Need Help Choosing Sub for my Set-up

[MACinPittsford]

This is my first post here.

I recently upgraded my HT from an old HTIB set-up. My AVR is a Pioneer VSX-1120. My speakers are Energy RC-50’s (front right and left) and Energy RC-LCR (center). Because of difficulties running wiring and locating additional speakers, I’ll probably stick with a 3.1 set-up for now. So, it’s time to upgrade my sub.

My HT is along one wall in the living room, which is 15’x15’x8.5’(h). The living room opens up to my dining room to the right of the HT and a bar area to the left. The dining room is 12’x18’x9’(h), and the bar is 9’x15’x8.5’(h). Opposite the HT is mostly wall, except for a 3’ opening into a hallway. Floors are hardwood (except for an area rug which does not extend to the HT. I will want to place the sub against the same wall as the HT because of my wiring issues.

I am attaching pictures.

I’m guessing that usage will be about 60% HT, 30% music and 10% gaming. I typically listen at moderate volume.

My main question is what sub to buy. I was considering the Hsu VTF-2 MK3 and the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. First, are these subs adequate for my space? Second, is there an advantage to me of one over the other? I understand the Outlaw is down firing, but I don’t know whether this is an advantage or not in my set-up. Third, is there a different sub I should consider?

Thanks.

[tafguy]

Considering that the old vtf-2 mk2 I own with woofer size only 10 in http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2.html
the new mk3 has bigger woofer size and accomodates bigger room size with level loudness 3 vs loudness 2 on the vtf-2 mk2, which is already so loud for my basement of dimension 12ft x 34ft. So for room size concern, it will fit nicely in the room.

Myself was also looking the old Outlaw LFM-1 but ended up buying the now discontinued HSU VTF-2mk2 for the simple reasons of so good reviews and credibility of HSU's sub, I took a leap of faith and haven't regretted my decision. I can't comment on the Outlaw's sub's performance since I don't own one. Unless you have a specific flavor of what Outlaw LFM-1 plus over HSU's equivalent or a lack of features, I can only say the VTF-2 series is really a good and solid investment for the good it delivers in term of musicality, bass that knocks the air out of your chest.

If asked which one to buy, I recommend anyone who is still undecided what to buy is simply read the feedbacks in the forum if you're not convinced. Some winning factors as how low the sub can go and the level of distortion at which SPL. You can take a look as how the old Vtf2-mk2 performs amazingly 25 Hz at over 100 db with 10% distortion which not all subs can achieve with such performance.

Tg

[MACinPittsford]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've read very positive reviews and comments on both subs and probably can't go wrong with either. I also read from multiple sources that Dr. Hsu designed the Outlaw sub, so the quality must be pretty comparable.

I was wondering, though, whether the down firing sub has any advantages or disadvantages in my room. I may have to place the sub very close to the back wall. Is that a problem with the VTF-2.3 having its ports in the rear? At the very least, I know I would not be able to use the turbo attachment. Does it matter that I have hardwood floors? Would I need to put one or the other of the subs on a pad or riser?

I'm sure there are other questions, but I am not too sophisticated in this area, so I'm not sure what else to ask.

[tafguy]

Remember that low bass freqs are omni-directionnal. Thus, whether or not the sub is front firing or down firing should not matter.

Read more:
http://forum.hsuresearch.com/archive/index.php/t-540.html
If you have pets or small kids, may be downfiring is a safer choice.

Some do elevate the sub off the floor but I haven't done it on mine since I haven't found any problem which affects the sub's performance sonically. It's best to experiment yourself with different placements to see what's best.

Tg

[MACinPittsford]

I've done some measuring, and to give the VTF-2 MK3 the required space between the ports and the wall, I'd have to place it next to the sofa, as if it were an end table (that would be in the corner, to the left as I face the sofa). That is adjacent to the main listening position and on the opposite side of the room from my speakers. And I can only do that if I am able to run the sub cable through that back wall and down into the basement (that could be a challenge).

I've read several posts recommending placement of the sub next to the listener in certain cases. Intuitively, though, it seems strange to have the sound stage in the front of the room while the bass originates in the back of the room -- especially for music. Am I mistaken?

[MACinPittsford]

OK, I read through the owner's manual on line, and I understand that the VTF-2 MK3 is "down firing." And while the pictures on the product page don't show it, I've found other pictures on the internet showing the ports in the back. So, I take it that the term "down firing" only pertains to the speaker and not the ports.

But there still may be an issue of noise created by air coming from the ports. If the sub is placed next to the seating position, I'm wondering whether this presents a distraction to the listener that would not be the case for a sub with the ports on the bottom. Can anyone who has this sub (or another rear-ported Hsu sub) and has placed the sub near the listening position comment on their experience?

[tafguy]

In the below threads, I've tried sub in various position during my own tests

Sub was placed next to sofa
http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=1498

Sub behind sofa
http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=1247

For what I remembered, bass impact was impressive right next behind sofa, as closer to the sub, visually it seems to be seen a distraction but once you calibrated sub and satellite speakers, I did not even notice it is there. Overtime, it still remains my preferred position.

I'm running test with PA Mackie speaker so it has moved in front til it'll be moved back behind the coach when I got this all setup!

No issue of noise I know of. It's probably by design that HSU uses ports on top and sub downfiring for VTF2 series and the results are truly amazing.

Tg

[MACinPittsford]

Thanks for your impressions -- very helpful to know. And I enjoyed reading through the posts on your tests.