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-   -   correct settings/ANEMIC performance (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=95812)

fxe02 February 22nd, 2014 12:21 PM

correct settings/ANEMIC performance
 
I just had an audio consultant set up my vtf-15 and martin logan speakers .he used audessey,then a test tone sweep,with an spl meter.Then he tweaked the distances with his ears. the system sounds very accurate ,musical ,and nice to listen too.settings-eq-1,one port,phase 0,vol-9 oclock,q-5.5.
However,video's are lacking the dynamic punch that I am use too .there is a lack of sub woofer feeling.my consultant recommended a jl-113.
any suggestions would be appreciated.my loyalty is with HSU!

shadyJ February 22nd, 2014 4:44 PM

He tweaked the distances with his ears!? That sounds strange. Why wouldn't he have let Audyssey do that? Anyway, if he was doing his job then he set the sub to play evenly with the speakers and with as flat as an FR as possible. You might be used to hotter bass which is why your system might sound dull at the moment. I would turn the subwoofer channel up in the AVR when its movie time to get the sound you want. His recommend of a JL Audio F113 is ridiculous. If all he did is run Audyssey and check its response, I really hope you didn't pay him a lot of money. That is something you can do yourself along with a $30 SPL meter just as easily.

fxe02 February 22nd, 2014 6:13 PM

SHADYJ, thanks for your input.it was a free set up,as I bought the martin logan's from him.i will boast the volume and try a video.

SME February 22nd, 2014 10:16 PM

As strange as it sounds, I actually adjust my distances by ear after running Audyssey. Audyssey gets the distances pretty close, but I still get a big sound quality improvement by doing my by-ear post-calibration tweaks. The key thing is that I have special pink noise samples that I use that play correlated noise in adjacent channels. I then adjust the distances until each adjacent pair of speakers (plus the front left and right as a pair) images the noise convincingly dead center between them. When I do this, I change the units used in my distance menu from "ft" to "m" because I get about 3 times the granularity (0.01 m vs 0.1 ft) with units in meters.

The pink noise samples aren't suitable for setting sub distance, and I don't think one can get the best results setting the sub distance by ear. Not only that, but sub distance makes a big difference for good bass. On the other hand, this setting doesn't need to be as precise as for the speakers. Differences of 0.5 feet don't change much. Something you can try doing is temporarily adding or subtracting about 7 feet (assuming you crossover at 80 Hz) to the current setting to see if that improves things. If it does, then it probably wasn't set right to begin with. The best way to set this right involves taking measurements with an SPL meter and test tones or, preferably, a room measurement system.

Another possible reason for poor bass is placement related. Can you post a picture of your room including adjoining areas, where you sit, and where the sub is?

fxe02 February 23rd, 2014 12:00 PM

correct settings/anemic performance
 
1 Attachment(s)
thanks .here's a diagramAttachment 1778 sme- let me know if you can decode my diagram.appreciate your willingness to help.

fxe02 February 24th, 2014 12:56 AM

I adjusted the sub output from -8 to -4 on the avr.i popped in enders game and the whole house came alive.the vtf-15 rocked the house.thanks so much for the advice.
my question of the day - would a sub-such as the jl-113 not have to be adjusted 4 db for video versus an audio use?
have a great day!

shadyJ February 24th, 2014 9:04 AM

The JL Audio wouldn't act any different, it would run the same as the VTF15h under those settings. He was just trying to sell you an expensive subwoofer.

fxe02 February 24th, 2014 11:25 AM

feel stupid !!!!!!

SME February 24th, 2014 9:51 PM

I'm having a hard time making sense of your picture because the resolution is too low. Can you maybe upload a higher resolution copy?

Ender's Game is rumored to be a heavy bass film. It ought to have shaken the house pretty good even without adjusting the sub level up, not that there's anything wrong with doing so. :)

What's your question about adjusting for movies vs. music? Normally, you shouldn't have to make any adjustments, but you may prefer more bass for movies. Do you listen to music, and does the bass sound good there too?

fxe02 February 25th, 2014 11:00 AM

i tried resizing diagram. tx
i was wondering if people generally used different sttings for music vs video?
can't downsize picture.will work on

OU812 February 25th, 2014 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadyJ (Post 135628)
The JL Audio wouldn't act any different, it would run the same as the VTF15h under those settings. He was just trying to sell you an expensive subwoofer.


Exactly...

SME February 25th, 2014 11:17 PM

Some people do prefer to hear more or less bass than usual with movies versus music. Whereas, Audyssey theoretically sets the sub level and response to the calibrated level used in the studios. Note my use of the word "theoretical". Audyssey can in fact work very well, but there are limitations. If you run into any of these limitations, then you may get gaps in the bass response and will more likely hear less bass than more bass when running at "calibrated" level. Increasing the sub level may be helpful, but doesn't really correct the imbalance.

Interestingly, I think music tends to have more mid bass while movies have more deep bass. This is far from true in general, as plenty of music goes down lower, and mid bass provides a lot of the sense of impact in movies. Nevertheless, I suspect that if the mid bass is weak, then one might be more inclined to boost the bass when listening to music. If in your case, it's the deep bass output that is weak, then you want the bass turned up for movies. If that's the case, then you may be able to get much better bass with a different sub placement.

I don't think your resized image came through. Do you want to try again? What I can see from what you posted is that your house is an open floor plan. If your sub is not sitting at an outer wall, then you might not be getting the best deep bass that you can.

fxe02 February 26th, 2014 9:54 AM

1 Attachment(s)
here's another attempt at an attachment

SME February 27th, 2014 11:03 AM

That picture is much better! Do you have the option of putting the sub in the corner next to the right rear surround?

fxe02 March 1st, 2014 1:48 PM

yes.its wireless.what way should the woofer face?
ps-by right you mean moving it back 12 feet?the other side is the front door.
thanks

SME March 1st, 2014 9:58 PM

What I mean, if I understand the picture right, is the corner on the other side of the front door where there's the plant ledge? Is the plant ledge in the way?

fxe02 March 2nd, 2014 3:24 AM

will try it. thanks

fxe02 March 4th, 2014 2:33 PM

SME & SHADY THAnkS FOR HELPING.moving the sub made a big difference.Accurate and detailed bass, along with the SLAM factor.
i feel bad , i lost my confidence in HSU.(this is my 3rd hsu sub)
I AM super pleased with the sound.
any one out there with emotiva experience.i am on the list for there new preamp.also considering there power amps.currently using a denon avr x-2000.
any thoughts?
again thanks for all who helped !

SME March 4th, 2014 7:11 PM

I'm glad you have things sounding good now! Did your consultant choose the sub location? I'm not sure any sub would perform very well where it was before.

I own an Emotiva XPA-5 200W/channel amp and am very satisfied with its performance. I can't speak for their pre-amp offerings, however, as I haven't used any them. I would be a bit more skeptical about them as I have seen a fair number of problem reports with some models. Also, the Emotiva pre-amps don't feature Audyssey room correction. If you're curious, you can try running your current system with Audyssey turned off to hear what you'd be missing.

The Emotiva UMC-200 has an auto-setup program that configures Parametric EQ (PEQ) settings based on measurements. While PEQ can address some room issues, it's not as powerful as Audyssey's time domain correction is, and it works better with manual measurement and configuration.

Emotiva will soon be shipping their XMC-1, which comes with Dirac room correction. Dirac does employ time-domain corrections and compete with if not exceed Audyssey, but that remains to be seen. If you choose to go this route, I suggest waiting for a few months to see what kind of problems people run into before committing to it.

If you're in a rush to add an external amp but don't want to give up Audyssey, another option is to look for a higher end Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, or Integra (there may be others too) that offers full 7.1 (or more) pre-amp outs in addition to Audyssey. I bought the Denon 3313CI specifically for this specific reason.

fxe02 March 5th, 2014 9:39 AM

many thanks.i think i am going to get the emotiva 5 channel and the 2 channel for the mains.my denon x2000 was a big mistake.no preamp out.
the preamp-not sure where to go.am on their list ,but, am fearful of first round units to hit the market.
will try the system without audessey.never thought to see what its doing.
have a great day.

SME March 5th, 2014 10:42 PM

I'm glad you are enjoying your new sub! Best of luck with your new equipment choices.

fxe02 March 8th, 2014 8:58 AM

SME- did you give the outlaw amp a try?its 7 channels and cheaper the a 5 and 2 channel from emotiva.however,cheaper may not be better.
any thoughts??????????????????

SME March 9th, 2014 9:55 PM

I have no idea out Outlaw amps. It couldn't hurt to compare the specs, such as power into 4 vs 8 ohms. You didn't say what kind of speakers you have, but I know some Martin Logans are notorious for having low impedance.


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