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  #1  
Old January 31st, 2015, 12:39 PM
ironbadge ironbadge is offline
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MBM-12 MK2 and VTF-2 MK4 setup

Hello everyone,

I got the VTF-2 MK4 and the MBM-12 Mk2 couple days ago. I have the Yamaha RX-A1030 that has 2 subwoofer outs.
The MBM-12 MK2 manual indicates that the sub and the MBM can connect to the receiver using a Y adapter. The VTF-2 MK 4 crossover switch should be "IN" and its crossover should be set at 50 Hz. How does the MBM-12 "knows" it only has to take care of the 50 - 80 Hz range? Is it because the MBM-12 MK2 is designed to reproduce the sound only from 50 Hz up as the specs show?

Thanks!
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Music: PS-LX300USB, DVD-S1800BL, RX-A1030, Sony Blu-ray, Pioneer LD, PS3, NHT Absolute Towers, NHT Absolute Zeroes, Pinnacle center & surrounds, VTF-2 MK4, MBM-12 MK2, Samsung 36xx
HT: Sony BDPS5200, AVR-790, Infinity Primus 363s, Energy Take center & surrounds, Klipsch SW-350, Pinnacle Subcompact8, LG BL5900
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  #2  
Old January 31st, 2015, 11:21 PM
SME SME is offline
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The "crossover" feature on the MBM is always on and set at 50 Hz. There is no need to switch it on.
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  #3  
Old February 1st, 2015, 5:47 AM
ironbadge ironbadge is offline
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Originally Posted by SME View Post
The "crossover" feature on the MBM is always on and set at 50 Hz. There is no need to switch it on.
I have not unpacked the unit but from what I saw in its picture and manual, the crossover switch is either "IN" or "OUT." As I understand, "IN" means "engaged" and "OUT" means disengaged, right?
The MBM-12 MK2 can only play down to 50 Hz so if we set the crossover at 50 Hz then it will play nothing, correct? I believe we need to set the crossover at or a little overlapping the low limit of the main speakers (e.g. 80 Hz), right?
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Music: PS-LX300USB, DVD-S1800BL, RX-A1030, Sony Blu-ray, Pioneer LD, PS3, NHT Absolute Towers, NHT Absolute Zeroes, Pinnacle center & surrounds, VTF-2 MK4, MBM-12 MK2, Samsung 36xx
HT: Sony BDPS5200, AVR-790, Infinity Primus 363s, Energy Take center & surrounds, Klipsch SW-350, Pinnacle Subcompact8, LG BL5900
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  #4  
Old February 1st, 2015, 9:03 PM
SME SME is offline
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Sorry for my confusing response. The "crossover" setting on the MBM is a low pass filter for integrating it with your mains if you don't have a receiver or processor with bass management. You should not need this with your AVR because it has bass management. Make certain that "crossover" is set to "out" on the MBM and use the bass management features of your AVR to set an appropriate crossover for your mains (typically 80 Hz).

The MBM also has a built-in high pass filter at 50 Hz that is always enabled. This filter is designed to be used with a low pass filter on the true sub. You'll likely want to set the "crossover" (i.e. low pass filter) on the VTF2 to "in" and adjust the frequency to 50 Hz.

I suggest using a single sub output and a Y-adapter to connect the subs. The reason is that I don't know how the AVR manages the two outputs. Its auto-setup may be confused by the subs that cover different frequency ranges. I really don't know. That said, it's worthwhile to do some research on your AVR. If the sub is a lot closer or farther from the main listening position than the MBM is, then the ability to set different delays (or distances) on each output may be a big help.
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  #5  
Old March 10th, 2015, 8:29 PM
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Chromejob Chromejob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironbadge View Post
Hello everyone,

I got the VTF-2 MK4 and the MBM-12 Mk2 couple days ago. I have the Yamaha RX-A1030 that has 2 subwoofer outs.
The MBM-12 MK2 manual indicates that the sub and the MBM can connect to the receiver using a Y adapter. The VTF-2 MK 4 crossover switch should be "IN" and its crossover should be set at 50 Hz. How does the MBM-12 "knows" it only has to take care of the 50 - 80 Hz range? Is it because the MBM-12 MK2 is designed to reproduce the sound only from 50 Hz up as the specs show?

Thanks!
Sorry for dredging up an "old" thread. Your setup is what I was co1nsidering the past week while shopping for a sub (my first). I have an RX-V775, similar to the A1030.

I would recommend using both sub outs for your modules. Another user on these forums reported a problem with using a Y adapter on a single output. Yes, the MBM manuals tells you to, but I don't see why if you have to dedicated Sub pre-outs.

Background: In my situation, my mains are old Bose 401s, which go down to 30Hz with some peaks and nulls < 100hz or so. I was shopping for a sub or combination that I could use with the AVR (RX-V775) Sub Cross Over (aka Bass Management) set to 120Hz ... letting the mains do less of the muddy bass work and focus on higher freqs. The MBM appealed to me as a way to set the crossover on the AVR as high as 200 ... then set the VTF crossover to 80 (IF the cross over is active on the low input, aka sub LFE line level input, which it appears to be).

I just bought a VTF-2, an eventual setup of ... either a VTF-1 (on sale) and an MDM-12 (on sale) as a pair. Or a VTF-1 or VTF-2 now, and the other later. ... Kevin (Hsu sales) discouraged me from mixing a VTF & MBM, as the VTF-2 will probably suffice for what the MBM provides. Also the reasonable tactic of add one now, test and measure, then decide later what's lacking.

My impression is that the MBM isn't really meant as a second sub, or a sort-of sub, but a mid-bass module to use with speakers with less low end. You could plug it into a Sub Out (with cross over turned OFF) and set the AVR's bass management (Sub Cross Over) high at 200Hz ... let the MBM handle all that. Set the crossover on the VTF at 60Hz to handle what the MBM doesn't.

Or plug the MBM high level inputs into your AVR, turn AVR's bass management OFF, then plug your mains into the MBM high level outputs, set the MBM crossover at 150Hz. Plug your VTF into the LFE Sub Out 1 on the AVR, use it as a straight .1 subwoofer.

I haven't done any of this in practice, all theory in my head; please, anyone, jump in and correct me.

You could also use the AVR's YPAO measurement to see what the AVR determines.


I'm curious how you have your setup functioning and how pleased you are with it. At any rate, Kevin's strong recommendation was to try out the addition of a VTF and then decide if I wanted more mid-bass support in my listening environment. Chances are, I won't feel anything's missing.

Modest "theater": Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic BDT210, Yamaha RXV775. Bose 401 mains, Bose 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444. Incoming: Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.

Last edited by Chromejob : March 10th, 2015 at 11:27 PM. Reason: clarifying response to, adding sig
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  #6  
Old March 10th, 2015, 11:00 PM
SME SME is offline
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It sounds like you are addressing ironbadge, but I will give you my own view.

Your thinking is quite reasonable, and there are other legitimate uses for them. The main issue with the MBM is that it must be integrated both with the other sub(s) and the mains. This can be somewhat challenging, especially if you hope to achieve the best performance possible. I also suggest starting with a single sub. Take the time to discover your room and how it affects things. A room measurement system can be very helpful if you are inclined to learn how to use it.

I added my MBMs after experimenting with placement options in my current living room. I determined that the mid bass response was a lot better with placements near the sofa, but the deep bass response was poor unless the subs were in the front. The fact that the MBMs were cheaper and a lot more compact than full subs was a good plus. It worked out very well for me, but I consider myself to be pretty advanced.

Right now, my 2 subs and 2 MBMs are running on a MiniDSP 2x4 with independent delay and EQ, which I use acoustic measurements and computer simulations to configure. I also have some bass traps (which for the most part only absorb down to 80 Hz but still make a huge subjective difference), and I'm installing more treatments, one or two at a time, with measurements and subjective evaluation in between.

All the Hsu subwoofers are very capable pieces of equipment whose performance is almost always limited (in terms of sound quality, not quantity) by the characteristics of the room it's placed in. The MBM fills a nice sweet spot where you need mid/upper bass with a lot of headroom in a small, inexpensive package.
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  #7  
Old March 10th, 2015, 11:25 PM
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Yes, I was primarily trying to answer OP's question about the Yamaha AVR, as I'm familiar with those. Your experience and suggestions are spot-on though, thanks!
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  #8  
Old April 5th, 2015, 5:39 AM
ironbadge ironbadge is offline
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I connect the VTF-2 MK4 and the MBM-12 MK2 to both sub outs.
I place the sub in the front left corner and the MBM along the left wall in parallel to my seat. The MBM does provide additional sound. I do not have chances to perform some sub crawling, but I can say the sound is good.
One thing I am not happy with is the humming coming from both devices. I am in contact with HSU to resolve the issue. I also made a post about this issue in this HSU forum.
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Music: PS-LX300USB, DVD-S1800BL, RX-A1030, Sony Blu-ray, Pioneer LD, PS3, NHT Absolute Towers, NHT Absolute Zeroes, Pinnacle center & surrounds, VTF-2 MK4, MBM-12 MK2, Samsung 36xx
HT: Sony BDPS5200, AVR-790, Infinity Primus 363s, Energy Take center & surrounds, Klipsch SW-350, Pinnacle Subcompact8, LG BL5900
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