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-   -   Help with placement (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=95335)

mystik610 April 6th, 2012 6:13 AM

Help with placement
 


Building out a house with a dedicated home theater. The room is significantly smaller and more enclosed than my current living-room (thank god, from a subwoofer standpoint). At any rate, I need help determining the best place to place (and wire) my VTF-3 MKIII.

Thanks!

Dr_Hsu April 6th, 2012 6:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610 (Post 133268)


Building out a house with a dedicated home theater. The room is significantly smaller and more enclosed than my current living-room (thank god, from a subwoofer standpoint). At any rate, I need help determining the best place to place (and wire) my VTF-3 MKIII.

Thanks!

Front to back is 13' 8"? How large a space does the double door open into? I would place the VTF-3 MK3 in the front right corner. Set it to max output mode.

mystik610 April 6th, 2012 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu (Post 133269)
Front to back is 13' 8"? How large a space does the double door open into? I would place the VTF-3 MK3 in the front right corner. Set it to max output mode.

Thanks Dr. Hsu. The adjacent room is a game-room that's 16x18.

I'm debating adding a second VT3 or an MBM-12. Which do you think would be a better fit? Probably going to add Paradigm studio 20 bookshelves for the fronts soon.

Dr_Hsu April 6th, 2012 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610 (Post 133272)
Thanks Dr. Hsu. The adjacent room is a game-room that's 16x18.

I'm debating adding a second VT3 or an MBM-12. Which do you think would be a better fit? Probably going to add Paradigm studio 20 bookshelves for the fronts soon.

Are you looking for more mid bass punch, or for more deep bass shake?

Keeping the door to the game room open will give you much stronger 16 Hz (standing wave for the 30+ ft width through the doorway).

mystik610 April 9th, 2012 8:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu (Post 133273)
Are you looking for more mid bass punch, or for more deep bass shake?

Keeping the door to the game room open will give you much stronger 16 Hz (standing wave for the 30+ ft width through the doorway).

Thanks.

Both :D . Will the VTF-3 sufficiently cover the low-end rumble by itself, or should I add a second? My thought that adding as second would be primarily for a more even frequency response throughout the room.

Dr_Hsu April 9th, 2012 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610 (Post 133291)
Thanks.

Both :D . Will the VTF-3 sufficiently cover the low-end rumble by itself, or should I add a second? My thought that adding as second would be primarily for a more even frequency response throughout the room.

If you want increase in both, get a second VTF-3. How critical is having even bass distribution in your room? Usually different family member like bass to different degrees. In fact, quite often the spouse do not want so much bass! Then optimize the bass for your seat, and put the spouse in the seat with less bass... :D

Do the sub crawl, find the best spots to place the subs. If necessary, place both subs in the best location. I would go for the position that gives the highest output especially in the low bass. Then use a equalizer to flatten the bass. That way, you have the lowest distortion and highest headroom.

mystik610 April 10th, 2012 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu (Post 133292)
If you want increase in both, get a second VTF-3. How critical is having even bass distribution in your room? Usually different family member like bass to different degrees. In fact, quite often the spouse do not want so much bass! Then optimize the bass for your seat, and put the spouse in the seat with less bass... :D

Do the sub crawl, find the best spots to place the subs. If necessary, place both subs in the best location. I would go for the position that gives the highest output especially in the low bass. Then use a equalizer to flatten the bass. That way, you have the lowest distortion and highest headroom.

Like anything else in this hobby, its critical to me, and not so much to everyone else, but I'm seriously considering a second..... or perhaps a VTF15.

Dr_Hsu April 10th, 2012 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610 (Post 133300)
Like anything else in this hobby, its critical to me, and not so much to everyone else, but I'm seriously considering a second..... or perhaps a VTF15.

Exactly. So, do the subwoofer crawl, find the best location for placing the sub, and stack double VTF-3s there, or a 15H there.

Do you have REW? If you do, put the VTF-3 at your listening chair, woofer at ear level. Then place the mic at the various locations where you can put subwoofers and measure the response at all the locations. Make sure the test tone level is the same level for all the measurements. Post all the responses and I will give you my recommendation.

mystik610 April 10th, 2012 8:04 AM

House has just started being built so it will be a couple of months before I can do some measurements (unless I drag my sub into the model home one day lol)

Dr_Hsu April 10th, 2012 8:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610 (Post 133304)
House has just started being built so it will be a couple of months before I can do some measurements (unless I drag my sub into the model home one day lol)

Well, congrats on your new house! Yes! Bring your sub to the model home! Maybe they will help us sell more subs... :p :D JK.

razzy April 13th, 2012 5:34 AM

haha that makes two of us!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610 (Post 133272)
Thanks Dr. Hsu. The adjacent room is a game-room that's 16x18.

I'm debating adding a second VT3 or an MBM-12. Which do you think would be a better fit? Probably going to add Paradigm studio 20 bookshelves for the fronts soon.

Hey man we were both in the same boat...i ended up just adding a second VTF3.3 to my setup and after first evaluation i don't notice much improvement...i placed the 2nd sub on the other end of my couch so now there's subs on both sides and this placement is not worth it right now- gotta find out the best spot.

the 1st sub in the optimal place in the corner is putting out sooo much more bass than the 2nd sub where it's located to my left

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu (Post 133292)
If you want increase in both, get a second VTF-3. How critical is having even bass distribution in your room? Usually different family member like bass to different degrees. In fact, quite often the spouse do not want so much bass! Then optimize the bass for your seat, and put the spouse in the seat with less bass... :D

Do the sub crawl, find the best spots to place the subs. If necessary, place both subs in the best location. I would go for the position that gives the highest output especially in the low bass. Then use a equalizer to flatten the bass. That way, you have the lowest distortion and highest headroom.

dr. hsu, even bass distribution and the elimination of localization are what i was going for along with overall additional bass output when i bought the second sub but, i really didn't want to stack my subs b/c i wanted to eliminate the localization issue but like i told mystik in my post above i'm not getting much with the 2nd sub placed opposite the first one (sub 1 on my right in the corner (best sound/placement) and sub 2 on my left next to the couch w/ no corner)

I've emailed poh and he asked for a room drawing/diagram. i'm going to get on that ASAP. my room is big and VERY non bass friendly - I was very distressed when after i got the first sub i wasn't blown away w/ the earth shattering bass that i've heard others speak of getting - I know my room is a bass eating monster. so, i had to go and grab a second vtf3.3 to try and grant me some additional output. now i just have to figure out what will get me the most output. :confused:

Dr_Hsu April 13th, 2012 8:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razzy (Post 133321)
Hey man we were both in the same boat...i ended up just adding a second VTF3.3 to my setup and after first evaluation i don't notice much improvement...i placed the 2nd sub on the other end of my couch so now there's subs on both sides and this placement is not worth it right now- gotta find out the best spot.

the 1st sub in the optimal place in the corner is putting out sooo much more bass than the 2nd sub where it's located to my left



dr. hsu, even bass distribution and the elimination of localization are what i was going for along with overall additional bass output when i bought the second sub but, i really didn't want to stack my subs b/c i wanted to eliminate the localization issue but like i told mystik in my post above i'm not getting much with the 2nd sub placed opposite the first one (sub 1 on my right in the corner (best sound/placement) and sub 2 on my left next to the couch w/ no corner)

I've emailed poh and he asked for a room drawing/diagram. i'm going to get on that ASAP. my room is big and VERY non bass friendly - I was very distressed when after i got the first sub i wasn't blown away w/ the earth shattering bass that i've heard others speak of getting - I know my room is a bass eating monster. so, i had to go and grab a second vtf3.3 to try and grant me some additional output. now i just have to figure out what will get me the most output. :confused:

Unfortunately, you cannot have your cake and eat it too - you either get more even bass distribution, or higher bass output when you add subwoofers. You cannot get both at the same time (unless you are truly lucky with your room layout).

When you use multiple subs to even the bass out, what you are doing is to have the subs acoustically cancel the peaks, and hopefully reinforce the dips. When you acoustically cancel the peaks, you are having the subs fight each other - feeding more power into the subs to REDUCE output! Definitely not an efficient thing to do, and not a cost effective thing to do. Things are much better if you don't need even bass distribution.

Go ahead and email me the room layout (poh=Dr. Hsu, aka Kungfu Panda! :D ) and let us see what we can do to make the subs less localizable and give you higher output but not more even bass distribution (if I am reading you right, given the choices, I think you would prefer one great seat as opposed to no good seats but mediocre seats all around).

razzy April 13th, 2012 8:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu (Post 133322)
Unfortunately, you cannot have your cake and eat it too - you either get more even bass distribution, or higher bass output when you add subwoofers. You cannot get both at the same time (unless you are truly lucky with your room layout).

When you use multiple subs to even the bass out, what you are doing is to have the subs acoustically cancel the peaks, and hopefully reinforce the dips. When you acoustically cancel the peaks, you are having the subs fight each other - feeding more power into the subs to REDUCE output! Definitely not an efficient thing to do, and not a cost effective thing to do. Things are much better if you don't need even bass distribution.

Go ahead and email me the room layout (poh=Dr. Hsu, aka Kungfu Panda! :D ) and let us see what we can do to make the subs less localizable and give you higher output but not more even bass distribution (if I am reading you right, given the choices, I think you would prefer one great seat as opposed to no good seats but mediocre seats all around).

ohh haha i had no idea it was you - sorry about that! :o
and yes you are definitely reading me right - one amazing seat is all i'm going for here! :D
thank you so much - i'll get that to you ASAP!

Justin


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