calibration/setup advise

[Zivman]

Coming from the other thread:
my setup:
Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
HSU Ultra 2 speakers in a 5.2

My setup is in my basement. The room is 14' long x 10' wide and is open on the backside of the seating area to an area that is 18' long x another 10' wide. Ceilings are fairly low at just over 7'

The display is on the wall that is 14'. My seating area is ~10 ft from my display/fronts. The only solid corner I have in the room is to the right of the display when you are looking at from the seating area. I have my subs in nearfield on each side of my couch which is offset slightly to the display due to a support beam in my house. My speakers are on 36" stands, putting the tweaters at ~ 42" off the ground. The speakers are off the wall by just over 12" for the fronts, and about 6-7" for the rears. The center channel sits on a shelf below the display ~ 2' off the ground.

Basically, I set the subs to about 10 o'clock and ran the auto calibration through the pioneer. I went back in, set the X-over to 80, and set the speakers to small (THX mode). Unfortunately my nice SPL meter I recieved for Xmas two yrs ago fell victim to my dog who broke off the dial, so no SPL metering... I felt the subs needed a little more, so I went in and upped the sub output on the pioneer by 3db. Other than that, I left things alone :)

Like I said, I have chadB coming out in 2 days to dial things in. Both on my display and audio setup. I know the huge potential that display calibrations are capable of, and I am expected that with my speakers as well.

I don't want to come off as sounding like I am dissapointed, as I am not. It took my some months to get my other speaker setup where I like it, and I expected to have to do some tweaking to this one as well

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi Zivman,

Thanks for sharing all this info!

With the speakers on 36" tall stands, I think that the center of the tweeter is several inches above your ear level when you are sitting down, correct? If so, then I would recommend using shorter stands. The HB-1 MK2's sound significantly better when the ear level is at or above the center of the tweeter. Also, if possible, I recommend experimenting with toe-in.

Also, I recommend sitting ~ 11 ft away from the front wall if possible, and use the ULS-15's as endtables on each side of the couch. With an SPL meter and the test tone CD that comes with the subs, you can adjust the subwoofer volume on each ULS so that they are equally loud at the listening position, and then adjust the subwoofer channel level on the receiver so that the two subs together are level matched with your main speakers.

Sincerely,

[Zivman]

Hi Zivman,

Thanks for sharing all this info!

With the speakers on 36" tall stands, I think that the center of the tweeter is several inches above your ear level when you are sitting down, correct? If so, then I would recommend using shorter stands. The HB-1 MK2's sound significantly better when the ear level is at or above the center of the tweeter. Also, if possible, I recommend experimenting with toe-in. Finally, try putting the subs next to each other in the front right corner to see how well that works out compared to your current subwoofer location.

Sincerely,

The speakers are actually on 31" stands...had that incorrect in my post. These are the stands I am using (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_051BF31B/Sanus-BF31B-Speaker-Stands.html?search=speaker+stands) the speaker's tweets are at exactly my ear level...

As far as the subs, I tried them in that corner, and found the nearfield placement is what I preferred.

[Pete_Hsu]

Zivman, I edited my post above a bit after speaking with Dr. Hsu :)

Those speaker stands seem good...

[kmitchell]

Zivman,

Pete beat me to it.

You'll notice in my original thread I described how I cut down my speaker stands to make them the proper height. After visiting with Pete in Anaheim I took away how important the tweeter height was for these horn speakers. When I unpacked and tested the speakers on the first night I put them on top of the packing boxes and aligned myself with the tweeters when I listened to them. When I put them on the stands that weekend I really noticed how different they sounded from my main listening position. It was as I was getting up from the main listening position that I passed through the sweet spot which was about 7" higher than I was sitting. That's when I knew I was going to have to cut down the speaker stands because they were already adjusted as low as they would go.

As for the height of the surrounds I set them to a recommended 24" above ear level (I think I got this from the DTS site) and then adjusted them until they sounded the way I liked them. Turns out this was about 20".

Pete already covered the subs. It sounds like you have them sort of out in the middle of the room if you had them on either side of the couch. In a corner is almost always better and in my case I can put the sub in a corner that is nearfield.

Good Luck and let us know how it goes,
Ken

Oops. Got distracted and didn't refresh before posting this. Like Pete's got you going with his updated info. -Ken

[Zivman]

thanks for the advise. I will share this with chad tomorrow.

This is the chad I am referencing (http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/display_types-rear_projection.htm)

[thsmith]

thanks for the advise. I will share this with chad tomorrow.

This is the chad I am referencing (http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/display_types-rear_projection.htm)


Not sure what diplay you have but when I had my Mits 73" CRT-RP ISF calibrated in Feb it made a huge difference. Be sure he looks at you display with all your inputs such as cable/sat, DVD, PS3 or what have you. The guy that did my cal made some tweeks based upon my inputs.

[Zivman]

Not sure what diplay you have but when I had my Mits 73" CRT-RP ISF calibrated in Feb it made a huge difference. Be sure he looks at you display with all your inputs such as cable/sat, DVD, PS3 or what have you. The guy that did my cal made some tweeks based upon my inputs.


I have had calibrations done before, but this one will be the most in depth and thorough.

I am running a pioneer pro-151fd pdp

[Zivman]

OK boys and girls.... calibration is done. Chad spent a measily 11 hrs at my house yesterday getting things dialed in ;) .... full audio calibration on my ultra2 HSU setup, ISF calibrations on my pioneer pro-151fd and sony KDS-60A2000 SXRD.


The audio is 10 fold better. we experimented with a few things on the speakers. We tried plugging the ports on the HB-1s (which turned out not to be the trick we were hoping for), raised the rears up about 1' over ear level, and flipped the rears upside down. Overall, I am very happy with the sound of the setup. The subs sound perfect. Chad was very impressed with them; commenting that the subs were stilling gaining even down to 10 Hz. The integration of the speakers and subs worked out well. The sound went from a somewhat hollow, cold sound, to a much fuller, warmer/inviting sound.

[kmitchell]

raised the rears up about 1' over ear level, and flipped the rears upside down.

Hi Zivman,

Can you explain a little more about what you did with the rears? You flipped them upside down and the horns are about 1' above ear level, is that correct?

What was the thinking behind this?

I may give this a try this weekend.

Thanks,
Ken

[Pete_Hsu]

OK boys and girls.... calibration is done. Chad spent a measily 11 hrs at my house yesterday getting things dialed in ;) .... full audio calibration on my ultra2 HSU setup, ISF calibrations on my pioneer pro-151fd and sony KDS-60A2000 SXRD.


The audio is 10 fold better. we experimented with a few things on the speakers. We tried plugging the ports on the HB-1s (which turned out not to be the trick we were hoping for), raised the rears up about 1' over ear level, and flipped the rears upside down. Overall, I am very happy with the sound of the setup. The subs sound perfect. Chad was very impressed with them; commenting that the subs were stilling gaining even down to 10 Hz. The integration of the speakers and subs worked out well. The sound went from a somewhat hollow, cold sound, to a much fuller, warmer/inviting sound.

Awesome, so great to hear that!!!

Was there anything special that you guys did with the front speakers to improve sound quality so much?

Hopefully you will get a good chance this weekend to enjoy the fruits of your labor :)

Thanks

Sincerely,

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi Zivman,

Can you explain a little more about what you did with the rears? You flipped them upside down and the horns are about 1' above ear level, is that correct?

What was the thinking behind this?

I may give this a try this weekend.

Thanks,
Ken

Ken, this makes some sense to me. When the horn bookshelf is in it's normal orientation (with tweeter on top and woofer on bottom), it sounds best when the ear level is at or above the tweeter (as opposed to having the ear level closer to the woofer). So when the horn bookshelf is positioned significantly above ear level, then it will sound better with the tweeter closest to the ear level, with ear level being at or below the tweeter (as opposed to having the ear level closer to the woofer), and therefore one would be better off rotating the bookshelf speaker (with woofer on top and tweeter on bottom).

[Zivman]

Awesome, so great to hear that!!!

Was there anything special that you guys did with the front speakers to improve sound quality so much?

Hopefully you will get a good chance this weekend to enjoy the fruits of your labor :)

Thanks

Sincerely,

We really didn't do much to the fronts. From what I remember talking with Chad; there was a dip at 4kHz that he was having trouble getting rid of. Flipping the rears upside down helped smooth out the dip. Other notable tweeks he made was setting the crossover at 50 Hz and flipping the phase to 180 on the subs. He noted that the HB-1's had plenty of mid bass. ~ 6 hrs was spent solely on the audio equipment/speaker calibration.


He finished up with the Pioneer PDP and audio calibration around 9:30 pm and then moved up to my family room to calibrate my Sony TV allowing me to watch "The Dark Knight" in my freshly calibrated setup. It isn't cheap getting a full calibration like this, but considering the money I had into the equipment, it would be sad not to have them performing to their full potential

[Pete_Hsu]

Interesting, thanks for the feedback Zivman! It's hard to argue with a 10x performance improvement after pro calibration :D

Did you end up setting the ULF trim control on the subwoofers to 16Hz?

Thanks

[Zivman]

Interesting, thanks for the feedback Zivman! It's hard to argue with a 10x performance improvement after pro calibration :D

Did you end up setting the ULF trim control on the subwoofers to 16Hz?

Thanks

yes, the ULF trim is set to 16Hz

[Pete_Hsu]

Good, good! Dr. Hsu had told me earlier that 16Hz would probably be the preferred setting in your space. :)

[kmitchell]

Ken, this makes some sense to me. When the horn bookshelf is in it's normal orientation (with tweeter on top and woofer on bottom), it sounds best when the ear level is at or above the tweeter (as opposed to having the ear level closer to the woofer). So when the horn bookshelf is positioned significantly above ear level, then it will sound better with the tweeter closest to the ear level, with ear level being at or below the tweeter (as opposed to having the ear level closer to the woofer), and therefore one would be better off rotating the bookshelf speaker (with woofer on top and tweeter on bottom).

Thanks, Pete. That makes sense. I have the center of the horn about 20" above ear height right now with the speakers upright. What would be the recommended height for the horns with the speakers upside-down?

Also, I have the speakers attached to the stands with "sticky" pads that came with the stands. Do you think I'll damage the paint (satin black) when I try to remove them?

If this works out well is it possible to flip the HSU logo on the grills?

Thanks,
Ken

[Pete_Hsu]

Hey Ken,

No recommended height in particular, maybe with tweeter just a little bit above ear level.

Good question about removing the speaker from the sticky pads. We recently removed some speakers from stands where we used lots of strong double-sided tape, and it was extremely difficult to remove. We had to use a knife, and ended up scuffing up the bottom of the speakers a bit, and never fully removed all the double-sided tape either. So I'm not sure how strong your sticky pads are, but definitely remove the pads as carefully as possible.

You can remove the logo from the grille, but will have to use some contact cement to reattach the logo onto the grille.

Sincerely,

[kmitchell]

Hi Pete,

I flipped the rear speakers over and all I can say is WOW! (Zivman, I'm sending Chad B a Christmas card). I don't think I've done any other one thing to my setup that's made that big of a difference. Flipping the speakers over and dropping the stands a few inches made a huge difference in the detail of the surround sound.

As far as removing the speakers and "sticky" pads I was given two suggestions and I tried each out on one speaker. The first was to cover a thin putty knife with gaffer's tape (cloth tape) and gently force it between the speaker and stand. Instead of prying them apart I was told to push the putty knife through the sticky pad which worked pretty well. I'll get to cleaning off the residue in a minute. The second suggestion was to use a piece of dental floss slipped between the speaker and stand and gently pull it back and forth in a sawing motion to "slice" the sticky pads apart. This worked much better than the putty knife as it was very controllable.

For cleaning the residue off the speakers and stands I used a product called "Goo Gone" which is a citrus based cleaner. I put a couple of drops on each sticky spot, rubbed it in a little, and then let it sit for about 15 minutes to give it time to penetrate. I then removed some of the residue with my fingernail, gently scraping it loose, and then repeated the process a couple of times. All told it took me about two hours to remove all of the residue but I'm happy to say there's no damage to the speakers nor the stands. The stands are powder-coated so I wasn't expecting any problem with those.

I'd highly recommend this configuration to anyone using HB-1s as surrounds but I'd also recommend you try it BEFORE you adhere the speakers to the stands.

Ken

[Zivman]

Hi Pete,

I flipped the rear speakers over and all I can say is WOW! (Zivman, I'm sending Chad B a Christmas card). I don't think I've done any other one thing to my setup that's made that big of a difference. Flipping the speakers over and dropping the stands a few inches made a huge difference in the detail of the surround sound.

As far as removing the speakers and "sticky" pads I was given two suggestions and I tried each out on one speaker. The first was to cover a thin putty knife with gaffer's tape (cloth tape) and gently force it between the speaker and stand. Instead of prying them apart I was told to push the putty knife through the sticky pad which worked pretty well. I'll get to cleaning off the residue in a minute. The second suggestion was to use a piece of dental floss slipped between the speaker and stand and gently pull it back and forth in a sawing motion to "slice" the sticky pads apart. This worked much better than the putty knife as it was very controllable.

For cleaning the residue off the speakers and stands I used a product called "Goo Gone" which is a citrus based cleaner. I put a couple of drops on each sticky spot, rubbed it in a little, and then let it sit for about 15 minutes to give it time to penetrate. I then removed some of the residue with my fingernail, gently scraping it loose, and then repeated the process a couple of times. All told it took me about two hours to remove all of the residue but I'm happy to say there's no damage to the speakers nor the stands. The stands are powder-coated so I wasn't expecting any problem with those.

I'd highly recommend this configuration to anyone using HB-1s as surrounds but I'd also recommend you try it BEFORE you adhere the speakers to the stands.

Ken

Good to hear it benefited your setup. I merely used rubber pads on the stand base itself to hold the speaker on with friction. I had no issues with removing any sticker pads.

You can easily pull the 'HSU' logo off the grills and replacement without regluing. They should remain sticky enough to allow you to replace them

[kmitchell]

Hi Zivman,

Here in "Earthquake Country" we have to use something a bit stronger than friction to make sure the speakers stay on the stands.

A funny thing about the logo. When I flipped the speakers over and the logo was upside-down my 11-year-old came over and said "Dad, you know you can take those off and stick them back on?" When I asked how HE knew that he got very quiet.

Ken

[Pete_Hsu]

A funny thing about the logo. When I flipped the speakers over and the logo was upside-down my 11-year-old came over and said "Dad, you know you can take those off and stick them back on?" When I asked how HE knew that he got very quiet.

Ken

LOL :D

Good to hear that rotating the rear speakers 180 degrees really helped out! It makes sense given the observations we have with the front speakers, but in an upside-down way :)