VTF vs STF

[gary]

I am looking at the STF 2 or the VTF 2. Is the VTF feature important for HT usage? Besides the extra 50 watts on the VTF, I am trying to decide if spending the extra $100 will payoff for HT usage? Thanks.

[young]

http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=659

i think all i need is the STF, but the VTF is only $100 more... aaaaargh! can't decide.

VTF has:
+50 watts using a BASH amp (i think) - all around better/more efficient amp
metal spikes
light up logo :D

[mitro]

The diff is only $50 due to free shipping on backorder.
Plus you get the test CD and Max Extension option.

50 bux man, get the VTF.

--john--

[Dudley]

Don't forget the logo that lights up, and the brass feet on the VTF. :D

The diff is $75 because shipping is $25 - still less than $100 though. Of course you could wait until the STF-2 is backordered to save on shipping there - if they still have that policy.

[Retread]

I am looking at the STF 2 or the VTF 2. Is the VTF feature important for HT usage? Besides the extra 50 watts on the VTF, I am trying to decide if spending the extra $100 will payoff for HT usage? Thanks.

The minimum sound level detectable by the human ear is 3dB. To get a 3 dB increase in sound level, you have to double the power. An increase of 50 watts is nowhere near enough to hear.

The STF plays louder than the VTF within its range, so if your system is marginal on sound level, the STF would probably be better for HT than the VTF. However, it seems to me that the trend in movies is to go deeper in bass range. So the extended range may become more important for HT.

I went the other way and bought the VTF-3R and keep it in the extended mode. Plenty of volume, and I don't miss out on anything I could hear, and some I can only feel.

[mitro]

He's talking about the "STF-2" which is already in Max extension mode.

In that case, the decision is harder.

For the $75 difference, you get:
Brass feet. (Do they match your decor? Would they stand out?)
Light up logo. (some people like it, some hate it claiming too much light )
Max Output option. (will you use it?)
Bass test CD (this supposedly has more on it than the downloadable MP3s and would cost $40 if purchased separately)


--john--

[Retread]

[QUOTE=mitro]He's talking about the "STF-2" which is already in Max extension mode.

You are correct. The product page says the STF-2 is in extended mode. But wasn't there some confusion in the earlier production over which mode it was/should be? Somewhat like the confusion over whether the Ventriloquist Center is ported or not (mine is, later ones aren't). Regardless, I had it backward.

[mitro]

The confusion was with the STF-3, which was mistakenly tuned ME, but later changed to MO. The STF-2 was always tuned ME.
Originally, I assumed STF-3 also ($50 difference).

--john--

[Michael Bain]

The STF plays louder than the VTF within its range, so if your system is marginal on sound level, the STF would probably be better for HT than the VTF.

The STF-3 plays louder than the VTF-2. The STF-2 does not play louder than the VTF-2.

[Sasha_G]

The increase of 50 watts does not make much of a difference in output compared to a difference in woofer size, which makes a substantial difference. The output levels of the 2s (VTF-2, STF-2) will be similar as long as the VTF-2 is in Max Extension (read: deep) mode. In Max Output (read: loud) mode, the VTF-2 will have the edge in output (2-3 dB). Those two ports on the VTF-2 help it get LOUD.

Lets also keep output number in perspective. The VTF-2, when in Max Output mode, is amongst the top 5 (in average max. output) or so of all the 50+ subwoofers Tom Nousaine has ever measured. It is able to produce more clean bass than many 15 inch or 1000 watt subwoofers.

So, the question is, which do you care about? Powerful amplifier, or powerful output. I think most people would go for output.

You can go with the 3s (VTF-3, STF-3) and get more output than just about any mid-priced subwoofer on the market. AND you get the musicality that has earned HSU Research its reputation.

[ericb]

What about choosing between a VTF-2 MK2 w/the gloss finish (in stock) and a STF-3 w/matte finish (in stock)? The final pricing with shipping is about the same on these two setups. I need to get something right away (which is why I am focusing on in stock models) because I am a little reluctant to be without the system for 2-3 weeks and may be out of town at the end of April. The VTF-3 w/gloss finish (in stock) is a little out of my price range at the moment.

I like the idea of the VTF giving me the flexibility to change between max output and lower bass extension (I think this makes it a little more wife friendly, and I tend to stay up late watching a movie while the rest of the family heads off to bed).

My room is an open concept layout where the area with my seating/widescreen/5.1 setup is about 13 x 18 (wood floor) continues on through my kitchen (13 x 19, tile floor), to make a total space of 13 X 37 (less the space taken up by cabinets around the perimeter of the kitchen).

Right now I've got a Boston Acoustics sub in a corner behind a loveseat that is rated at 200watts and extends to 29Hz. I'm returning it over the next couple of days (my 30 days are up!) in order to get the Hsu...but which one? Any ideas for my (screwy) layout? thanks!

[mitro]

Get the VTF-3.
If in doubt, use the room configurator on the home page.

--john--

[Retread]

[QUOTE=ericb]My room is an open concept layout where the area with my seating/widescreen/5.1 setup is about 13 x 18 (wood floor) continues on through my kitchen (13 x 19, tile floor), to make a total space of 13 X 37 (less the space taken up by cabinets around the perimeter of the kitchen).

Big room. Go for the big speaker. My room is about the same volume, and I have the VT-3R set for extended mode. Dr. Hsu felt the -2 might be a bit small for my room volume.

[cschang]

I like the idea of the VTF giving me the flexibility to change between max output and lower bass extension (I think this makes it a little more wife friendly, and I tend to stay up late watching a movie while the rest of the family heads off to bed).

Properly calibrated, the two modes will sound just about identical. The max ext mode will be able to get a little deeper. The max output mode will be capable of louder volumes by a couple of dB....but really not noticeable unless the room too big for the sub in max extension mode.....so probably not more wife friendly.

That said...like what others have suggested, for you room, the bigger sub would fair better.

[ericb]

Thanks. Filled out the room configurator questionnaire as recommended by mitro so I guess I'll see what the good doctor (or his appointend representative) has to say. In the meantime, curious what size space owners of the VTF-2 MK2 have and whether they're satisfied.

btw, I probably spend as much (possibly more) time listening to music/watching concert footage as I do watching movies. Not sure if that makes any difference.

[Dudley]

If you have the room for, and wife approval for the STF-3, then I would get that over the VTF2 -II. The STF-3 will have as much extention as the STF in max extention mode, but will have much more output. The only reason to go for the VTF-2 over the STF-3 would be aesthetics. I like the black vinyl finish.

[DNelms]

I am having the same questions. I had sent a request to the good Dr. and for my room he recomended thw STF-3. However, looking at all the info sheets. extras, fit and finish I may be leaning toward the VTF-3.

I also have a little story from personal experience. :rolleyes:

I had a chance to audition some of Dr. Hsu's earlier subs and was very impressed with the 12V. Then while at the Stereophile show I again was impressed with Dr. Hsu's room using the 12V's little brother, the 10V. I bought the 10V and it has served me well for about 7 years. It replaced an Infinity Kappa series subwoofer with 2 12 inch drivers. There were a few times I wish I had gone with the bigger woofer. Now I ready to upgrade and I have decided I am really going to do my homework (and legwork) befor my purchase because I want to get the most for my money.

The way I figure it if the cost difference is a $100 and given the fact that my current HSU sub is still in use after seven years, I am willing to go with the sub that can do moreand not have any buyers remorse a few years from now. ;)

But I also want mine now so I hope when the time comes they are not on back order. :mad:

[mitro]

btw, I probably spend as much (possibly more) time listening to music/watching concert footage as I do watching movies. Not sure if that makes any difference.

Yes, it does.
I bet he recommends a VTF-3 if not the TN series.

--john--

[Michael Bain]

Dnelms,

The beautiful thing about the VTF-3 is that you can have your cake and eat it too. Want ultra low extension for your pipe organ music? Stick it in maximum extension mode. Want a few db's of extra output to impress the neighbors for your movies? Take out the plug for maximum output.

The STF-3 is a better deal for those who are not interested in changing tuning point and would rather have extra output and headroom vs ultra low end extension, and that is why Dr. Hsu is fond of recommending it, but the VTF-3 brings the best of all worlds to the plate, with a little bit of extra power, a blue logo, and some nice metal feet to boot.

You are in Cali, have you ever considered swinging by Hsu's offices for a listen to all the new subs?

[Ddavidson]

I have had the excellent VTF-3 and VTF-2 for many years and to be honest they have never really moved from max extension mode. Thats why the first of the STF-3's in the 20Hz tune was IMO the bargain buy of the Hsu range.
I noticed this in room graph of a 20Hz tuned STF-3 which shows good extension. Its a shame Hsu do not do this model as a permanent option.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsdata/578974-HsuLS.gif
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=558589&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=107&vc=1


Ddavidson

[mitro]

Has anyone figured out the difference in the circuitry?
Maybe with a bit of solder and a few components we can get our MO STF-3 to be ME STF-3?

--john--

[DNelms]

Michael-

Yes I have considered going down to thier offices. Had an appointment last week but missed it due to some work and family issues. I have made an appointment for tomorrow and plan on bringing the wife with me. I also got some good info from Saha in an e-mail that relates that the STF-3 can also be tuned via a tuning plug :D

However adding to the cost of the sub as well as looking at the fit and finish I still may go with the VTF over the STF but I am not going to make any decisions without listening to both subs first. I am also looking to get an in home demo from a forum member who lives near me, as soon as my work schedule cooperates.

Then I hope I can make up my mind

[Michael Bain]

Looks like you have got your bases covered, Dnelms. You will feel very good knowing that you did your homework and listened with your own ears instead of letting other people try to mold your decision.

Let us know how your trip goes. The word on the street is that Dr. Hsu has traded in his slacks and dress shoes for shorts, tennis shoes, and a backwards baseball cap as he has given up classical music and is now listening solely to thumping hip hop music. I would love to see someone verify that :)

[DNelms]

Michael-

Went down to the offices today. Did not meet the good Dr. but I did meet a few of the fine employees. I was only able to hear the VTF :eek: sub .

Due to a conflicting time with another customer I opted to cut the visit short. :o

Oh well, I still was able to see some cool stuff. Got to hear the Ventriloquist speakers. Very impressive.

I am hoping to get a follow-up visit. Prior to purchase I would just like to hear how the different subs stack up against each other.

Too bad the VTF-3 in matte black is on back order..... :mad:

[DNelms]

I had the chance to go over to Curtis' home and audition two subs and compare them against each other in an in home situation.

I was very inpressed with the SFT-2 that was set up first. I t is amazing how hard that sub hits and how deep that sub can play. As I related earlier, I have an old 10V and the new STF is a huge improvement.

Them he hooked up the VTF-3. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

It was awsome. The impact was similar but it seemed to be so much more effortless. I do not know technically hoe the two stack up, but I just enjoyed the VTF more.

Could I be happy with either sub? Absolutely!

Can each sub rock the house? No doubt!

Which one am I going to get? I am leaning hard toward the VTF, hopefully someone will give me a push over the edge and I will get one.

Thanks again Curtis.

[Retread]

[QUOTE=DNelms]Which one am I going to get? I am leaning hard toward the VTF, hopefully someone will give me a push over the edge and I will get one.

I notice a post above wity a plot of SPL in the 90 dB range. I've done similar plots with my VTF-3R in the 110 dB SPL range. This in a room that's essentially 15' x 35' with 10' ceilings.

If you buy anything less, you'll think about it every time you listen. Consider how much an hour of your time is worth, how many hours you'll listen, and how many hours you'll be happy or regretful.

It's like a guy I know who was driving his family from Houston to Disney World and staying in the hinterlands instead of the Disney Hotel. I pointed out that he would be giving up 6 days of his life (vacation) driving there and back, in addition to the expense of the car, in addition to four motel nights on the road, in addition to food for six days. He fumed for a few minutes, picked up the phone, and made reservations for the Disney Hotel.

Buy anything less than a -3 with max extension and your life will be destroyed.

[cschang]

DNelms....you are very welcome!

It looks like Retread is doing a great job of giving you that final push!

From our conversation, I think you are thinking the same way he is.

[DNelms]

Yes you all are pushing me. And I think it is in the right direction.

If someone can just get over to the IRS and start pushing my refund check a little fatser...... :rolleyes:

Just a second thought. In home auditions are great. Thanks again curtis.

When I get mine you will have to stop by.

Dave

[cschang]

HEHEHE.....

Well, going to your place may push me toward buying a big screen, and I am not sure I want to feel that push right now! :D

[DNelms]

Cutis-

The guts for the TV are still at the shop :mad: Hopefully it will be back soon.

Still waiting for Uncle Sam to send me my return so I can make the drive down to Anahiem and see what they have in stock. :p With my luck, by the time I et my check all of the VTF-3 subs will be on back order.....