & #3, #2 & #4

Triple - Outer pair with #2, Outer pair with #3


Then start all over again when I complete the OctoDrive muahahahaha.

I think then I'll have enough data and listening time to form a personal opinion.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Ok.thanks.


How did you connect the four MBM-12's? Y splitters?
If yes, did using Y splitters lowered the cable's signal strenght that went to the MBM's and you had to compensate for it (via sub gain on the back or amp...)

Currently, the MBM's aren't playing.

But I use this:

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2266205w345.jpg

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103638&cp=

I go from the pre-pro to the first sub and just keep linking the subsequent units the same way. I use the pre-pro sub tone and level match independently starting with the first unit using analog Radio Shack SPL meter to 75db by adjusting the sub's gain on its own amp. When they all play together it reads 88db at the primary listening position. I only bring it down when I see that Audyssey runs out of level trim and the final calibration is too hot.

[cacihome]

Nice. Thanks for your time Mia &Lana'sDad.
You never needed a subsonic filter for the Conquest? Or you never pushed it hard on low freq content?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

The limitation for both ULS-15 and the Conquest, for me, is that Audyssey MultEQ XT only corrects to 20hz. The upcoming SubEQ looks like it will continue down to 10hz.

I could run REW now, but I don't have any other means to EQ unless I go out and get something like an SMS-1, DEQ2496/DCX2496/BFD, etc...

I love the way Audyssey corrects response in my room for both frequency and time domains. It sounds wonderful to me and just so happens to produce flat graphs to boot.

[cacihome]

Yep. The graphs looks great man!

[ZuN]

Sorry I missed your post, i had a Klipsh SUB-12 with a single MBM-12, the first demo was done just with the 2 ULS-15's and I wouldn't say I was completely missing the punch, it was less, but the sound was more pronounced, then adding the 2nd MBM-12 and my previous one into the mix was just the icing on the cake, now the punches hits harder and lows sound lower, I'm very happy with the setup. :D

ZuN, you were not running the MBM-12's during this first demo, correct? Did you seem to be lacking the additional midbass punch you are probably used to getting from the MBM-12's?

And what was your previous sub?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Front Stage Placement as pictured earlier

I can say this is the best sound quality I've had in my room to date for both music and especially movies. As calibrated, however, in order to match the output of the Conquest/MBM-12 (x4) front stage - the ULS-15 QuadDrive required +7db gain on the pre-pro when running at the same location thirteen feet away from primary listening position. This sub level proved to be consistent for my usual demo scenes and what I felt was needed in terms of output adjustment. Once that was compensated for (subjectively, by ear) - going through Open Range, Mr. Brooks, War of the Worlds, Master & Commander, Transformers & Blackhawk Down - the ULS-15 QuadDrive definitely performed without breaking a sweat. I'm talking about the cleanest I've ever experienced in my room at that output. I had the SPL meter on this time while watching all the scenes and it consistently read between 110-116db depending on the content.

Adding another +5db was no problem as I went through the scenes that benefitted from it: Transformers and BlackHawk Down. At this setting, the Helicopter blades were reproduced better than ever. What sticks out the most in memory is the background chord sound effect in Transformers as the transition from the Hoover Dam radio room to the F22 Jets being scrambled. This was supremely PURE and POWERFUL. Just incredible sound quality and output - no distortion, extremely clear and tactile. I can say the sealed sound is what I prefer. And from my quick testing, I think it really will take 8 of them to get the headroom I desire. When all was said and done the pre-pro was at +0db. If you look at my latest graphs, Audyssey sub trim was -12db. to begin with.

To recap, in my room, the ULS-15 QuadDrive needed +7db to match the Conquest/MBM (for all scenes) and an additional +5db to sound the best for two scenes in particular (Transformers & Blackhawk Down). I feel this gave me a glimpse as to what the OctoDrive may deliver. The other scenes sounded better and reached the appropriate comparison output with just the +7db tweak.

I will still continue testing once I get the ability to A/B quickly as audio memory is not very reliable.

[cschang]

WOW!!!! After the two we heard at the rear, this setup sounds better? That is scary!!!

Of course, you could adjust the gain the subs to negate that needed 7dB on the pre/pro. :D

[Mia&Lana's dad]

The problem with raising the gain on the sub amps is that Audyssey is already running out of trim level. After calibration, it is already -12db. It doesn't cut any more than that. Definitely worth a try though to see how Audyssey will react.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

I just posted this too on AVS, also pertinent:

Let me add, the DualDrive rear corner placement had sufficient output, but was slightly localized and did not blend as seamlessly as they do in a front stage placement. Goes for all my subs for that matter. The tactile experience is the best with nearfield sub placement. Perhaps I will put two back in the corners and turn them on just for movies depending how well I can balance front stage and rear-fill.

[cschang]

The problem with raising the gain on the sub amps is that Audyssey is already running out of trim level. After calibration, it is already -12db. It doesn't cut any more than that. Definitely worth a try though to see how Audyssey will react.

Ahh...I see. So even though Audyssey calibrates the subs the same, you felt you needed to turn them up to get the same level of output as the Conquest/MBM combo?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

yes, that's exactly it just based on memory from last week. So you can understand my apprehension not being able to back that up with measurements followed up with A/B. I don't want to just rely on my current mood and hearing. I do trust my ears though, but I want to be thorough and conclusive as best I can.

oh, and that was just for the demo movie scenes. Music is perfect. The subs haven't been that flat from 20-200 ever. No pre-pro sub adjustment needed for music.

[JonnyOzero3]

Maybe your ears got tired? :D

[cacihome]

OH My god....And I thought I was a basshead!!!!...
Bah!

[cschang]

yes, that's exactly it just based on memory from last week. So you can understand my apprehension not being able to back that up with measurements followed up with A/B. I don't want to just rely on my current mood and hearing. I do trust my ears though, but I want to be thorough and conclusive as best I can.

oh, and that was just for the demo movie scenes. Music is perfect. The subs haven't been that flat from 20-200 ever. No pre-pro sub adjustment needed for music.

Very interesting.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Maybe your ears got tired? :D

Yeah, maybe! that's when I let my body tell me what's going on. haha.

The SQ though is just through the roof. I was just spoiled by Conquest/MBM output, so I've been ruined. So being very honest with myself, I knew beforehand that multiples were going to be the way to go. Heck, I already told you guys I considered getting quad Conquests, 4 or 8 Valors.

Another personal shortcoming of mine is that I'm very impatient. I hate waiting for items to ship and usually spring for Next Day Air, but that's way too painful for heavy oversized items. Being local to HSU, having product in stock ready to go is really convenient. Often times, I would talk myself out of a major purchase because of shipping or leadtime. I'm really bad at impulse buying. The personal connection and relationship building is also a very important factor in my decision making process.

[J.Royce Baron]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/ULS-15_002.jpg
This is really amusing and it must be a HUGE giggle on movies with all the simulated sounds, however for accurate musical reproduction arriving at the listener in its original state I’m afraid it would fail. Having said that, I suppose this is meant to be an impressive fun setup and it certainly is that…enjoy.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Are you from the UK?

[J.Royce Baron]

Are you from the UK?

Is it my accent? ;)

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Thanks for confirming.

[JonnyOzero3]

This is really amusing and it must be a HUGE giggle on movies with all the simulated sounds, however for accurate musical reproduction arriving at the listener in its original state I’m afraid it would fail. Having said that, I suppose this is meant to be an impressive fun setup and it certainly is that…enjoy.

Could you elaborate a little bit please? I'm curious why you think so.

[Pete_Hsu]

Ron, one thing you could try is the (4) MBM-12 up front, and (4) ULS-15 nearfield in the rear. The ULS subs should not be localizeable in this setup because they will only be handling 50Hz and below.

[Pete_Hsu]

And thanks again to everyone who has complimented us on the new product!

[lanion]

Fedex will be dropping mine off on Friday, so us non-CA locals will be chiming in over the next week or so.

[bsoko]

Ron, it takes 4 of the ULS subs to = the Conquest?

Bill

[Mia&Lana's dad]

No. So far, the ULS-15 QuadDrive matches the Conquest/MBM-12(x4) front stage. But that takes an additional +7db pre-pro tweak post Audyssey Calibration (subjectively by ear).

An additional +5db on top of the +7db tweak takes the QuadDrive beyond the Conquest/MBM-12 front stage.

[lanion]

No. So far, the ULS-15 QuadDrive matches the Conquest/MBM-12(x4) front stage. But that takes an additional +7db pre-pro tweak post Audyssey Calibration (subjectively by ear).

An additional +5db on top of the +7db tweak takes the QuadDrive beyond the Conquest/MBM-12 front stage.

Keep in mind these numbers are potentially arbitrary based in the differences in the gain knobs on the different subs. the important thing will be maximum output with acceptable harmonic distortion -- these numbers aren't available yet.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

those tweaks are purely subjective. My ears aren't precise like the calibrated mic and preamp that is used with audyssey pro kit. What it means is that I prefer the QuadDrive run hot (movies only) whereas I do not alter sub level for the Conquest/MBM front stage. Audyssey level matches and tunes both setups flat. This is the common baseline between them.

[cschang]

You could also like to run them hot for movies because the output is very clean. Just another theory. :)

[Mia&Lana's dad]

man Curtis, you are psychic! I am posting from my iPhone and was typing that out. Got a phone call and refreshed the thread but you said it already.

I think the transition to sealed sound is like getting accustomed to flat bass for the first time.

[cschang]

There is definitely a difference between the sealed presentation and ported....for me, at least between the subs I have heard recently. It has been most noticeable with the 16hz organ pedal stop.

After listening at your place, I played WoTW at my house at a very high level with my 3.3. It sounded very good, but the feeling i had was the shaking was not as "sharp" or "quick" or "clean".

I couldn't find my copy of Open Range to check that out.

A lot of different variables though.

[Pete_Hsu]

Good point Curtis. This sub is so clean sounding and has a very flat frequency response, so I can see why people would prefer running it hot in some instances.

[Pete_Hsu]

Guys, if you want to clean the surface of the ULS subwoofer, I recommend the following cleaner:

Murphy's Oil Soap - clean and shine Multi-use wood cleaner


Don't let the name fool you, it is actually designed to work very well on wood veneer and other surfaces such as painted black (ie. satin black) or piano black.

Simply apply some of this cleaner to a soft towel, wipe one side of the enclosure using a circular motion, and then quickly clean that side with another soft towel.

This stuff works very well for all the finishes...

[kinggimp]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/ULS-15_002.jpg


are those stacked sierra's for left right and center? lol 12 sierras wow. im in awe. i thought my upgrade to the vtf2-mk3 was kick ass. lol 4 uls-15s must be scary. What do you do for a living? all i can say is wow....enjoy it man

[Pete_Hsu]

Just to clarify about the wireless feature, we recommend using a y-splitter (available at radio shack for a couple bucks, one female to connect to the rca cable from the receiver, and two male to connect to the left and right inputs on the wireless transmitter), so that the gain is the same as the "wired" mode. If one doesn't feed the left and right inputs on the wireless transmitter in such a manner, then the gain will be 6db less than the "wired" mode for any volume knob setting on the subwoofer.

Most likely we will include the y-splitter in future production runs.

[Pete_Hsu]

Ron, are you using the proper (one female, two male) splitter with the wireless transmitter?

Also, have you had a chance to try quad MBM up front and quad ULS in the back?

[JonnyOzero3]

Just to clarify about the wireless feature, we recommend using a y-splitter (available at radio shack for a couple bucks, one female to connect to the rca cable from the receiver, and two male to connect to the left and right inputs on the wireless transmitter), so that the gain is the same as the "wired" mode. If one doesn't feed the left and right inputs on the wireless transmitter in such a manner, then the gain will be 6db less than the "wired" mode for any volume knob setting on the subwoofer.

Most likely we will include the y-splitter in future production runs.

Peter, have you guys considered transitioning the wireless feature to other amps in your running product line? I would think the MBM-12 would benefit greatly from it. (With the knowledge that some would still need a method for getting a wired signal to their current sub, y-splitter as well?)

[J.Royce Baron]

Could you elaborate a little bit please? I'm curious why you think so.

Radiating pattern from drivers producing the same sounds in the space will not enhance the experience, the interaction will cause havoc to phase integrity, introduce lobing/combing to the space. Can’t deceive Physics I’m afraid.

I’ll reiterate again this is a fun setup for it’s intended accomplishment, and I’m optimistic it delivers the contents in movies in a big way.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Ron, are you using the proper (one female, two male) splitter with the wireless transmitter?

Also, have you had a chance to try quad MBM up front and quad ULS in the back?

Even better, radio shack has a 6' y-cable all male that goes straight from my pre-pro sub out and reaches to the top of my tower rack!

I haven't played the system today. Was coming down to pick up the next quarter pounder but got stuck running around.

[Pete_Hsu]

Absolutely Jon, it would make sense to offer something similar with MBM at some point in the future...

[Pete_Hsu]

Even better, radio shack has a 6' y-cable all male that goes straight from my pre-pro sub out and reaches to the top of my tower rack!

I haven't played the system today. Was coming down to pick up the next quarter pounder but got stuck running around.

Wow, eight of these things is just going to be sick (in a good way) :D You've definitely set the bar high with respect to dynamics and headroom my friend :)

[JonnyOzero3]

Radiating pattern from drivers producing the same sounds in the space will not enhance the experience, the interaction will cause havoc to phase integrity, introduce lobing/combing to the space. Can’t deceive Physics I’m afraid.

I’ll reiterate again this is a fun setup for it’s intended accomplishment, and I’m optimistic it delivers the contents in movies in a big way.


Gotcha :) I don't wand to get too OT, but if you have the time, check out the thread at Ascend's forum:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3350

Dave F has his own measurements backing up how well this config works. Anyhow, see posts #35, #46, and especially #73.

Seriously, drop by and discuss it a bit if you like. :) I don't think Dave F specifically mention lobing/combing, so I'm asking if it was an issue. You just got me thinking and now I'm curious :)

Anyhow, sorry for the OT. Back to the ULS!

[Pete_Hsu]

Even better, radio shack has a 6' y-cable all male that goes straight from my pre-pro sub out and reaches to the top of my tower rack!

I haven't played the system today. Was coming down to pick up the next quarter pounder but got stuck running around.

All male, nice! :)

Geez, lol, another quarter pounder this week??? You will definitely be the first person to reach that level then!

What is the high and low pass crossover slope on your processor? I'm curious, because that could explain some of the directionality in the nearfield. But running the system with MBM's in front and ULS's in rear should take care of that, and then some ;)

[Mia&Lana's dad]

it was very very slight, I am just accustomed to front stage wall of sound. The guys can expand on their experience since they have never been in my room prior to that day.

I will try to find out if Integra published the slopes for the DTC-9.8

[cschang]

I just think he is crazy getting 8 of them!

When I was listening to music, if anything, the sensation was more with the chair itself, which could have helped with the illusion of the bass coming from behind. I would have to listen again...I was not really keying in on directionality(is that a word?).

[Pete_Hsu]

There is a saying in subwoofer land that there is no such thing as overkill, and the more the merrier :)

How close were the subs to the listening position?

Sometimes, depending on the construction of the couch, it can be a bit distracting to have the subwoofer directly behind the couch with the woofer firing into the couch. So a good way to get around that is to rotate the subwoofer 90 degrees so that the woofer fires sideways, or rotate it 180 degrees so that the woofer fires away from the couch.

[cschang]

Here is a good picture that illustrates where the two ULS's were when we heard them. In the back two corners of the room, with the Sierras sitting on them instead of the stands in the picture.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad-sittingarea.jpg

BTW...the master bedroom is above this room. :D

[Pete_Hsu]

Oh ok, great, that pic is perfect for illustration.

LOL, there is now a master audio room and master bedroom! I wonder what the wife thinks when sitting in bed upstairs :D

[Pete_Hsu]

Ron, I looked up your receiver, and it looks like a THX-certified receiver. All THX certified receivers have a 24db/oct low-pass crossover, which is nice and steep, so it should sound quite non-directional in the nearfield with 80Hz crossover. The only thing I can think of is that the subwoofers in the nearfield are exciting something close by which is making it sound a tiny bit directional on certain tracks. Moving down to a 50Hz crossover with MBM-12's in place should take care of this.

[cschang]

24dB/oct slope is only engaged in THX mode...right? I guess it would more simple for the pre/pro to have a 24dB slope in the non-THX mode too.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

yes you are correct, the main round chair is very exciting when the bass hits!

I will figure it out.

[lwm99]

Mia&Lana's dad,
From the great photos, I wonder how you have a good view of your TV? For a 52" TV, you are sitting too far away. It also seems to me that the TV is mounted too high up for good viewing. Maximum/Recommended THX viewing distance is 8.2ft/5.8ft. Or is there a projector/screen setup too? Interested to know more about your setup. Sorry, OT here. :)

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Thanks for the kind words. The perspective distortion creates the illusion that the TV is blocked by the speaker arrays due to the position where I took the shot - approximately at the ULS-15's centerline, close to the ground. The shot was setup at a very short distance to subject which isn't readily apparent because of the 14mm focal length used.

My viewing distance is about 13 feet away and the TV is angled downward, while my main watching/listening position is what they call a "low round, chair and a half." The natural reclined state is most comfortable and I do not suffer any eye strain or neck fatigue. I wasn't aware of that THX recommendation. It doesn't bother me, but I do have plans for projector setup. However, the OctoDrive comes first!

muwahahahhaahhaah

[mike c]

Pete or Dr. Hsu,

in lieu of 3rd party tests (since i would trust your specs anyway), can you share max output measurements (im sure you did these yourselves)?

i'm curious at how much clean SPL these guys can do at 10hz and 15hz ... thanks

[mziegler]

Oh ok, great, that pic is perfect for illustration.

LOL, there is now a master audio room and master bedroom! I wonder what the wife thinks when sitting in bed upstairs :D

Considering I felt like I needed a cigarette after being in the sweet spot after WOTW, I can only imagine.

[Ddavidson]

24dB/oct slope is only engaged in THX mode...right? I guess it would more simple for the pre/pro to have a 24dB slope in the non-THX mode too.
If memory serves me from when I had a THX PreAmp, part of the THX spec required that manufacturers make a 24dB slope only available in THX mode. Now perhaps thats changed in the past few years but I seem to remember questioning Meridian and/or Lexicon about this.

Ddavidson

[cacihome]

Thanks for the kind words. The perspective distortion creates the illusion that the TV is blocked by the speaker arrays due to the position where I took the shot - approximately at the ULS-15's centerline, close to the ground. The shot was setup at a very short distance to subject which isn't readily apparent because of the 14mm focal length used.

My viewing distance is about 13 feet away and the TV is angled downward, while my main watching/listening position is what they call a "low round, chair and a half." The natural reclined state is most comfortable and I do not suffer any eye strain or neck fatigue. I wasn't aware of that THX recommendation. It doesn't bother me, but I do have plans for projector setup. However, the OctoDrive comes first!

muwahahahhaahhaah

Ron,
What were you missing with the Conquest that you decided to get the MBM's and then the ULS-15 Quads?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

The MBM's were my first attempt to help take strain off the Sierra's at the levels I was playing them at. I clipped the amp hard a few times and burned up a couple. This was way before the stacked array. At the time, I wasn't missing anything with the Conquest.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

alright guys, new configuration - just finished getting the QuadDrive in their new places and level matched.

I moved two back in the rear corners set to 50hz internal x/o and ULF trim to 16hz - phase 180.

The other two are in the front corners internal x/o OUT (bypassed) with ULF trim set to 50hz - phase 0.

Each sub was independently level matched to 75db at the main LP. Together they play at 87db.

Now it's time to run Audyssey. I will post the graph when I'm done.

The Conquest/MBM's are not playing this round.

[bmbaker_1999]

Mia&Lana's Dad--I think you should sell tickets to that room. ;) -Jealous newbie here.

[cschang]

Ron, that setup should be interesting, but I think the upper bass is what benefits from being closer to the listening position.

I know you are trying to eliminate localization....maybe try sending bass below 80hz to all the subs this config with the trim at 16hz and see what it is like?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/harman-quad-1st-pass-50hz-rear-xo.gif

I suspect a combination of the 16hz ULF trim and the internal 50hz x/o for the rears is causing the dip.

I'm going to tweak some more and move things around.

[mwr0707]

Three hours with the DualDrives, only listening to music...

I've been experimenting with picking a xover point. At calibrated spl above 50hz there is very little noticeable difference from the Ohms, which have always had a pretty good bottom.

At 60hz and below what I notice most is what is missing - the boominess of the 15 year old sub these replaced.

Of course, the content below 30hz is another thing altogether. In a word, impact.

With the Ohms comparing well at 60hz, I think I'll leave the xover set there for now to minimize localization.

It's interesting that with all of the new low-end headroom available, with properly calibrated levels, my strongest perception of the change with most music is that it sounds cleaner and clearer.

Cinema tomorrow.

[Pete_Hsu]

Ron, may I ask what are your room dimensions (specifically, what is the front-to-back distance in your room)? Thanks

It looks like you were trying to use the ULS-15's up front as mid-bass modules. The only problem with that is that the ULS-15 with ULF Trim set to 50Hz rolls off much less quickly than the MBM-12. In other words, the MBM-12 is much more suitable for a two-way subwoofer setup.

[Pete_Hsu]

Three hours with the DualDrives, only listening to music...

I've been experimenting with picking a xover point. At calibrated spl above 50hz there is very little noticeable difference from the Ohms, which have always had a pretty good bottom.

At 60hz and below what I notice most is what is missing - the boominess of the 15 year old sub these replaced.

Of course, the content below 30hz is another thing altogether. In a word, impact.

With the Ohms comparing well at 60hz, I think I'll leave the xover set there for now to minimize localization.

It's interesting that with all of the new low-end headroom available, with properly calibrated levels, my strongest perception of the change with most music is that it sounds cleaner and clearer.

Cinema tomorrow.

Thanks a bunch mwr, it's really nice to hear your impressions on the new sub!

[Pete_Hsu]

Ron, it looks like the rear part of your room is pretty limited in terms of available placement options without blocking the door, correct?

This is what I recommend in your room: keep the ULS-15 QuadDrive system up front, as you had done earlier. If/when you add four more ULS-15, then re-orient so that you have one row of ULS-15's firing towards front wall, and then one row of ULS-15's firing towards the listening position, all of the eight subs in the front of the room. In other words, each pair of subs would be back to back with amplifier facing each other, at least one inch of space in between the amplifiers, and the front four subs would have driver firing foward. This should give all the headroom you would desire, would be pretty easy to set up and integrate, and you can experiment with the crossover to the main speakers without worrying about any localization.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Room Dimensions: 21'(L) x 11'(W) x 8'(H)

I have reconfigured the subs again, this time each ULS-15 is with a surround. I've reintroduced MBM-12's to the front stage.

QuadDrive are internally x/o @ 50hz with 16hz ULF trim. The MBM-12's x/o bypassed. All phase set to zero.

I'm in the middle of calibration.

[mike c]

This is what I recommend in your room: keep the ULS-15 QuadDrive system up front, as you had done earlier. If/when you add four more ULS-15, then re-orient so that you have one row of ULS-15's firing towards front wall, and then one row of ULS-15's firing towards the listening position, all of the true subs up front. In other words, each pair of subs would be back to back with amplifier facing each other, at least one inch of space in between the amplifiers, and the front four subs would have driver firing foward. This should give all the headroom you would desire, would be pretty easy to set up and integrate, and you can experiment with the crossover to the main speakers without worrying about any localization.

can you expound on what this front-back configuration will achieve?

[Pete_Hsu]

can you expound on what this front-back configuration will achieve?

Mike, I think that Ron has some room constraints at the back of his room (in the nearfield) which make it difficult to integrate subwoofers back there. I believe that the best combination of setup ease, performance, and aesthetics in his room will probably be to put all four (or eight back-to-back) ULS-15's up front. The back-to-back configuration is nothing overly special, just a clean way to set up all those subs up front without having to stack any subs. The Sierra-1 arrays up front can simply be put on top of the ULS subwoofers.

[mike c]

i see. thanks for the clarification Pete. do you guys have numbers for max output at 10-15hz?

[Pete_Hsu]

You are very welcome! Nope, I haven't seen that type of data yet, although this sub can take good advantage of room gain in most rooms to help boost the deep bass output and to help give in-room response in many rooms down to ~10Hz.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad-before-MBM12-ULS-15-quad-0711.gif

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad-after-MBM12-ULS-15-quad-07112.gif

[mwr0707]

Still experimenting with music...

It seems to me that I have a fuller, more 3-dimensional soundstage leaving the fronts set to large instead of small. This overlaps the lowest mid-bass with the subs, so with the xover still at 60, I've calibrated the uls-15 level a little lower. In this configuration, the subs essentially disappear until something like a kettle-drum sounds. Since I'm trying to reproduce the original mix as accurately as I can rather than create a bass-enhanced performance, this is a good thing.

Pete, you've said that at the show demo, the uls-15s were played with the MBMs off. Can you elaborate on this? Was this mainly due to the effects of the demo room or was it a result of the uls-15 mid-bass in comparision to the ported models?

Thanks,
-Mark

[JonnyOzero3]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad-before-MBM12-ULS-15-quad-0711.gif

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/MLdad-after-MBM12-ULS-15-quad-07112.gif


Wow that's flat. How does it sound?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

No smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/4-of-8-locations-overlay-no-smoothi.gif

1/3 smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/4-of-8-locations-overlay-smoothed.gif

Averaged, no smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/averaged-no-smoothing.gif

Averaged, 1/3 smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/averaged-third-smoothing.gif


I ran 8 positions during Audyssey calibration. For REW, I placed the radio shack analog SPL meter in only 4 of those original locations for time constraints.

Audyssey only corrects to 20Hz, but the upcoming SubEQ looks like it will continue down to 10Hz. Hopefully it can work its magic down there.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Wow that's flat. How does it sound?

Haven't gone through any of the scenes yet, but I quickly zipped through Cloverfield and it is the strongest LFE I've experienced so far at -35db on my pre-pro when I just wrapped up the calibration. I couldn't risk waking everyone, but DAAAAAM it was already shaking the whole house.

Later, I will go through everything, but so far - this sounds devastating! And for music - the slight localization of the rear subs is gone. It just keeps getting better and better. Well, except for that funky configuration I tried right before this one. Maybe I'll revisit that again without tweaking the ULF trims and just leave it at 16hz.

[cacihome]

Yes cloverfield has some intense parts! The bridge scene, the Bad Robot scene, the monster stomps on ground...WOW!
Try the last chapter at the beginning when the big monster appears and put his foot on the ground....(1h:48mins-1:52 I think)(It is the strongest part I have found)
If it is not too much to ask... Can the Conquest handle that scene alone without unloading? At what max volume levels on sub or knob of the sub?
I ask because the Conquest has no subsonic filter, and I imagine it unloads in low content in certain scenes like WOTW, Flight of the Phoenix,Matrix Revolutions, etc...

[cacihome]

Peter and everyone looks like Dr.Johnson did a test to the F113 and indeed it is a good performer...but the distortion numbers are a little high I think. for such an expensive unit...
100db @20hz@12% THD seems not too high, but high enough, I know that you know what I mean!

Same story as always...If it is a Velo, or a JL, or a Paradigm, or any other expensive sub then they say it is difficult to do 20hz...So unfair some reviews are!
Look at the review of the velodyne microvee...it had problems even doing 25hz and the reviewer said it was a good sub!!!jejejejeje. What the Hell?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwo...subwoofer.html

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Yes cloverfield has some intense parts! The bridge scene, the Bad Robot scene, the monster stomps on ground...WOW!
Try the last chapter at the beginning when the big monster appears and put his foot on the ground....(1h:48mins-1:52 I think)(It is the strongest part I have found)
If it is not too much to ask... Can the Conquest handle that scene alone without unloading? At what max volume levels on sub or knob of the sub?
I ask because the Conquest has no subsonic filter, and I imagine it unloads in low content in certain scenes like WOTW, Flight of the Phoenix,Matrix Revolutions, etc...

Thanks for the timestamps, I'll check them out for sure.

I've played those scenes with the Conquest and it never did anything wrong for me and handled everything I threw at it. Again, I believe Audyssey only correcting down to 20hz keeps everything safe and happy.

[cacihome]

Im saying not at calibrated levels , but when you run the Conquest very hot(10db hot or so)...

It has to unload... Check that last chapter scene at more than halfway volume in the knob and the Conquest should unload...

[Mia&Lana's dad]

No I run my scenes hard. The Conquest never burped, chuffed or anything bad for me. When I blew my sierra's I was seeing 120db at the LP.

[cacihome]

MMM. OK. Weird, but OK.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

do you want me to make it unload? Maybe if I don't calibrate it and turn all the gains up and max the volume that would do it?

[lanion]

To be fair, if a sub sounded AWESOME above 30hz but had a -48db/octave slope below 30hz, it could still be a "good" sub.

If you were the type of reviewer to call many speakers 'Full Range' even whey they are not, this could be understandable.

For example, I LOVE my Totem Hawks. Totem claims they are "truly full range" even though they only have one 5 1/4" driver. its damn impressive for one driver, but it is only solid to a little below 50hz, and it is crazy to call that full range. Sure, it sounds good with an upright bass, but not as good as with a sub.

Music reviewers used to these kind of speakers arn't that good at reviewing subs. And people who make speakers like these and call them full range usually don't make the best subs, no matter how awesome the speakers are.

[cacihome]

do you want me to make it unload? Maybe if I don't calibrate it and turn all the gains up and max the volume that would do it?


JAJAJJA
no Ron No... I just wanted to know if it unloads at 10db hot vs the speakers...

[Mia&Lana's dad]

okay next time the conquest is back in the system I'll try it out for you.

[mojave]

Cacimar,

I love how you always laugh in Spanish! :D HaHaHa

[Pete_Hsu]

Hey Mark,

Pete, you've said that at the show demo, the uls-15s were played with the MBMs off. Can you elaborate on this? Was this mainly due to the effects of the demo room or was it a result of the uls-15 mid-bass in comparision to the ported models?

Thanks,
-Mark

One reason we didn't turn the MBM on at T.H.E. SHOW is because we had a ULS-15 DualDrive [prototype] system already placed in the nearfield behind the listening position. Things were already sounding so good that we didn't bother trying to add MBM-12 to the system. That said, the MBM-12 should still boost system performance in most cases, even with the new sub, because it will allow one to optimally position for best mid-bass and best deep bass response while providing lower intermodulation distortion and wider dynamic range too.

[cacihome]

Cacimar,

I love how you always laugh in Spanish! :D HaHaHa

You know you are the second person to say that to me JonnyOzero was the first one... Very funny!
As you said, in Puerto Rico forums we always laugh like that...

[mwr0707]

...That said, the MBM-12 should still boost system performance in most cases, even with the new sub, because it will allow one to optimally position for best mid-bass and best deep bass response while providing lower intermodulation distortion and wider dynamic range too.

Thanks Pete. Would this still be the case in a 1/4 shallow room situation. The couch is pushed back against a wall that extends 25% into the room. This wall is about 12 feet from the front wall. The beyond the end of that, it's open back to the kitchen, about 30 feet.

Needless to say, the perceived bass level varies widely depending on which end of the couch you are sitting on. I calibrate for the 2 couch cushions on the open side, so when sitting in front of the wall, the bass is somewhat overdone. But the overall balance (and stereo imaging!) all the way back to the kitchen is still good. With just the 2 ULS-15's and suitable content, I'm getting pressurization effects standing 20 feet back.

Should I use tone generation to measure SPL at 60-150hz to look for gaps?

Thanks,
-Mark

[Mia&Lana's dad]

no smoothing
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/no-audyssey-no-smoothing-1-foot-dir.gif

smoothed 1/3
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/no-audyssey-smoothing-1-foot-direct.gif



1 ft facing cone

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi Mark,

Thanks Pete. Would this still be the case in a 1/4 shallow room situation. The couch is pushed back against a wall that extends 25% into the room. This wall is about 12 feet from the front wall. The beyond the end of that, it's open back to the kitchen, about 30 feet.

Needless to say, the perceived bass level varies widely depending on which end of the couch you are sitting on. I calibrate for the 2 couch cushions on the open side, so when sitting in front of the wall, the bass is somewhat overdone. But the overall balance (and stereo imaging!) all the way back to the kitchen is still good. With just the 2 ULS-15's and suitable content, I'm getting pressurization effects standing 20 feet back.

Should I use tone generation to measure SPL at 60-150hz to look for gaps?

Thanks,
-Mark

Yes, even then the MBM-12 can improve the system. In my opinion, the mid-bass region (primarily 50-80Hz) is best reproduced very close to the listening position and away from the corner, while deep bass (50Hz and below) tends to be best reproduced in a corner. However, in some rooms it is not practical to add the MBM-12 in the nearfield due to placement constraints. In these cases, one can either use a couple MBM-12 up front, or just use true subwoofers.

I think you should be in very good shape with the DualDrive system, especially considering that your front speakers seem to have good mid-bass punch on their own. You can use our Test CD for test tones to measure SPL at the listening position for 1/3 octave spaced frequencies, so that you can get a good idea if the subwoofer is level matched with the mains...

Sincerely,

[mwr0707]

Hi Mark,

... You can use our Test CD for test tones to measure SPL at the listening position for 1/3 octave spaced frequencies, so that you can get a good idea if the subwoofer is level matched with the mains...



Thanks Pete! I'll try that. By the way, I cranked up track 1 on the Test CD last night. The only other thing that moves the wall studs like that are the 90+ mph wind gusts we get in the Boulder, CO area. :)

[Pete_Hsu]

Thanks Pete! I'll try that. By the way, I cranked up track 1 on the Test CD last night. The only other thing that moves the wall studs like that are the 90+ mph wind gusts we get in the Boulder, CO area. :)

LOL :D I must admit that these fairly compact subs really do sound great with that pipe organ recording...!

[Mia&Lana's dad]

not smoothed - Audyssey off

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/pro-kit-mic-preamp-audyssey-off-1-f.gif

not smoothed - Audyssey on

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/pro-kit-mic-preamp-audyssey-engaged.gif


overlayed - smoothed

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/pro-kit-mic-preamp-audyssey-overlay.gif

same test - new mic/preamp - 1 foot from cone

[cschang]

where is the ULF trim set on that particular sub?

[Mia&Lana's dad]

16hz

Looks like it is performing right at spec, EQ'd in-room!

I really didn't trust the RS SPL meter, and that's why I mentioned that as a disclaimer earlier in the day.

[cschang]

close mic'd and without EQ, I don't think we should be seeing that roll off at 30hz.

[JonnyOzero3]

yeah, that's a steeper roll-off than I'd expect to see for a sealed sub...

[Mia&Lana's dad]

That sub was the right rear corner so the mic was between it and the round chair. Is it possible to have any reflections or cancellations because of the chair, the sub's close proximity to the corner and the Tri-Trap behind it? Also, the adjacent walls.

[Pete_Hsu]

Ron, the Audyssey off graph is quite puzzling to me. With ULF Trim set to 16Hz, the subwoofer should have very flat response down to 16Hz, and should not be rolling off below 30Hz with a close-miked measurement. If that were the case, then the deep bass would subjectively sound very soft. Where was the subwoofer placed when you measured it?

I recommend trying the ULS-15 QuadDrive system up front, and then doing some measurements of the uncorrected frequency response from your listening position.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

See my post above yours for the tested sub placement.

Maybe my laptop soundcard isnt calibrated properly or insufficient?

[cschang]

Pete posted "the Audyssey off" graph.

With Audyssey off.....and a close mic'd, the sub should be flat to 16hz.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

yeah I read it too fast, didn't have my coffee yet. I've since edited the post. I'm thinking my soundcard can't keep up. There's a thread on the shack about this concerning better audio interface if low frequency performance doesn't seem to jive.

[cschang]

Yeah....but then that really would be weird because the Audyssey "on" graph looks fine.

I think what is also interesting is that the Audyssey "on" graph is flat with the close mic measurement. Is that because you had Audyssey calibrate/EQ for that mic placement?

[cschang]

actually...the rolloff does seem to be steep in both cases, and the slope fairly similar.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

no didn't calibrate for that close specifically.

[cschang]

no didn't calibrate for that close specifically.

Then that really is interesting because with the Audyssey "on" it should not be that flat close mic'd if was EQ'd with the mic in a different position.

If you have time, you should take a measurement from the same place you did the EQ.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

I'm going to head down to guitar center, Sam Ash is out of stock on the m-audio mobile pre.

No sense in taking more measurements with the laptop soundcard.

[cschang]

Actually, the more I think about it.....

Make sure THX mode and Audyssey are turned off. I think THX mode may be causing the rolloff we see.

If the soundcard was the problem, I don't think the Audyssey "on" graph would not look the way it does.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

I ran it Direct mode, THX and audyssey disengaged.

Perhaps the internal soundcard is only decent to a certain point and loses resolving power quickly beyond that.

Have to eliminate the doubt and explore weakest link in the chain. I'm willing to get this external soundcard because while my data seems to be skewed, it is fairly consistent.

[cschang]

Understood.

But the differences between the Audyssey on and off graphs suggest that the card is not having a problem measuring the differences below 30hz.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

That is also why I do not want to chase my tail for the sub that should not be reading this way. It deserves benefit of the doubt and the burden of proof lies on my shoulders and inadequate measurement. I'm going to fix that.

I want to know what Audyssey is doing below 20hz as well as see what the ULS-15 is truly capable of. This is all obsessive and academic anyway because my real life experience is not lacking.

[cschang]

Well...if you put it that way.....

Wish I had free time to help this weekend.

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Thanks for being a good friend, I know you're trying to save me some money.

my wife just made more spin dip too!

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Audyssey engaged, no smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/aud-mobile-pre-prokit-mic-0712208-u.gif


No EQ, no smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/no-EQ-mobile-pre-prokit-mic-0712208.gif


overlayed, smoothed

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/aud-vs-no-EQ-mobile-pre-prokit-mic-.gif



Here are some new graphs measured with an m-audio MobilePre USB soundcard along with my Audyssey Pro-kit mic/pre-amp setup. Same test, single ULS-15, 1 foot distance from the cone.

The only thing I do not have is an REW calibration file for my mic/pre-amp combo. I successfully calibrated the new MobilePre in REW. There isn't such a process in REW i'm missing, right?

So if we can trust these measurements, what can we conclude?

- my room just falls off hard in the mid teens?
- the pre-pro has something funky going on
- will introducing an external EQ help if any of the above are true?

Heading out to see what I can find on the shelves.

[Pete_Hsu]

That looks much better!!! That is more along of the lines of what I would expect.

The "no eq" response looks very good. Note that the response is about +/- 5db from 15-80Hz, and that 12Hz and 90Hz are equal in level. That said, you might want to try measuring at the listening position to get a better sense of what type of room gain you are really getting.

To smooth out that small hump in response at ~18Hz, try adjusting the ULF Trim control upward a tiny little bit.

[cschang]

Looks very good, but the rolloff is still fast than I would expect, but it does look much better. In fact, I think I would like the non-EQ'd response better for movies...and possibly for music.

How was that spinach dip? :)

[Mia&Lana's dad]

Audyssey engaged, no smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/2m-audyssey-no-smoothing.gif

No EQ, no smoothing

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/2m-no-eq-no-smoothing.gif

overlayed, smoothed

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll147/MLdad/AVS/2m-overlay-audyssey-vs-no-eq.gif


Here are 2m graphs.