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  #1  
Old June 6th, 2004, 11:17 AM
flashbackk flashbackk is offline
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Question Banana's worth it?

Well. I am saving money like crazy. I got an Onkyo 502 ( $300) , VT-12 and STF-2 ( $600), I am off to Home Depot for their speaker wire and I stop in Radio Shack for the banana plugs and WOW. 14 pairs of plugs plus the rear surround is going to cost me a small fortune. I have been using the binding posts for years. Is it worth it to spring for the bananas?
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  #2  
Old June 6th, 2004, 9:37 PM
tdekany tdekany is offline
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I didn't - also because I am very unhandy. I couldn't do it even if I wanted to.
You can always do it later on if you so desire.
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  #3  
Old June 6th, 2004, 9:47 PM
jephdood jephdood is offline
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I don't think there's an acoustic advantage to use banana plugs, but they are definitely convenient when having to disconnect and reconnect.
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  #4  
Old June 7th, 2004, 5:37 AM
tdekany tdekany is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jephdood
I don't think there's an acoustic advantage to use banana plugs, but they are definitely convenient when having to disconnect and reconnect.
Years ago I was reading a review in STEREOPHILE about an amp and the reviewer noticed that when ever his cat would lay on it - the sound became warmer! I can't remember his name though.
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  #5  
Old June 7th, 2004, 2:56 PM
glou glou is offline
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I just bought some banana plugs from this store: http://www.speakerrepair.com/Merchan...ode=AHH_Banana

Didn't have to spend a fortune on them.
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  #6  
Old June 7th, 2004, 3:51 PM
animalchin animalchin is offline
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hey..thanks for the link.
I also just got the same setup.
Onkyo 502
vt-12 and st-2 sub.
Can you tell me how many total banana plugs I would need...I havent received the unit yet and I would like to be ready for it when it arrives.
I'm going to have a 6.1 surround setup I think with the 502.
Also...
The smaller plugs are for the center speaker? Anyone know total of those Radio Shack one's?


THX
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  #7  
Old June 7th, 2004, 6:08 PM
jephdood jephdood is offline
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Hmm.. If the cat was covering the vents on top, the receiver was probably heating up warmer than normal. And with the increased heat, there would be more resistance in electrical transfer internally which would then result in a warmer sound. PPppbbbttt!!

I love the folks that have their cabling on risers to get it off the floor. Sheesh. Some people need to start forwarding their extra money to my Paypal account and as a service I will send, via e-mail, a 'virtual smack' to the backs of their heads.

Or, I could develop a cryogenic cable sleeve to keep their wires cooler than normal to facilitate better transfer and increased efficiency thus resulting in better tonality! SUCKERS!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tdekany
Years ago I was reading a review in STEREOPHILE about an amp and the reviewer noticed that when ever his cat would lay on it - the sound became warmer! I can't remember his name though.
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  #8  
Old June 7th, 2004, 7:28 PM
Ddavidson Ddavidson is offline
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Quote:
Years ago I was reading a review in STEREOPHILE about an amp and the reviewer noticed that when ever his cat would lay on it - the sound became warmer! I can't remember his name though.
Most likely the same guy (JK) who noticed how much worse the sound was when we where getting close to having a moon eclipse. More hocus pocus than a room full of black cats, broken mirrors and ladders. People like Noel Lee love all that stuff so people can buy his $400 pr fancy interconnects.

Ddavidson
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  #9  
Old June 7th, 2004, 8:34 PM
flashbackk flashbackk is offline
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I hear there is one-way cable and you need to burn cable in too.....
I picked up my 14 gauge wire at HD and looks real good. I know I will end up with banana plugs eventually. Maybe I will pick up a few at a time. I guess I am just being silly anyway. I have a small fortune in Monster interconnects already. What's a few more bucks. Can't wait till the speakers get here thursday.
Thanks for the input.
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  #10  
Old June 8th, 2004, 7:17 AM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashbackk
I hear there is one-way cable and you need to burn cable in too.....
I'm not following, but I'm guessing this meant to show some sarcasm? I hope not, because as far as burning in cable or all new electronic components I'd have to laugh at you if you don't believe it's true. If you think it's a joke, then...nm, I'll be kind.

As for one-way, I'd say thats probably a tad more of iffy thing, but I wouldn't throw it out the window. If you are using monster cable's run of the mill best buy cable with the "arrow" then you probably aren't going to notice anything because of the well just because of the quality in the first place.

As for banana plugs, they are 100% for convenience. They offer no other advantages as far as most people should be concerned. Personally I'd save that money for some sort of upgrade that will improve sound quality.
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  #11  
Old June 8th, 2004, 1:29 PM
flashbackk flashbackk is offline
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Oh go ahead and laugh. I can take it....You guys are pretty rough over here.I better go back to the gunboards and those watch guys I hang out with are pretty rough too...

I actually was trying to be funny, I guess. I know enough to burn in speakers and subs ( I always assumed it was a break-in procedure ). I also burn in my computers, especially when I overclock them. I am pretty sure that is just to tax them to the max for a period of time to make sure that they will funtion under normal conditions. I doubt very much that a computer performs any better after being burnt in. The idea of burning in a speaker wire was funny to me. Is something happening at a molecluar level??? The idea of speaker wire that had to be facing one particular direction was extremely funny to me. When I was young and getting into stereo the real hot deal was a speaker wire thick as my wrist and about 2 feet long. I really thought that was funny.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a serious note now....What is the equivalent verion of HD speaker wire for my componet video connects? I am using Monster cable now. Ever since my laser disc days when we swithed to digital audio output , I went to optical and coaxial for audio connections. I only keep a couple analog cables for my vcr. The best video for me seems to be componet video cable. What is good brand? I am guessing my Monster cable isn't that good. Bang for buck is important to me,too.
Thanks for all the help.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the above was written by a 53 y/o man sitting here in his boxers laugh if you want
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  #12  
Old June 8th, 2004, 2:37 PM
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Sasha_G Sasha_G is offline
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This thread has some good information on banana plugs for the VT-12

http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=889
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Note: please send questions to sales@hsuresearch.com. Thank you.
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  #13  
Old June 8th, 2004, 6:16 PM
animalchin animalchin is offline
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yes it did. Thanks again...great reference.

Anyone have a part number of a 14ga wire from partsexpress?
I'm about to place my order and would love to add it in there.
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  #14  
Old June 8th, 2004, 6:27 PM
animalchin animalchin is offline
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nevermind...I decided to read.

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  #15  
Old June 8th, 2004, 7:46 PM
Retread Retread is offline
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"Burn In"

[quote=flashbackk]
"I actually was trying to be funny, I guess. I know enough to burn in speakers and subs ( I always assumed it was a break-in procedure ). I also burn in my computers, especially when I overclock them. I am pretty sure that is just to tax them to the max for a period of time to make sure that they will funtion under normal conditions. I doubt very much that a computer performs any better after being burnt in."

Historically, the term "burn in" had to do with a vendor operating electronics for a time before shipping them. Electronic equipment has a fairly consistent failure curve over time. When first turned on, weak components fail. Such failures are sometimes called "infant mortalities." The failure rate drops very rapidly after initial turn-on and stabilizes to a long-term rate that is essentially constant versus time. Constant, that is, until the equipment reaches the end of its life, at which time the failure rate starts to climb rapidly. I think these days a lot of vendors just ship off the production line and expect to pay the warranties of the infant mortalities.

Historically, break-in meant to run a product at considerably less than rated output until the rough edges were worn off. Fifty years ago, an auto engine was shipped with all kinds of burrs on rings and other parts. There was a break-in period of a thousand or more miles in which the car was not supposed to be driven more than, say, 50 MPH. Then you drained the oil, which was full of metal chips that had been sluiced into the pan. With laser manufacturing, I haven't heard auto manufacturers talk about break-in for years. In fact, I thought the concept of a break-in was history until I started hearing people on this site talk about breaking-in a sub.

The concept of a wire needing either a burn-in or a break-in is ludicrous.
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  #16  
Old June 9th, 2004, 1:08 AM
Yohann Yohann is offline
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I still break in engines, never a bad idea to change out anything that might have got in the oil during assembly.


I just bought a Monster Cable Reference wire ($2.50 /ft) and a $20 set of banana's for my Tn 1220. I have bananna's on all my receiver end wires that will take it because it's too damn hard to pull out a 400 pount entertainment center to connect cables if one goes lose, the bananna can be dont almost by feel alone. You can get the ends for better prices if you look around, I think it's worth it to get them as the bare wire is just a pain in the ass.
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  #17  
Old June 9th, 2004, 7:11 AM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashbackk
The concept of a wire needing either a burn-in or a break-in is ludicrous.
I'm going to disagree once again. I'm not going to get scientific for 2 reasons, one thats boring and won't do any convincing any ways, and two I'm not a engineer or scientist so I probably would sound stupid trying to get technical. But I'll take a minute to explain this, I too will admit I thought the idea of burn-in was rediculous, just didn't make sense to me. Until I experienced it for the first time first hand. I would attribute the fact that I never understood it before for 2 reasons (so maybe you should consider the same 2 reasons) a. My equipment was midgrade stuff you pick up at the big ole commerical Best Buy stores (ie crap with a LOT of useless features that are only added on to justify a higher price), and I was using cheap wires b. I wasn't paying enough attention because the equipment I was using was sorry to say, just not good enough to make me pay attention. Then I moved in to budget hi-fi gear and began noticing many differences, and when I first upgraded my speaker cables my ears hurt from the 'tingyness' as the cables first began to integrate wtih my components. I thought at first, hmm these cables suck, but then a magical thing happened, they slowly "burned-in" and the sound warmed up the ting went away and I achieved a great improvement over the wire I was using before. And ever since I've began picking up other differences, so I know first hand it's no BS.

Go ahead don't go along believing it, it really wouldn't hurt my feelings. I'd just hate for yall to go on thinking its a placebo.

On another note, why is it so hard to believe the claims that people who have been in to hi-fi for decades and have some of the best tuned ears have made? I think if you review the majority of audiophile information from these folks they will make lots of claims that sound asinine to you, but I kind of believe their claims and want to experience them first hand compared to believing what someone who runs a $500 a/v receiver with 7.1 and cheap monster cable says...
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  #18  
Old June 9th, 2004, 9:42 AM
Retread Retread is offline
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Bananas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohann
I still break in engines, never a bad idea to change out anything that might have got in the oil during assembly.


I just bought a Monster Cable Reference wire ($2.50 /ft) and a $20 set of banana's for my Tn 1220. I have bananna's on all my receiver end wires that will take it because it's too damn hard to pull out a 400 pount entertainment center to connect cables if one goes lose, the bananna can be dont almost by feel alone. You can get the ends for better prices if you look around, I think it's worth it to get them as the bare wire is just a pain in the ass.
Being an engineer, I tend to keep rearranging things, so I bought Radio Shack individual solderless bananas. They have a screw-on shell that presses the wires onto a conical section to make the electrical/mechanical connection. They are color coded so it's easy to keep track of the ends. I bought several hundred feet of 12 GA copper "speaker cable" from Home Depot and terminated the correct lengths on the bananas. Currently my speaker wires are hanging from hooks on the ceiling beams, but once I think I've stablized my configuration I will run the wires through the attic and make a professional looking installation. 12 GA makes for a LOT of copper leaving the amp.
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  #19  
Old June 9th, 2004, 10:00 AM
Sen Sen is offline
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by octalon7
I'm going to disagree once again. I'm not going to get scientific for 2 reasons, one thats boring and won't do any convincing any ways, and two I'm not a engineer or scientist so I probably would sound stupid trying to get technical. But I'll take a minute to explain this, I too will admit I thought the idea of burn-in was rediculous, just didn't make sense to me. Until I experienced it for the first time first hand. I would attribute the fact that I never understood it before for 2 reasons (so maybe you should consider the same 2 reasons) a. My equipment was midgrade stuff you pick up at the big ole commerical Best Buy stores (ie crap with a LOT of useless features that are only added on to justify a higher price), and I was using cheap wires b. I wasn't paying enough attention because the equipment I was using was sorry to say, just not good enough to make me pay attention. Then I moved in to budget hi-fi gear and began noticing many differences, and when I first upgraded my speaker cables my ears hurt from the 'tingyness' as the cables first began to integrate wtih my components. I thought at first, hmm these cables suck, but then a magical thing happened, they slowly "burned-in" and the sound warmed up the ting went away and I achieved a great improvement over the wire I was using before. And ever since I've began picking up other differences, so I know first hand it's no BS.

Go ahead don't go along believing it, it really wouldn't hurt my feelings. I'd just hate for yall to go on thinking its a placebo.

On another note, why is it so hard to believe the claims that people who have been in to hi-fi for decades and have some of the best tuned ears have made? I think if you review the majority of audiophile information from these folks they will make lots of claims that sound asinine to you, but I kind of believe their claims and want to experience them first hand compared to believing what someone who runs a $500 a/v receiver with 7.1 and cheap monster cable says...
I used to believe in burn-in/break-in too.. but not anymore

http://2eyespy.tripod.com/myaudioand...epage/id3.html

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?threadid=3601

Also you can look at the various forums (AVSforums, Hometheaterforums, etc) for more info.

Still a lot of people believe in all that stuff.. more power to them

From what I understand (or believe) it is your ears that get burned-in (get used to the sound).

Anyway my 2 cents.
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  #20  
Old June 9th, 2004, 10:41 AM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen
I used to believe in burn-in/break-in too.. but not anymore

From what I understand (or believe) it is your ears that get burned-in (get used to the sound).

Anyway my 2 cents.

It's not what I believe, it's what I've experienced first hand. I can understand someone's argument about your body adjusting, but lets put it this way. If you know certain albums intimately you will know the difference right away. I mean as I said, when I first switched to some different wires, I thought "wow this sounds like hell" but after burn-in it sounds a ton better than anything I had before...and even switching back to the other wires to be sure. It's not convincing yourself it sounds better to you, its experiencing it first-hand. I'm sure I could throw on websites and links here all day, but your links haven't convinced me I was hearing ghosts, so I doubt my links would do any convincing for you.

But if you do want to follow your information about audio myths, you might want to sell your HSU product, because this company claims break-in on their products...hmm they must be wrong too?

I guess it's all relative, if you think your stuff sounds good to you, more power to you...you just haven't heard better, feel lucky...I thought the same for years, but once you hear the difference it's hard to go back.
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  #21  
Old June 9th, 2004, 1:40 PM
Sen Sen is offline
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by octalon7
It's not what I believe, it's what I've experienced first hand. I can understand someone's argument about your body adjusting, but lets put it this way. If you know certain albums intimately you will know the difference right away. I mean as I said, when I first switched to some different wires, I thought "wow this sounds like hell" but after burn-in it sounds a ton better than anything I had before...and even switching back to the other wires to be sure. It's not convincing yourself it sounds better to you, its experiencing it first-hand. I'm sure I could throw on websites and links here all day, but your links haven't convinced me I was hearing ghosts, so I doubt my links would do any convincing for you.
I'm sort of new to the Hi-fi world - am learning a lot everyday (mostly from forums).. So when everyone were talking about break-in - it sort of looked logical and I bought that.. When I hear the other side, it seems logical too.. I think only by critical listening (which I've never done) u can know for sure.. Right now I am not a believer of break-in.. which might change.. who knows

Quote:
Originally Posted by octalon7
But if you do want to follow your information about audio myths, you might want to sell your HSU product, because this company claims break-in on their products...hmm they must be wrong too?
Actually I am yet to buy a Hsu product.. but hopefully will buy soon.. Also in one of the threads discussing the speaker break-in, one guy said that there would be a difference in the sonic characterestics of a speaker due to break-in, which might NOT be a Audible difference - which seems logical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by octalon7
I guess it's all relative, if you think your stuff sounds good to you, more power to you...you just haven't heard better, feel lucky...I thought the same for years, but once you hear the difference it's hard to go back.
Well I have a lot of listening to do.. Hi-fi has a lot of vague confusing words (bright, harsh, etc) and am still learning all that stuff.. maybe after some years I will be a believer too..
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  #22  
Old June 9th, 2004, 1:57 PM
Retread Retread is offline
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Speaker Break-in

[quote=octalon7]
But if you do want to follow your information about audio myths, you might want to sell your HSU product, because this company claims break-in on their products...hmm they must be wrong too?

A speaker is an ELECTRO-MECHANICAL device. The electro-part is stable from the beginning. The mechanical part isn't. In particular, the flexibility/centering-force of the webbing changes over the short-term. The control system analog of flexibility/centering-force is capacitance. A change in flexibility/centering-force translates to a change in the control system properties, and therefore to a change in sound.

There is no basis for making an analogy between an electro-mechanical system requiring break-in and a cable requiring break-in. A cable is not a mechanical device.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 2:57 PM
Retread Retread is offline
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The science

[quote=Sen]I'm sort of new to the Hi-fi world - am learning a lot everyday (mostly from forums).. So when everyone were talking about break-in - it sort of looked logical and I bought that.. When I hear the other side, it seems logical too.. I think only by critical listening (which I've never done) u can know for sure.. Right now I am not a believer of break-in.. which might change.. who knows

As I said in another post, a speaker is an electro-mechanical system. The centering-force of the web changes over the short-term and can affect the control system properties of the speaker. Therefore, the concept of speaker break-in has a sound basis in the science of the device.

Web sites on the subject of cable burn-in or break-in talk about the dielectric changing properties. I even saw one web site advertising cable cookers that are supposed to hasten the changes in dielectric properties. The problem with speaker cable break-in or burn-in is that the speaker circuit is very low impedance, typically around 8-ohms. There is no "skin effect" at audio frequencies, and it would take whopping big (technical term) capacitance and/or inductance to have any effect at all at audio frequencies -- vastly greater (another technical term) than are actually present in speaker cables. To argue that CHANGES in dielectric properties that are already too small to matter cause audible changes in sound, is just way beyond credibility.

Every now and then, these kinds of approaches crop up on any web site on pretty much any topic. They can be ignored or rebutted. Ignore them and they become urban legend, accepted by those who don't have the technical knowledge to discount them. Rebut them, and the kinds of threads we are currently experiencing result. I think it is responsible to rebut to the point that the readers understand that there are issues
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  #24  
Old June 9th, 2004, 3:15 PM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retread

A speaker is an ELECTRO-MECHANICAL device. The electro-part is stable from the beginning. The mechanical part isn't. In particular, the flexibility/centering-force of the webbing changes over the short-term. The control system analog of flexibility/centering-force is capacitance. A change in flexibility/centering-force translates to a change in the control system properties, and therefore to a change in sound.

There is no basis for making an analogy between an electro-mechanical system requiring break-in and a cable requiring break-in. A cable is not a mechanical device.
You totally missed my point. I completely understand the difference between the two, it was not an analogy. I was stating that on the website Sen listed they also mention that speaker break-in is a myth. My point being, if Sen was going to take that source as a correct point of view, then he/she might want to reconsider it.

I wasn't intertwining the two, I was simply stating that the source may be unreliable considering the other stuff they have referenced on their site.
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  #25  
Old June 9th, 2004, 3:24 PM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retread

As I said in another post, a speaker is an electro-mechanical system. The centering-force of the web changes over the short-term and can affect the control system properties of the speaker. Therefore, the concept of speaker break-in has a sound basis in the science of the device.

Web sites on the subject of cable burn-in or break-in talk about the dielectric changing properties. I even saw one web site advertising cable cookers that are supposed to hasten the changes in dielectric properties. The problem with speaker cable break-in or burn-in is that the speaker circuit is very low impedance, typically around 8-ohms. There is no "skin effect" at audio frequencies, and it would take whopping big (technical term) capacitance and/or inductance to have any effect at all at audio frequencies -- vastly greater (another technical term) than are actually present in speaker cables. To argue that CHANGES in dielectric properties that are already too small to matter cause audible changes in sound, is just way beyond credibility.

Every now and then, these kinds of approaches crop up on any web site on pretty much any topic. They can be ignored or rebutted. Ignore them and they become urban legend, accepted by those who don't have the technical knowledge to discount them. Rebut them, and the kinds of threads we are currently experiencing result. I think it is responsible to rebut to the point that the readers understand that there are issues
As mentioned before I said it was a noticeable audible difference once the wires burned in with MY particular components. If you want to go the technical route, be my guest, but I wasn't going to approach it. My statement being made was that from personal experience burn-in or whatever, christ I'll make up a new name for it if you would prefer...I'll call it "familiarization" from hence forth has been observed by many audio enthusiasts, audiophiles and the like. Once again, my point is, regardless if you need scientific backup of the phenomena I now call "familiarization" by getting technical you fail to recognize or explain the fact that there is an observable difference (for many people any ways) in sound once a wire/cable has "settled in" with a system. If you have never experienced this, then more power to you, maybe you were lucky and magically affixed some new cables or wires that sounded amazing instantaneously...or maybe you are the lucky one to be able to go out and buy $3 wire and produce sound like none other. It probably goes to note here that for the most part speaker wire is less important than interconnects, so maybe that's why so many people feel there is no reason to believe in any "myths" or "phenomena" regarding speaker wire, but that's another can of worms left for some other forum. Back to subwoofer talk or something...
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  #26  
Old June 9th, 2004, 5:05 PM
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Being clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by octalon7
You totally missed my point. I completely understand the difference between the two, it was not an analogy. I was stating that on the website Sen listed they also mention that speaker break-in is a myth. My point being, if Sen was going to take that source as a correct point of view, then he/she might want to reconsider it.

I wasn't intertwining the two, I was simply stating that the source may be unreliable considering the other stuff they have referenced on their site.
If one wants to be understood, then one perhaps should state specifically what one wants to be understood. If you wanted to challenge the credibility of a specific web site, then you perhaps should have said that instead of saying "But if you do want to follow your information about audio myths, you might want to sell your HSU product, because this company claims break-in on their products...hmm they must be wrong too?"
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  #27  
Old June 9th, 2004, 5:27 PM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retread
If one wants to be understood, then one perhaps should state specifically what one wants to be understood. If you wanted to challenge the credibility of a specific web site, then you perhaps should have said that instead of saying "But if you do want to follow your information about audio myths, you might want to sell your HSU product, because this company claims break-in on their products...hmm they must be wrong too?"
Nah, maybe you should reconsider what you inferred about what I wrote. I never made the analogy, that was you attempting to say I did. Sen understood me...he replied to my statements, that's who I was directing my comments at or was my quotation not clear enough?
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  #28  
Old June 9th, 2004, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octalon7
Nah, maybe you should reconsider what you inferred about what I wrote. I never made the analogy, that was you attempting to say I did. Sen understood me...he replied to my statements, that's who I was directing my comments at or was my quotation not clear enough?
I think I might have mixed up speaker break-in to the mix too.. sorry.. Anyway IMHO I don't believe in cable break-in and I think that the very high priced audiophile cables are not worth it..

I do believe that speaker break-in does have science behind it.. But I'm not sure if it a VERY audible difference.. The second thread that I had linked talks about a blind test for testing speaker break-in - and the tester couldn't distinguish between the broken-in and new speaker. So that raised some doubts in me about the amount of sonic difference the speaker could undergo due to break-in. A lot of people believe that the difference would be day and night - between a broken-in and new speaker, which I would doubt..
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Old June 9th, 2004, 7:32 PM
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My opinion is that Sonex and good subwoofer placement will improve the sound many orders of magnitude more than any speaker cable will.

They say that the listening room is the "final component", or the final piece of the puzzle.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 8:46 PM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen
I think I might have mixed up speaker break-in to the mix too.. sorry.. Anyway IMHO I don't believe in cable break-in and I think that the very high priced audiophile cables are not worth it..

I do believe that speaker break-in does have science behind it.. But I'm not sure if it a VERY audible difference.. The second thread that I had linked talks about a blind test for testing speaker break-in - and the tester couldn't distinguish between the broken-in and new speaker. So that raised some doubts in me about the amount of sonic difference the speaker could undergo due to break-in. A lot of people believe that the difference would be day and night - between a broken-in and new speaker, which I would doubt..
I too am in the realm of saying high priced cables aren't worth it (it being my money), simply because I'm on a budget just like most and my feet are hardly wet when it comes to this hobby...but some day, I would like to move up. As I said before it's all relative to what you want to hear. If you are happy with your system then GREAT...if you don't notice a burn-in or break-in, fine, nothing wrong with that. All I was saying is that I have seen it first hand and I don't believe it's a myth. But this is a hobby, and with all hobbies, you will notice people who are happy with the normal stuff, and then there are serious people. I think to the normal person you are completely right, the difference won't be quite night and day because the common person doesn't listen that intensely to even care. But that doesn't mean the common person won't be able to tell the difference, it may just not seem that important to them to spend the money on it. I can see the viewpoint that you don't think it's worth it, I don't have blinders on, there are plenty of things I don't think the extra money is worth it for, but there are people obviously buying the products for a reason, because it matters to them.

But your second thread is one person's account. I've seen quite a few times on this board people asking "What settings do I need?" or "Does this sound better when I do this or that?" I don't get it. It's how it sounds to you that matters...I can't emphasize that enough.

So there we go, the line has been drawn between the believers and the non-believers and we can bounce back and forth all day. I just don't see how so many people can say it doesnt exist, when they haven't tried listening in the first place. Whatcha callin me crazy?

But back to the topic at hand, banana's as I said before are for convenience. How often are you behind your speakers changing things around? I'm not there very often on mine, so I don't see the point in spending the money when I can save up for something else that will offer some quality improvement. But they sell them for a reason, and many people buy them, so it's your choice flashbakk, but enjoy your new speakers...that's what counts.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by octalon7
I can see the viewpoint that you don't think it's worth it, I don't have blinders on, there are plenty of things I don't think the extra money is worth it for, but there are people obviously buying the products for a reason, because it matters to them.
I'm perfectly willing to consider even theoritical differences that aren't detectable by "golden ears audiophiles." However, as a former electrical engineering university professor, I refuse to grant credibility to mechanisms that have no rational basis in theory. "Breaking-in" or "burning-in" speaker cables falls into that category.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 9:37 PM
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I'm perfectly willing to consider even theoritical differences that aren't detectable by "golden ears audiophiles." However, as a former electrical engineering university professor, I refuse to grant credibility to mechanisms that have no rational basis in theory. "Breaking-in" or "burning-in" speaker cables falls into that category.
Isn't that where the difference between pure science and engineering science diverge? I hear that all the time from physicist about EE people.
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Old June 10th, 2004, 7:45 AM
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Definition

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Isn't that where the difference between pure science and engineering science diverge? I hear that all the time from physicist about EE people.
Britannica defines "engineering" thusly: "the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people "
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Old June 10th, 2004, 9:23 AM
octalon7 octalon7 is offline
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I must be certifiably crazy then.

Cryogenics, now thats another topic, I'll leave that for the Doctorates though.
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