enlarging the sweet spot??

[buddhadas]

I recently stumbled into a/v as my hobby, and am thrilled. I have a Pioneer VSX-815 a/v receiver , Klipsch f3's for my fronts and the vt-12/stf3 package. My room is 25x15 with 8 foot ceiling. The system sounds amazing to this old goat, but just in one magic "sweet spot." Is there any way to enlarge the spot, or am I stuck because of the dimensions of my room? or any other reasons?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Jim

[Pete_Hsu]

Dear buddhadas,

If you have not already done so, please fill out our product support form, here: http://www.hsuresearch.com/support/index.php?id=36 , and we will give you recommendations on placement and setup in your room.

Take care, and enjoy!

Sincerely,

[buddhadas]

Originally Posted by Peter Marcks

Dear buddhadas,

If you have not already done so, please fill out our product support form, here: http://www.hsuresearch.com/support/index.php?id=36 , and we will give you recommendations on placement and setup in your room.

Take care, and enjoy!

Sincerely,

Thanks Peter. I did fill that out prior to purchase. I located the sub and the vt's per Dr. Hsu's reccomondations.
Thanks for the quick reply.
Jim

[Pete_Hsu]

Well done, Jim, that is a great place to start. Always our pleasure to help!

Sincerely,

[buddhadas]

So, I am still lost per my question. Do I need the Radio Shack meter I "hear" you guys talking about? I used the auto setup on my reciever, but I suspect this is just a starting point.
thanks,
Jim

[brian32672]

I am assuming you are talking about sweet spot for bass? Or are you not getting enough dispersion from your mains/center channel?
You may need to look into dispersion panels, not absorbing bass traps.
This would be one place to start - http://www.realtraps.com/ also this http://www.rpginc.com/residential/index.htm
And this may help - http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...acoustics.html (I recommend reading this one (Gene ).
Also have you tried toeing your mains out a tad for a better dispersion?
What are your room dimensions? (Edit - Oops saw that answered in first post)
That is a fairly large room - So where is your sitting position?
Is it a bright room? Carpet? Wood/Tile Floor? Windows? Sliding glass doors?
What are you crossover settings at?
Mains - Are they set to large/small?
What is your typical listening level (in db=decibels)? You will need a meter for that question.
What is your percentage to music/movies?
That receivers MCACC will more than likely set the mains to large, which will rob bass from the sub. There is a setting (or should be) for Sub Plus when speakers are set to large.

BTW, Gene is the President of the U.S. (Doh, I mean Audioholics)
Great place for info - No offense Hsu, this place is great as well.

[buddhadas]

Thanks Brian!
I was speaking of dispersion when watching movies (fronts) Amazingly, the sub I think is in the right spot (thanks Dr. Hsu) The room is carpeted with one window, and one sliding glass door (both on the same wall with a fireplace in-between.) the opposite wall has two large openings, one into the kitchen, one into the foyer, kitchen is tile floor, and foyer is hardwood floor.
Seating position is 14 feet from the front, 11 feet behind.
Crossover is set to 80hz.
Mains are set to small. You're right, when I run the MCACC it automatically sets the mains as large, and I do have the option of Sub Plus, but per HSU, I then go back and manually set the mains to small.
I have yet to purchase/use a meter.
Typically, I listen to music about 80% of the time, however this sub/system sounds so good with movies, that I find myself watching more movies than usual.
Thank you for the articles, I (foolishly) thought I was done spending money on this set-up for a while.
When you say "toe out" the speakers, do you mean away or out from square, or out from their current toed in position (which would square them)?
I really appreciate all your help, as I said earlier, I am completely new to all this, but at least now I have other options to pursue. I think my next step is a meter, and see if I can figure that out, it's certainly the cheapest step.
Thanks,
Jim

[tgrisham]

The meter will certainly help adjust all the speaker levels equally for a 5.1 setup. It may not help the issue of the sweet spot unless the problem is adjusting the level of a center channel, if you have one. Another idea you may want to try is one of the set up discs by Avia or Stereophile. The Hsu setup disc also has pink noise and white noise. I think that by using these discs and a variety of music, both in Mono and in stereo, you can nudge your speakers forward and back, in and out and see if that helps. Some speakers have good off-axis sound, and others do not. Mostly, I have found that it comes down to experimentation. Good luck!

[brian32672]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back with you. I hang out at other forums, I visit here.
One of these days, I might make it a permanent home...

Yeah I had figured you were talking about your mains & center for dispersion.
Bass would be more of a void or null in one particular spot in the room.

Anyhow, your settings look ok.
And it is surprising on the Klipsch speakers, they are made for wide dispersion.

How far apart are your mains?
Mine are 10' apart and I have a 4' circle around me that is a sweet spot.
(and that is standing up & or sitting)
They are toed in 1* degree, so I recommend playing around with the toeing of the speakers.
Try toeing them out a tad if you have to, and certainly try squaring them.
(this alone can help add a phantom center)

For the center - Where is its location? Is it at ear level?
Above/below ear level? If so, how much of an angle is it at, to be directed to your ears?
The more angle = the more degree of hurting the sweet spot.
Less angle = less degree of errors.
But then again, sometimes you have to work with what you got or works for you and possibly a loved one (hence the WAF)

The settings of small is where it should be.
A meter could help but is not 100% needed. It would certainly help level match your speakers.
And with a little knowledge, you could use it for a in-room FR plot.
(The MCACC is supposed to do most of this, and it does a fine job most of the time, Pioneer's
MCACC is one of the best auto calibrations in the business. But when problems arrive a meter could help solve these problems quicker)

Which that may be your problem (no FR plot), there may be a dip in the 200 - 1Khz range.
In your case that should be fixable pretty easy.
The receiver you have should have a 5 band EQ for each individual speaker.
I would try upping this frequency area first, you should have a place to set a memory of EQ settings.
Also try other DSP settings, other than just Dolby digital. Try Advanced Music, Or Pro Logic IIx, Some of the Music Modes, etc... The setting alone will disperse sound a tad more (reason mainly is that it is changing some EQ settings for each mode and boosting some frequencies, that is the short of it. It is not actually changing your EQ settings, anyhow)(some of the settings will also add what may sound like a phantom center channel)

I am also assuming that you have turned the trim level up/down a tad for the center?
This may throw level matching out the window, but may also have an added phantom effect.
Also there may be a button for dialogue enhancement on that receiver.

Dispersion panels would help, but they are more of a last case scenario. I think a good portion of
the problem can be fixed without them for now. There are tons of things to try (even before buying a meter) So I would try these things first, then go the next route of buying a meter, then see where you stand.

There may be other problems but,
I am sending a PM (private message) get back to that for me, if you can.
That may solve your problems quicker.....