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  #1  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:13 AM
The_Nephilim The_Nephilim is offline
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HSU Test Cd and Saint Saens sounds like??

Hi All,

I figured I would ask this here and hopefully someone with one of the Bigger Subs like the ULS-15 or maybe even the VTF-3's should suffice..

I was wondering what does the Saint Saens Passage sound like on your Sub, is it like a Flutter or more of a Tone??

I have the disk and it sounds like a Helicopter Flutter but not as loud I was wondering if this is what this song is supposed to sound like..

They said on the insert this is the cleanest recording of the 16hz tone and was wondering if this is what a 16hz tone is supposed to sound like..

I had built a DIY 18" Sub. I was going to buy a ULS-15 but decided on this instead.. Just curious because my First Sub was a VTF-1 and it really never quite worked well with that sub. I should have bought a VTF-3 back then

I was reading a review of this concert and they did state the same 16hz tone sounded as if a Helicopter was overhead in the concert hall during that paasage live.. So from what I can tell the Fluttering is Normal and supposed to sound like this..

If so it is a curious sound..
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  #2  
Old April 9th, 2013, 7:06 AM
jsbeesl jsbeesl is offline
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Unless you have exceptional hearing, which we all work very hard to convince ourselves we have, you cannot hear a 16hz tone. It is in the infrasonic range, so we can feel the pressure and even the vibration if loud enough, but we do not actually hear it. There can be a helicopter-like rhythmic sensation to the pressure you feel, though. If played back loudly enough, I would liken it to having someone trying to shake your soul from your body.
I have dual ULS-15's, btw.

Amusing anecdote: I had a friend over and was demonstrating this piece while I got started on cooking lunch. I set a pot of water on the stove and was surprised to see ripples in the water every time the 16hz note played. It's sort of like the glass of water in Jurassic Park.
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  #3  
Old April 9th, 2013, 11:20 AM
SME SME is offline
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I beg to differ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range (not the best reference)

The gist is that the bottom end of hearing depends on loudness, but producing low notes loud enough to hear is difficult. Sounds as low as 12 Hz have been perceived as distinct pitches. Below that sound can be felt to 1 Hz and below, based on studies done with rotary woofers.
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  #4  
Old April 12th, 2013, 5:43 PM
The_Nephilim The_Nephilim is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Bkrypxzs4



in the above clip I would imagine if one where there it would be more impressive but even in this clip you can hear it??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...8C5F1B45D61A42



In the above clip he states the 1812 Overture Cannon shots are down to 7hz. well with my setup I played the SACD Version and I clearly heard and felt them..

I would imaging what my sub is doing is similar but not exact. I guess I need to look into a Rotary Subwoofer..

EDIT: WOW I just saw the price for a Rotary Sub Arghhh!!

Last edited by The_Nephilim : April 13th, 2013 at 9:09 AM.
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  #5  
Old April 16th, 2013, 10:36 PM
mentatgom mentatgom is offline
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Is your subwoofer ported? If so, my guess is that you are experiencing port noise. On that track and my VTF2Mk3 tuned to 18hz, I experience a large amount of port noise; less so when tuned to 25hz with two ports open. When playing back that 16hz note, the sub is moving a lot of air and depending on your configuration, you'll experience some fluttering from turbulence between the air and the port.
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  #6  
Old April 17th, 2013, 9:13 AM
SME SME is offline
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I have a VTF15H and a VTF3-MK4. I can play the 16 Hz tone on Saint Saens Passage with enough output to "hear" it as well as "feel" it with no significant port noise. I know this because in my previous home, I pushed my VTF3-MK4 to the point of creating noticeable port noise. At that point, the output is near its maximum anyway. I seriously doubt one could produce 7 Hz at audible levels with even several of these ported subs. Several ULS-15s might be able to get there, barely.
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  #7  
Old April 20th, 2013, 5:03 PM
The_Nephilim The_Nephilim is offline
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No It is Not port noise my port is fine and not making the noise..

Well I was just quoting what that guy states that the Cannon shots are at 7hz I do not know for fact if they are or not just quoting what he said and if it is tre I clearly hear them on my Subwoofer..

I am not debating whether or not the 1812 overture is Down to 7hz just trying to determine what I am supposed to hear on the saint saens Song..


Wish Dr. HSu would input some of his observations on this piece..
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  #8  
Old May 6th, 2013, 2:15 PM
ATL ATL is offline
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Getting back to the original question, I think the reason infrasonic tones -- be it organ or helicopter -- sound like more of a flutter than a tone is that our ear/brain can differentiate the individual sound waves in that region. We can't really hear the 500 cycle-changes per second of a 500 Hz tone, but down in the 16 cycles-per-second range, I think we can hear the individual cycle changes of the sound wave. (Much like our eyes can't see a light flickering on & off 60 times a second, but notices it at a slower rate.)

A much more useful (for subs) section of the Saint-Saens "Organ Symphony" is the final measures of the last movement. The bass line starts at the middle C in the pedals (16-foot pipe speaking at 32 Hz), and descends down the C-major scale to the low C (32-foot pipe speaking at 16 Hz), hitting every note in between. If you mute your main speakers so just the subs are playing, it's a pretty good test for low-end extension. That final movement also opens with a big C-major chord played on full organ without orchestra, so is also a good test for 16 Hz extension.

I have a couple recordings of it, but the best I have is of the San Francisco Symphony with Edo de Waart conducting and Jean Guillou, organist, on the Philips recording label.

I would encourage any self-proclaimed bass freaks to go listen to an organ recital sometime in person if there's a large church or cathedral nearby. If it's a large organ with at least a couple 32-foot ranks of pipes, it'll be the cleanest, most powerful bass you can find in a natural acoustic setting. There are actually a few organs out there with 64-foot pipes, which would speak around 8 Hz, but probably less than a half dozen of those worldwide. There are some recordings of them out there too, but I haven't heard any of them.
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  #9  
Old May 6th, 2013, 10:36 PM
SME SME is offline
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Wow, awesome post ATL! Thanks for the tips!
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  #10  
Old July 9th, 2013, 11:46 AM
Jacobariel Jacobariel is offline
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Interesting someone mentioned the Saint Saens track 1. I played that track awhile back at -18-25 volume and the entire room was rattling at the 16 hz note.

Could a not that low cause hearing loss or ringing?
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  #11  
Old September 23rd, 2013, 5:02 AM
jsbeesl jsbeesl is offline
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Absolutely it can, yes. High sound pressure can cause hearing loss regardless of pitch. A shuttle launch is a good example of how low frequency sounds can be devastatingly loud. The trick is that it is much more difficult to create high SPL at lower frequencies with stereo equipment, and the vibration in your home as a result of a low frequency signal is not strictly indicative of SPL. There are many other factors, such as sound conduction through the floors/walls, and resonant frequencies of items in the room.

Usually, assuming your subwoofers are level-matched to your speakers (as opposed to being cranked up to 11), you will turn your system back down from the mids and highs being too much to bear before you reach the threshold of bass being so loud it is going to cause hearing damage.
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  #12  
Old September 23rd, 2013, 5:42 AM
Jacobariel Jacobariel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbeesl View Post
Absolutely it can, yes. High sound pressure can cause hearing loss regardless of pitch. A shuttle launch is a good example of how low frequency sounds can be devastatingly loud. The trick is that it is much more difficult to create high SPL at lower frequencies with stereo equipment, and the vibration in your home as a result of a low frequency signal is not strictly indicative of SPL. There are many other factors, such as sound conduction through the floors/walls, and resonant frequencies of items in the room.

Usually, assuming your subwoofers are level-matched to your speakers (as opposed to being cranked up to 11), you will turn your system back down from the mids and highs being too much to bear before you reach the threshold of bass being so loud it is going to cause hearing damage.
Yes my speakes are level matched. Audyssey se the sub to +5. At hte time of the test the driver was rattling and walls too but my ears did not feel it. It was not loud just felt the bass. Not sure if that caused the tinnitus.

Last edited by Jacobariel : September 23rd, 2013 at 5:53 AM.
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  #13  
Old September 25th, 2013, 4:42 AM
soupy1970 soupy1970 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobariel View Post
Yes my speakes are level matched. Audyssey se the sub to +5. At hte time of the test the driver was rattling and walls too but my ears did not feel it. It was not loud just felt the bass. Not sure if that caused the tinnitus.
Where do you have your volume knob set? I have mine around the 8 o’clock position and Ausyssey sets mine to -3.5. Just curious how low you have it set to get a +5 level.
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  #14  
Old September 25th, 2013, 5:16 AM
Jacobariel Jacobariel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupy1970 View Post
Where do you have your volume knob set? I have mine around the 8 o’clock position and Ausyssey sets mine to -3.5. Just curious how low you have it set to get a +5 level.
The sub gain is set at 8 o'clock or so. As long as Audyssey sets it around -/+5 that is considered correct.
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  #15  
Old September 25th, 2013, 8:00 AM
soupy1970 soupy1970 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobariel View Post
The sub gain is set at 8 o'clock or so. As long as Audyssey sets it around -/+5 that is considered correct.
I try to get close to 0db because I heard somewhere that Auto on/off doesn't work when set to far out of range. I run my 3db hot so I am at -0.5. I was just curious how low you had to turn your knob to get such a high plus. I guess room and distance plays a big role since we are both at 8 0'clock and my sub runs 8.5db hotter at that setting in Audyssey. My Sub is nearfield though.
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