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  #1  
Old August 27th, 2019, 6:16 AM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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Does my room shape lend itself to a singel or duals?

Hi all,


First time poster looking for advice on how much I should take room acoustics into account when deciding between a single HSU VTF-3 HP or dual VTF-2 MK5's (but will likely start off with one).


I know the room is a major factor, but am curious as to whether my room is a "good" or "bad" factor, meaning would getting 2 to start with save me time and hassle because my room is so "wonky", or do all the slants, nooks/cranny's, etc. in my room mitigate standing waves and lend itself better to a single to where I likely wouldn't need duals to have reasonably solid bass coverage.



Room Details
  • Combination man room, office and home theater - carpeted with drywall
  • Location: bonus room over 2-car garage (single-family home)
  • Dimensions: roughly 22 ft (the wall w/TV on it) x 14.5ft (the wall w/window) x 8 ft ceiling with 5 ft knee walls. Please refer to the attached pictures showing 2D and 3D versions of my current setup (note that the room measurements are accurate, but the rest is 'close enough')
  • Seems to calculate to roughly 2,500-2,600 ft3
  • Assume easily 90% movies
Current Equipment
  • Onkyo TX-NR686
  • L&R: ,DefTech BP10
  • Center: DefTech CLR1000
  • Rear surrounds: DefTech ProMonitor1000
Situation
  • I have probably read every thread on the single vs. dual theory, and I like the idea of duals to mitigate any peaks/nulls, but would like to start with a single sub to make sure I don't fall down the rabbit hole too quickly and buy more than I truly need.
  • The shape of my room is so odd, I am wondering if it would actually less, or more, likely to produce standing waves, again, meaning should I go straight for duals because my room either doesn't have a good spot for a single, or because the room acoustics essentially dictate the need for duals
Question
  • Stipulating that I will work on experimenting and tweaking placement, does my room "lean" toward needing duals, or is it reasonable to assume that the dimensions, slants, etc. increase the potential for one sub to work?
  • If duals are highly likely:
    • I plan on starting with the VTF-2 as I like them up front and would be more than adequate in my room
  • If a single works:
    • I will go with a VTF-3 as I think two VTF-3s would be overkill (for my wife, since she already tells me to turn down some movies with just my BP10's). I suppose I *could* add another VTF-3 later, but would really prefer to make the right call now and then just enjoy my system.
Thanks so much, in advance. I know these questions get asked a lot (I've read all the threads) but hopefully this question has not been asked in quite this way before. I appreciate the hive knowledge here and look forward to the ensuing discussion.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old August 27th, 2019, 11:04 AM
Kevin_Hsu Kevin_Hsu is offline
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Hi there!

Thanks for your interest in our VTF-2 Mk5 and VTF-3 Mk5 HP subs! I think the word lend is a good way to put it as room acoustics can vary quite a bit even with the same dimensions and placement. It's very much a YMMV thing. Given where you're seated in that room, I believe you may very well be able to go with a single sub for that room. The benefit is that you are seated up against the back wall, so that tends to give you a good amount of boundary gain at your listening position and you tend to not get as strong of nulls versus when you're seated out into the middle of the room. For the single sub I would just keep it out in front and maybe try to place it on the inside of the right speaker (between the right speaker and entertainment center) to see if that gives you a better mid-bass punch at your listening position.
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  #3  
Old August 27th, 2019, 12:40 PM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Hsu View Post
Hi there!

Given where you're seated in that room, I believe you may very well be able to go with a single sub for that room. The benefit is that you are seated up against the back wall, so that tends to give you a good amount of boundary gain at your listening position and you tend to not get as strong of nulls versus when you're seated out into the middle of the room. For the single sub I would just keep it out in front and maybe try to place it on the inside of the right speaker (between the right speaker and entertainment center) to see if that gives you a better mid-bass punch at your listening position.

Thanks Kevin!


I wanted to clarify that the MLP is actually the center seat on the sofa, not where the figure is shown in the image, in case you thought that's what was being implied. Does that change your advice? What are your thoughts about putting the single sub in the front left corner, where the guitar amp is located?
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Old August 27th, 2019, 4:31 PM
Kevin_Hsu Kevin_Hsu is offline
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No worries. I figured it was the center of the sofa. The left corner is also worth a try. Try both positions.
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  #5  
Old August 28th, 2019, 10:43 AM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Hsu View Post
No worries. I figured it was the center of the sofa. The left corner is also worth a try. Try both positions.

Thanks Kevin.


So, by only giving placement advice for a single sub, are tacitly confirming that only one sub is needed for this room?
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  #6  
Old August 28th, 2019, 4:58 PM
Kevin_Hsu Kevin_Hsu is offline
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I'd say if you go with a single sub, you can try that placement. I generally like to start off with one anyway to see how the sub works within the room before considering going with two. I'll say that in many rooms with that similar setup and orientation, I usually see one sub being able to work quite well, but each room is different.
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  #7  
Old August 29th, 2019, 11:22 AM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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Thanks Kevin.


For rooms like mine, then, would the VTF-2 be a good single sub to start with? I have a working assumption that either a single VTF-3 or dual VTF-2's would be the ending solution, given the ft3. I don't think I'll be able to overcome the WAF, or budget (<$1K US) for that matter, for 2 VTF-3's.
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Old August 29th, 2019, 4:38 PM
Kevin_Hsu Kevin_Hsu is offline
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It really depends on your preferences. If you listen to moderate levels, I would say one VTF-2 Mk5 is a good start.
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Old September 6th, 2019, 9:07 AM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Hsu View Post
It really depends on your preferences. If you listen to moderate levels, I would say one VTF-2 Mk5 is a good start.

Hi Kevin, yes, I listen at moderate volumes (not reference level) but would like the deepest base and flattest line possible (don't we all?).


That being said, I'd like to pull the trigger soon and wanted to ask one more question as I really have put myself into analysis paralysis on this since I read that "you should buy the biggest/best sub you can" while also reading that duals are the way to go. I apologize for beating a dead horse...



My budget effectively allows for 1 VTF-3 Mk5 or 2 VTF-2 Mk5's, so if I were to go with one, it would be a VTF-3 Mk5, but wouldn't want to end up needing duals, because I can't afford 2 of them and it's really not cost-effective to return one VTF-3 for 2 VTF-2's once all shipping is paid.


I know I'm over-thinking this, but I'm trying to approach this from a "buy once, cry once" perspective because whatever I choose, I will likely be "stuck" with, as explained above. Which option is most likely to yield optimal results?


Thanks in advance.
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  #10  
Old September 6th, 2019, 4:34 PM
Kevin_Hsu Kevin_Hsu is offline
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My personal opinion, and Dr. Hsu agrees, is that generally a single VTF-3 Mk5 HP should work quite well in that room since you are up against the back wall. However, if you're really trying to make sure you have options to smooth out the response at your listening position if need be, then two VTF-2 Mk5's would be the safest bet if you're trying to go with the buy once sort of deal.
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  #11  
Old September 7th, 2019, 8:10 AM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Hsu View Post
My personal opinion, and Dr. Hsu agrees, is that generally a single VTF-3 Mk5 HP should work quite well in that room since you are up against the back walll.

Well, I hope so...I just placed an order for one to take advantage of the Labor Day sale! Very excited! Thanks for the assistance!! I'm hoping it gets here before next weekend so I can set it up before I have to leave town on Sunday as this thing weighs almost as much as my wife!



One more thing, since this is my first sub, so do you have any recommendations on a good RCA sub cable (brand or gauge)? Also, what about and decoupling base/feet in case they're needed?


Thanks again!
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  #12  
Old September 9th, 2019, 5:10 PM
Kevin_Hsu Kevin_Hsu is offline
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As long as the RCA cable is shielded, it should work well. Many of the people that use our subs use Monoprice/Mediabridge/etc cables and they work quite well. You don't need to go out and get anything expensive. Decoupling feet is probably not needed in many cases, and if it is, you can probably get a throw rug/yoga mat to accomplish the same thing. You can always temporarily place the sub on top of the foam tray that is included with the sub to see if it makes a difference.
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  #13  
Old September 18th, 2019, 1:04 PM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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My VTF-3 Mk5 arrived today! While the box was not 'violated', it does look like it got smacked around pretty good.

Anyway, I've got it in the front left corner pointed at the MLP and I am getting ready to start setting it up, but I had a couple of questions:

First, though, I'm using the Onkyo AccuEQ on my TX-NR686 (no standalone SPL meter or UMIK...yet) and setting the crossover at 80Hz

1. I read somewhere that in a room like mine, that can fully closed off, I am better off started with a lower Q, like.5 or even .3 to prevent my AVR from dialing it back too far. Is there any logic to this, or should I stick with the instructions it came with?

2. Since the only way to know what is "best" (for me) is to try all potential combinations of the different settings, is there a recommended order to progress through the various Q, phase, EQ and volume options, other than just changing one thing at a time to restrain changes to one variable? Are there some that I shouldn't even mess with?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but for now, I'm just excited to hear it! I've never had a sub before (my DefTech BP-10's are as close as I've had).
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  #14  
Old September 19th, 2019, 9:52 AM
Kevin_Hsu Kevin_Hsu is offline
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I would just stick with Q0.7. The way I go about it is adjust the Q first, EQ switch second, then port settings third. What you can do is play the 80 Hz test tone and switch between 0 and 180. Whichever one gives you the loudest level at 80 Hz should be the one you use. Though technically, Onkyo's system should account for that anyway with the distance correction.
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  #15  
Old September 19th, 2019, 1:37 PM
DS3 DS3 is offline
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Thanks Kevin!

I had send you PM as well, about a few things I found when running the various tones on the CD. Well, I ended up calling on my lunchbreak and spoke to Dr. Hsu. He was both patient and helpful. I plan on trying what he recommended, but would still like to hear from you as well.

Thanks!!
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