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  #1  
Old April 10th, 2006, 1:40 PM
Jim Walt Jim Walt is offline
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3HO Shipping - Good/Bad News

I just got off the phone with Hsu folks.

Good news. I can get my unit shipped next week. I am 504X.

Bad news. They won't be getting in the new drivers until probably June.

So, I can have it shipped next week, but know I will have to replace the driver when the new units come in in June. Until, then, just beware of going too loud with certain type of movie sounds. The new driver will be shipped free, and supposedly easy to replace that most folks can do easily.
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  #2  
Old April 10th, 2006, 2:31 PM
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You've got to be kidding. Did they say how many they expect to ship next week?

I'm not putting down Hsu products at all here. I've heard them and I know my HO will be worth the wait. I just wish that it wasn't a 6 month wait.
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  #3  
Old April 10th, 2006, 3:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Walt
I just got off the phone with Hsu folks.

Good news. I can get my unit shipped next week. I am 504X.

Bad news. They won't be getting in the new drivers until probably June.

So, I can have it shipped next week, but know I will have to replace the driver when the new units come in in June. Until, then, just beware of going too loud with certain type of movie sounds. The new driver will be shipped free, and supposedly easy to replace that most folks can do easily.
Even with the not-to-spec driver, my HO turbos are doing very nicely. We did manage to make one of the twins "unhappy" over the weekend, but other than that brief moment of very high level LFE, they sound great. Swapping a driver isn't particularly hard, typically a screwdriver, pliers and making sure you connect the two wires properly. It's unfortunate that the first drivers weren't what the Dr. ordered, both for the company and customers. It's a somewhat expensive route for Hsu to go, but I know they don't want to keep customers waiting.
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Old April 10th, 2006, 4:00 PM
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506x still has a "couple more weeks" before it ships. So the first week of May I guess.
Damn. Well it'll be an early Birthday present instead of a late X-mas present.
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  #5  
Old April 10th, 2006, 4:55 PM
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How many 50xx's are there? I don't even want to estimate how long before the 60xx start to ship.
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  #6  
Old April 10th, 2006, 5:58 PM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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60xx will probably already have the new driver so I expect June or July. Just a guess.
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  #7  
Old April 11th, 2006, 4:42 PM
joeongaro joeongaro is offline
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it is totally easy to replace the driver as i had to replace mine. the leads from the amp are clips so it is easy to take them on and off. all you need is a screwdriver. i was suprised at how heavy the driver was.
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  #8  
Old April 13th, 2006, 4:25 AM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Jeez..... I have visited the forum in a few days, and now the ship date for me looks like it's July! Granted, my HT room isn't done right now, and I could only hope it will be done by July..... but that doesn't mean I could have this beast hooked up somewhere else in my house! I'm dying from the anticipation.

I've never owned a sub before!!!! My neighbor was checking out my basement yesterday and was gushing over "my mystery sub" because I've talked it up so much...
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  #9  
Old May 4th, 2006, 9:01 AM
BJG2005 BJG2005 is offline
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05080s should ship next week

I hadn't seen anything about any shipments in the forum for a while and I started getting (more) nervous.

I called and they said the 05070s are shipping this week and the 80s should ship next week. That would be me!

They did give me the choice of waiting for the new driver, but I've been subless for so long. I can handle swapping the new driver when it comes.

I'll let you know when I get the sub!
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  #10  
Old May 4th, 2006, 2:05 PM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJG2005
I hadn't seen anything about any shipments in the forum for a while and I started getting (more) nervous.

I called and they said the 05070s are shipping this week and the 80s should ship next week. That would be me!

They did give me the choice of waiting for the new driver, but I've been subless for so long. I can handle swapping the new driver when it comes.

I'll let you know when I get the sub!
Does anyone no how high the 50s go so we can get a feel for the 60s.
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  #11  
Old May 5th, 2006, 12:00 PM
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I did not want to mess around with my '3HOs. Simple as it might be, I feel much more comfortable letting the folks at HSU swap out the driver. Fortunately, I have a pretty capable sub to sustain me while I wait.

I was surprised to read that apparently, NO ONE has received the new driver yet. Those that have been replaced were replaced with another of the original drivers.

I really feel sorry for Dr. Hsu. Forces beyond his control have conspired to create an expensive and labor intensive situation for the company that is most unfortunate. However, a pair of '3HO's should meet my subwoofing needs for the rest of my life.
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  #12  
Old May 5th, 2006, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy
...a pair of '3HO's should meet my subwoofing needs for the rest of my life.
I remember a very similar line to my spouse, about the time I got my 12va circa 1998...

I'm sure my HO turbos will be in one or both of my "primary" systems in my home for quite a few years...mortality tables say I've got at least 30-something more years (...but maybe I'm deaf already!). I'm betting the Doctor creates at least two or three more major advances in that time mandating that I upgrade.
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  #13  
Old May 11th, 2006, 3:57 PM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Peter,


Can we get any official word on the driver for the HOs. My wife is going to forget that she agreed to get the sub. I do not mind waiting for it to be right but we are hearing June and we are almost half way through May. Just looking for a little update as I think I have made the right decision from everything I have heard and read.
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  #14  
Old May 11th, 2006, 6:25 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Good evening Jhixson,

Nothing concrete to report yet, but hopefully we will have more to say within the next 4 weeks or so.

I am of the opinion that Dr. Hsu has been forced to design products with one hand tied behind his back for the past few years, and this was evident with the first run of VTF-3 HO's too. I believe that his hands are not tied now. In a few weeks time, that will make more sense.

Keep your head up all, I know the wait is very difficult, but things will be much better in the long run this way. I apologize for the cryptic remarks, but it is necessary at this time.

Sincerely,
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  #15  
Old May 11th, 2006, 8:09 PM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Kind of confusing how the owner was forced to design things with his hands behind his back....??? I just don't get that.

If we're not going to hear anything for 4 weeks, then are we looking at July-August? I called Hsu last week and was told my sub would ship in June. I told the lady I didn't think that was feasible and she said it certainly was. Seems crazy.....

Can you give us anymore info Peter? Is the new driver still being tested? Is it approved and being manufactured? Is there still an issue even with the new driver? I appreciate any insight you can provide.
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  #16  
Old May 11th, 2006, 8:23 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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I know this is confusing jerrod, but at the moment I would rather not go into any detail about that. Manufacturing is not quite complete yet. Yes we did test the new driver, it is a very good driver. Expect something a bit different and better than first run, is all I can say.
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  #17  
Old May 11th, 2006, 10:14 PM
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Peter,

I can appreciate the cryptic approach, given your competitors - but the comment about designing while "handcuffed" seems strange. If the good Dr. asks build houses (for subs and amps) for a product, and can supply the $ what is the problem? Certainly there are many U.S. and off-shore companies willing to build anything for a price, aren't there? I know you can't comment, but perhaps this problem coincides with the multiple problems Adire has had in making their line of XBL2 drivers available?

As a side note, is it just me or has their been a strange lack of quality drivers available to the consumer for what seems like 6-9 months (or more)?

JP
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  #18  
Old May 11th, 2006, 10:34 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Dear JP,

Alas, my opinion on Dr. Hsu having one hand tied behind his back over the past few years is based on a few different observations and occurrences during that time period. Some things that I know about would really shock you guys. Fortunately, thanks in large part to Dr. Hsu's perseverance, we have resolved some of these issues.

I don't think that the issues we have had are related to anything that has happened with Adire. The first run woofer was simply not designed/constructed as we wanted it. Along the way, Dr. Hsu proposed several different refinements/enhancements to the woofer.

Hope this helps
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  #19  
Old May 12th, 2006, 4:38 AM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Thanks for the response.
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  #20  
Old May 12th, 2006, 6:07 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Well, delays happen, but I like hearing news that the new driver should have some improvements as well, besides being "to spec." I have to say, I am very excited to hear the new driver, because the one I have behind my couch now is...quite impressive. Good luck getting everything taken care of Peter, I send you and the good doctor my best wishes.
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  #21  
Old May 12th, 2006, 2:20 PM
JimLely JimLely is offline
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Peter,


What happened to the policy of sending out the HO with the bad driver given the understanding that the good driver would be eventually shipped for an owner install?

Jim
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  #22  
Old May 12th, 2006, 3:37 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Good afternoon Jim,

I would rather not send out any more VTF-3 HO's with the non-optimal driver unless someone really really feels the need to have one. There will be extra expense for us for each non-optimal unit that gets sent out. Also, there are other reasons too, expect something a bit different

Sincerely,
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  #23  
Old May 13th, 2006, 9:11 AM
JimLely JimLely is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks
Good afternoon Jim,

I Also, there are other reasons too, expect something a bit different

Sincerely,
Hi Peter,

Could you be a bit less cryptic? Do you mean that it would not be a simple swap of drivers?

Jim
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  #24  
Old May 13th, 2006, 9:45 AM
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There has also been some talk about a possible amp "switch" as well, I wonder if this can be verified? Sounds like things aren't going as planned.
JP
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  #25  
Old May 13th, 2006, 12:59 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Yes, at a minimum expect some significant changes to both the driver and the amplifier of the VTF-3 HO. That is one reason why I would rather not send out more of the existing units. In my opinion, the route that we are going now is much better than where we would be going had we not made these changes! As for timeframe, that is not concrete, but I do not think that turnaround time should be too much longer (hopefully within the next 1-2 months).

Sincerely,
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  #26  
Old May 13th, 2006, 1:43 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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One more thing that I would like to add is that we will recommend that current HO owners ship their entire subwoofer back to us, at our expense, when the VTF-3 HO is ready in a more optimal form. I believe that this will be the best way to make all the changes that we want to make.
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  #27  
Old May 13th, 2006, 2:27 PM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Thanks Peter,


That was more info in a couple days than we have gotten in months. Keep us posted and I must say your expect something different statement really makes this exciting. What could be different turn the driver around backwords? Just kidding.

Thanks,

Jeff
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  #28  
Old May 13th, 2006, 6:02 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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I appreciate the thoughtful comments Jeff! It is exciting for us too! Hopefully in a few weeks we will know more quantitatively about how the optimal version compares to the non-optimal version!

Have a wonderful night
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  #29  
Old May 13th, 2006, 6:53 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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And before I forget, I would like to add that not only will we recommend returning the main VTF-3 HO units back to us, but also returning the turbocharger units so that we can inspect them and make sure everything is ok. When we examined some of the turbochargers from the first run that are still sitting in our labs, we noticed that there were some undesireable gaps in some of them.
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  #30  
Old May 13th, 2006, 7:03 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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While I am at it, I might as well let you all know that the first run of VTF-3 HO's also had mistuned enclosures. Tuning was ~18Hz instead of ~16Hz that we wanted in extended bass mode.

I hope this helps!
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  #31  
Old May 13th, 2006, 7:08 PM
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Well I have to say your customer support is awesome. I find it had to believe that in a world where it takes a car dealership 6 months to replace a screw that they lost, a small (but great) electronics shop will go to these lengths to take care of its customers!

I'm looking forward to buying my second HOw/T from you sometime towards the end of this year.
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  #32  
Old May 13th, 2006, 7:21 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Thank you very much, Backlash! It is always a pleasure catering to the needs of such gracious customers such as yourself!
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  #33  
Old May 13th, 2006, 7:33 PM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHixson
That was more info in a couple days than we have gotten in months.

Agreed! A little information goes a long way! Please keep it coming Peter when you know anything more. I never thought my room would be done before I needed the sub, but I'm starting to wonder....????
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  #34  
Old May 14th, 2006, 9:05 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks
While I am at it, I might as well let you all know that the first run of VTF-3 HO's also had mistuned enclosures. Tuning was ~18Hz instead of ~16Hz that we wanted in extended bass mode.

I hope this helps!
Wow, Peter, sounds like there were many things to tweak. I am excited to hear what the truly finished product will sound like. Personally, I want to see a unit comes out that really spanks its percieved competition.

And don't rush. Just because we're anxious on the forums here, doesn't mean we want you to not take the time to do things right.

PS: Did I mention that this thing already sounds amazing?
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  #35  
Old May 14th, 2006, 1:08 PM
JimLely JimLely is offline
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Hi Peter,


Thanks very much for your openness and candor on this most delicate subject. I'm confident that the final product will exceed all expectations.

Regards,

Jim
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  #36  
Old May 14th, 2006, 4:09 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Thank you very much Jon and Jim, we hope you all will be happy with the product!
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  #37  
Old May 15th, 2006, 5:28 AM
J.Royce Baron J.Royce Baron is offline
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As a prospective future client following this saga from the announcement date, it saddens me to read the update.

Conspiracy at every turn? How in heavens name can a design plan go so wrong in almost every parameter at this late stage?

In the corporate world heads would roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks
Alas, my opinion on Dr. Hsu having one hand tied behind his back over the past few years is based on a few different observations and occurrences during that time period. Some things that I know about would really shock you guys.


No surprise here, merely gives a true insight to the competitions business practices and possible patents infringements.

While visiting another forum, the president of the company declares: " oh how I will be saying more. this sub will be The King Of Bass for sure... I'm done taking prisoners. The gloves are off and we are going to show the world what we can do in the genre

In the end I hope the good Dr.’s vision is fully realized, lessons will have been learned, and hopefully more aggressive strategies will be employed.

Meanwhile I'll look forward to Christmas, by then hopefully all the issues have been resolved / professional reviewers have had their say and user feedback should be well documented.
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  #38  
Old May 15th, 2006, 10:46 AM
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Personally, I'm starting to lose a lot of faith in the QA process for HSU. Sorry but as a potential customer the recent news does not give me a warm and cozy feeling that HSU knows what it's doing. Sorry.
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  #39  
Old May 15th, 2006, 11:19 AM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB
Personally, I'm starting to lose a lot of faith in the QA process for HSU. Sorry but as a potential customer the recent news does not give me a warm and cozy feeling that HSU knows what it's doing. Sorry.
But at least they are a company that is trying to make everything right for everyone. The could have said nothing and not fixed the original ones they shipped. They may have had a problem but as a company are trying to do the right thing for it's customers.
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  #40  
Old May 15th, 2006, 12:22 PM
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Rotel had a similar situation a few years ago with the RSP-1066 pre amp. They introduced it after trying to be fair to their customers and get the specs and word out early. When it was released it had problems that were fixed by software upgrades, and some board changes or even customer being told how to solder their units to fix things that were introduced and corrected in later uniut months after the initial introcduction of the unit. This was the price people like myself paid for being early adopters of a new unit. The difference is that Rotel left early adopters stuck while all the people who waited and bought 6 months later received units that were perfect out the door.

Hsu is standing behind their products and taking a big hit in the pocket to tell users to ship units back at their expense that are not up to spec. Every company I know would have just introduced the changes to the enclosure and driver without ever telling people there was a problem in production. How many of us right now have equipment that isn't up to spec and we don't know it. This is why you always see disclaimers on spec sheets that a manufacturer is allowed to make changes at anytime without notice to the customer. This means they can make a change and as a current owner they don't have to implement the change in your unit.

Hsu is handling the situation in a first class manner and yes they realize it's a hit to their QA reputaion on one side and a boost to thier customer service reputation on the other. I only wish all companies were this honest and stood behind their products and customers this well.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 3:38 PM
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I agree with everyone, this is unfortunate. I've sat back and watched the whole VTF-HO product roll-out and been surprised by the timelines and setbacks. It seems that certain things could not be avoided, but perhaps others could have been (an old coach of mine used to say: there are good excuses and bad excuses, but in the end they are all excuses - which is harsh but correct. ) There is a comment on another forum by someone who is well respected that suggested that part of this new "issue" is simply that the HO (before the "updates") simply doesn't raise the bar in performance to be competitive with the new offerings by various companies. I would hate to think that the good Dr. missed on estimating the performance & price points needed to be competitive in the etailers subwoofer market. Hopefully Hsu can "come back" from this set back in the hearts and minds of customers.
JP
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  #42  
Old May 15th, 2006, 4:36 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB
Personally, I'm starting to lose a lot of faith in the QA process for HSU. Sorry but as a potential customer the recent news does not give me a warm and cozy feeling that HSU knows what it's doing. Sorry.
I really don't know what to say, Drew. We are trying our best to rectify the situation. Design-wise, we really know what we are doing. The next part is construction, and we are working on that part.

Sincerely,
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  #43  
Old May 15th, 2006, 4:46 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zora
I agree with everyone, this is unfortunate. I've sat back and watched the whole VTF-HO product roll-out and been surprised by the timelines and setbacks. It seems that certain things could not be avoided, but perhaps others could have been (an old coach of mine used to say: there are good excuses and bad excuses, but in the end they are all excuses - which is harsh but correct. ) There is a comment on another forum by someone who is well respected that suggested that part of this new "issue" is simply that the HO (before the "updates") simply doesn't raise the bar in performance to be competitive with the new offerings by various companies. I would hate to think that the good Dr. missed on estimating the performance & price points needed to be competitive in the etailers subwoofer market. Hopefully Hsu can "come back" from this set back in the hearts and minds of customers.
JP
I can honestly assure you, JP, that these delays had absolutely nothing to do with what is out or coming out from the competition. The first run driver was not designed/constructed as we wanted it. Also, for a couple reasons that I will probably touch upon in a few weeks, the amplifier needed to be modified. The tuning frequency in extended bass mode was also not as we wanted it with the first run. Some of the turbochargers had some gaps in them. All these factors ended up affecting headroom at all frequencies, in the low/mid/upper bass.

Almost from the very first day that the VTF-3 HO's started shipping in very limited quantities, we knew that the driver was a problem (note that Dr. Hsu was sick and at home that whole week, and was not able to inspect or test anything at that time). As we investigated the situation more, we noticed various other issues that needed to be corrected. All in all, we have shipped out very few HO's, knowing that performance was not optimal. These people deserve nothing but the best that we can offer them, especially since they were the first to try out the new product.
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  #44  
Old May 15th, 2006, 8:17 PM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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For what it's worth, I'm silly excited.

Why you ask? When this all sounds so negative?

Let me explain. I'm no fanboy; I tell it how I see it. There is a lot of negativity here, so let me lend my positive voice to the discussion.

So...why do I feel positive about this? Because I have one of these subs in my room, and I have to say along with my HD projector, it makes the biggest difference and most significant contribution to both the first impressions of friends and to my my long-term enjoyment. I thought my UFW-10 was a sweet little sub. I had no idea what I was missing out on.

Now, I hear that this sub, which I think sounds fantastic (as long as I didn't push the driver too hard), is going to get even better...free of charge to me? I'm giddy like a school girl.

Would it have been nice to have things in A+ order first off? Sure. But, do you hear any of us current owners complaining? I cannot find fault with how Hsu is dealing with the issue. They are being a class act, and frankly, I think they're telling this peanut gallery of people too much information - just look at the backlash. We're mad we don't get enough info...okay now we're mad about the info we got. What a catch-22 for Hsu. Peter: it sucks to be you guys dealing with this, I have to say.

Now, to put things in perspective, let's remember that this beast has already performed excellently in Craig's test on Audioholics, for less money than the Ultra. And now it's getting improved. Whatever the circumstances, let's not forget that.

Also - don't forget the fact that these defects are being noted and corrected are an indication of the high QA standards at Hsu - I'm sure they're putting the smack down on their production contractors or whomever. I feel better knowing that they pay attention and care enough to fix it. I don't think every company would handle it in the same way.

That is why I am a happy customer right now. I think one of the greatest signs of maturity and wisdom is to admit when you've made a mistake and work to correct it. While I don't want to misconstrue that Dr. Hsu made a "mistake" directly, he's still taking responsibility and taking action.

A class act indeed.

(okay rant off...it's late...hence my compulsive keyboard vomiting sorry)

Last edited by JonnyOzero3 : May 15th, 2006 at 8:44 PM.
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Old May 16th, 2006, 5:50 AM
DrewB DrewB is offline
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Quote:
I really don't know what to say, Drew. We are trying our best to rectify the situation. Design-wise, we really know what we are doing. The next part is construction, and we are working on that part.
No worries Peter...perhaps my email was too dramatic...let's blame it on Monday morning blues, shall we?

If you guys are pulling back the HO despite the very positive things that Craigsub and JJ had to say...then I'm willing to wait another month or two to really see what you guys really have up your sleeves!
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  #46  
Old May 16th, 2006, 6:01 AM
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Ditto

The two components of my system that matter most are the HD TV & the sub. The HO sounds great, actually it "feels" great. I'm very happy with what I've got. If HSU wants to take it back and make it even better that's fine with me. I can live without a sub for a few days.

That they are conscientious enough to go to this trouble is commendable.

Hood
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Old May 16th, 2006, 8:33 PM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyOzero3
For what it's worth, I'm silly excited.

Why you ask? When this all sounds so negative?

Let me explain. I'm no fanboy; I tell it how I see it. There is a lot of negativity here, so let me lend my positive voice to the discussion.

So...why do I feel positive about this? Because I have one of these subs in my room, and I have to say along with my HD projector, it makes the biggest difference and most significant contribution to both the first impressions of friends and to my my long-term enjoyment. I thought my UFW-10 was a sweet little sub. I had no idea what I was missing out on.

Now, I hear that this sub, which I think sounds fantastic (as long as I didn't push the driver too hard), is going to get even better...free of charge to me? I'm giddy like a school girl.

Would it have been nice to have things in A+ order first off? Sure. But, do you hear any of us current owners complaining? I cannot find fault with how Hsu is dealing with the issue. They are being a class act, and frankly, I think they're telling this peanut gallery of people too much information - just look at the backlash. We're mad we don't get enough info...okay now we're mad about the info we got. What a catch-22 for Hsu. Peter: it sucks to be you guys dealing with this, I have to say.

Now, to put things in perspective, let's remember that this beast has already performed excellently in Craig's test on Audioholics, for less money than the Ultra. And now it's getting improved. Whatever the circumstances, let's not forget that.

Also - don't forget the fact that these defects are being noted and corrected are an indication of the high QA standards at Hsu - I'm sure they're putting the smack down on their production contractors or whomever. I feel better knowing that they pay attention and care enough to fix it. I don't think every company would handle it in the same way.

That is why I am a happy customer right now. I think one of the greatest signs of maturity and wisdom is to admit when you've made a mistake and work to correct it. While I don't want to misconstrue that Dr. Hsu made a "mistake" directly, he's still taking responsibility and taking action.

A class act indeed.

(okay rant off...it's late...hence my compulsive keyboard vomiting sorry)
I agree with what you said..... but you're missing something. You have your HO, and most of us don't.

I'm just so freakin excited to get it. I've never owned a sub before. This will be the first one and I'm just fired up to get it and enjoy.

As for the people griping about info, I welcome all the information that Peter provides. I might not always like the answer, but I'd rather be informed and a bit unhappy, than uninformed and upset. Being uninformed means your mind wanders, rumors start, etc.... I think some/most of us here have a right to be informed since a good number of us have ordered/pre-ordered this sub. We're committing $800-900 for this beast and to me, keeping us informed is part of the whole customer service experience.

Once again, Thanks Peter for the information a few posts back. Please keep it coming as new things come up!
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  #48  
Old May 17th, 2006, 9:08 AM
JimLely JimLely is offline
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As they say: "The truth will set you free."
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Old May 17th, 2006, 9:56 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrodshook
I agree with what you said..... but you're missing something. You have your HO, and most of us don't.

I'm just so freakin excited to get it. I've never owned a sub before. This will be the first one and I'm just fired up to get it and enjoy.

As for the people griping about info, I welcome all the information that Peter provides. I might not always like the answer, but I'd rather be informed and a bit unhappy, than uninformed and upset. Being uninformed means your mind wanders, rumors start, etc.... I think some/most of us here have a right to be informed since a good number of us have ordered/pre-ordered this sub. We're committing $800-900 for this beast and to me, keeping us informed is part of the whole customer service experience.

Once again, Thanks Peter for the information a few posts back. Please keep it coming as new things come up!
Yes, good point I just wanted to show that not everyone feels that the situation is gruesomely unbearable.

I agree about the info as well - I'd rather know what is going on. Maybe that's why i'm so pleased - pleased with the honesty and the effort to make corrections. Besides the construction QA issue (which i of course agree, needs to be addressed), I think this should be viewed in a positive manner from the customer's perspective.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 10:03 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLely
As they say: "The truth will set you free."
So will a set of lockpicks.
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  #51  
Old May 18th, 2006, 2:43 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Laughing out loud @ Jon, that was a good one!

Want to hear more about the VTF HO? I have decided to keep quiet for now, because I am looking forward to surprising all of you! Eventually I would like to take you all through the thought process--start to finish--of the initial design ideas for use on the VTF HO, to the design in final form.
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Old May 19th, 2006, 3:00 AM
RatFarm RatFarm is offline
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And I thought you were going to announce that HSU has bought Adaire! I'm glad that my pre-order number hasn't shipped yet. Maybe there has been changes other than just the driver....
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Old May 21st, 2006, 3:40 PM
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Can't wait for my HO but I'm hoping that this revamp will include dsp and eq by lyretech (talked about on the aussie hsu website in 2005) to the amp!!!! I know its a long shot but we can dream!!!

Josh
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  #54  
Old May 22nd, 2006, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk
Can't wait for my HO but I'm hoping that this revamp will include dsp and eq by lyretech (talked about on the aussie hsu website in 2005) to the amp!!!! I know its a long shot but we can dream!!!

Josh
Wow - that would be nice, but probably not in the cards just yet. Would be a nice suprise though.
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Old May 30th, 2006, 6:29 AM
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Well, we're coming up on June. Any crumbs to keep the faithful going Peter?
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Old May 30th, 2006, 12:48 PM
RatFarm RatFarm is offline
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This has to be one of the most prolonged and botched up product launch I've seen from any 'professional' company.
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Old May 30th, 2006, 2:52 PM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Nice thread crap.
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Old May 30th, 2006, 4:48 PM
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Well I'm in the market for a new sub in the next few months and this news has got me quite interested in waiting to see the new subs roll out before I make any decisions. What I'm seeing here is a bit of a S.N.A.F.U. on a manufacturing side that is being rectified by the design side. Tough to do these days (damage control is difficult) but it is impressive to see it is being done. I look forward to seeing the new improved product roll out.
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Old May 30th, 2006, 5:45 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Dear Drew,

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB
Well, we're coming up on June. Any crumbs to keep the faithful going Peter?
There is some promising news! The newest driver for the VTF-3 HO is really excellent! Much more linear BL curve than the first run driver (we are still using XBL^2 TM linear BL motor technology licensed from Adire Audio, and the new driver has an extremely linear BL curve), verified XMAX > 20mm (one-way of course), much lower inductance than the first run driver, much lower distortion than the first run driver! We are very excited about some of the preliminary results, Dr. Hsu as much if not more so than anyone else. Enclosure mistuning will be fixed so that extended bass mode has a true 16Hz tuning. The subwoofer should no longer suffer from any popping noises, and driver should not bottom out either. This is all thanks to the refinements proposed by Dr Hsu, who basically figured out everything all by himself! The amplifiers for the VTF-3 HO are not quite ready, but when they are ready we will do more quantitative and qualitative analysis and let you know how it goes.

Thank you all for hanging in there. The wait may be another month or two, but we are trying our best and are getting closer to getting the product in your hands in a form that we are very happy with and I'm sure you all will be happy with too!

Sincerely,
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Old May 31st, 2006, 7:27 AM
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Thanks Peter

I, for one, am more than willing to wait for the final triple checked version of the '3HO. In fact, I would prefer to receive my pair with all the latest changes made at the factory. Two months, 3 months: not a problem.

The pre-order promotion on this excellent product had me posting frequently on various forums several months ago. I feel confident that the finished product will be well worth the wait.
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Old May 31st, 2006, 9:11 AM
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Thanks for the update Peter. This will be HSU's flagship product so we're all looking for a great product. Cheers.
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Old May 31st, 2006, 11:10 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Great to hear Peter, thank you for the info.
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Old May 31st, 2006, 1:08 PM
jbhungvt jbhungvt is offline
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Smile Sounds Good

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy
Thanks Peter

I, for one, am more than willing to wait for the final triple checked version of the '3HO. In fact, I would prefer to receive my pair with all the latest changes made at the factory. Two months, 3 months: not a problem.

The pre-order promotion on this excellent product had me posting frequently on various forums several months ago. I feel confident that the finished product will be well worth the wait.
As long as the product is good, I can wait also. couple months wait for me is not a problem since I have a VTF-3MKII right now
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Old May 31st, 2006, 6:17 PM
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I'm happy to wait for everything to be ironed out and salute the company for standing up during a difficult rollout. From what Peter spoke to about drivers and amps it's all good. Of course, having a pair of originals (#01002 and 01017) to keep the beat going during the retooling does not hurt, either. I'm sorry that Craigsub's testing will have to wait, but maybe the embers of the flame wars will die out a bit. The silence on that end of things has been golden...
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Old May 31st, 2006, 7:20 PM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Is craig even going to be around to do more testing? I heard he was out of the internet audio forum scene after all the bs he's witnessed.
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Old May 31st, 2006, 10:09 PM
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I hope not. He always seems to come back. I don't always agree with his results, but I still love reading his comparisons.
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Old June 2nd, 2006, 6:14 PM
jmprader jmprader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyOzero3
Is craig even going to be around to do more testing? I heard he was out of the internet audio forum scene after all the bs he's witnessed.
I hope he's just taking a break. Since one or more of the most rancorous despots/detractors have been banned several stateside forums, I hope that Craig's not having to deal with sniping on a minute by minute basis will make it easier for him to politely provide opinion and the conditions under which such opinion was formed...then everyone can have a cordial discussion and debate.

I am also hopeful that said "despots" are reforming their manner of engagement (or just their manners....). Some are quite intelligent and capable of doing better for the industry.
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Old June 8th, 2006, 6:58 AM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Just buming this thread it has been awhile without any news
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Old June 8th, 2006, 8:34 AM
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Well, this may not be the news most of you are waiting for, however, Craig Chase is alive and well and posting at AVS.

As far as '3HO news, it has been about 10 days since Peter noted that it would be "another month or two" till the '3HO's are shipping again.

I would not expect another update till the end of June.
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Old June 11th, 2006, 12:46 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Unfortunately nothing more to report on VTF-3 HO, JHixson, but we do have a prototype of the MBM-12 nearfield midbass module (idea discussed in one of the patents pending)! Also, we hope to have our new HB-1 ported horn bookshelves ready for sale within three months.

Sincerely,
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Old June 11th, 2006, 3:48 PM
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Hi guys ... Yes, I am doing the Maestro review now, as I promised Mike Dzurko in January that I would. I would also be happy to do an update with the VTF-3 HO when the new driver/amp combo is delivered, if there is any interest.

My primary reason for getting out if this is the overall lack of interest in anything but these "numbers only" thread/reviews.

Without listening tests, a review is pretty much meaningless. Yet, that seems to be the direction. If all anyone wants is numbers, AVTalk is a great source.

Thanks for the kind words, and I hope all is well with Dr. Hsu and company.
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Old June 12th, 2006, 9:14 AM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
I would also be happy to do an update with the VTF-3 HO when the new driver/amp combo is delivered, if there is any interest.


Craig I think there is a lot of interest. I think the interested are for the most part the silent majority and not as active as some of the distractors. I like oppinions and I am sure I will have my own but yours has more meaning as you have heard the different subs.

Jeff
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Old June 12th, 2006, 3:34 PM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Of course I would enjoy reading some impressions...!

/silent
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Old June 13th, 2006, 6:04 AM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks
Unfortunately nothing more to report on VTF-3 HO, JHixson, but we do have a prototype of the MBM-12 nearfield midbass module (idea discussed in one of the patents pending)! Also, we hope to have our new HB-1 ported horn bookshelves ready for sale within three months.

Sincerely,
I'm trying my best to not sound negative, but I'd love to hear about a product that has been on sale for many, many months, people have paid money for and has already shipped.... the 3HO. It's nice that other products are being developed and introduced, but is work on these products taking away from resolving the 3HO issues? Maybe I'm wanting too much, but with all the buzz surrounding the HO for the past year or two, and some major problems that popped up once it shipped, I would think there should be daily progress on resolving the issues, whether the issue lies with Hsu, Adire, China, whoever..... I would think this should be Hsu's top priority. Is the updated driver finished? Is it being manufactured right now? Is it done and on a boat? Is the amp updated? Being built? Already built? Is Hsu assembling any completed subs yet? What is the current estimate for shipping?

Once again, I don't want to be negative and have no plans to cancel my pre-order and buy something else. I called Hsu in early May and was told that mine would ship in June, no problem. When I questioned that, the lady told me the problems were identified and being fixed, and that it would ship in June. I didn't believe it then and it appears I'm right, although there's still a couple weeks left. I've been told March, then April, then May, then June....
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Old June 13th, 2006, 7:01 AM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Good morning Jerrod,

There shouldn't be any more performance issues with the VTF-3 HO. The amplifier is still not quite ready yet. We are also in the process of ramping up production of the driver as well. These things take some time, and I'm very sorry that you all have had to wait so long. Hopefully things will go much smoother moving forward.

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  #76  
Old June 13th, 2006, 11:29 AM
Dr_Hsu Dr_Hsu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrodshook
I'm trying my best to not sound negative, but I'd love to hear about a product that has been on sale for many, many months, people have paid money for and has already shipped.... the 3HO. It's nice that other products are being developed and introduced, but is work on these products taking away from resolving the 3HO issues? Maybe I'm wanting too much, but with all the buzz surrounding the HO for the past year or two, and some major problems that popped up once it shipped, I would think there should be daily progress on resolving the issues, whether the issue lies with Hsu, Adire, China, whoever..... I would think this should be Hsu's top priority. Is the updated driver finished? Is it being manufactured right now? Is it done and on a boat? Is the amp updated? Being built? Already built? Is Hsu assembling any completed subs yet? What is the current estimate for shipping?

Once again, I don't want to be negative and have no plans to cancel my pre-order and buy something else. I called Hsu in early May and was told that mine would ship in June, no problem. When I questioned that, the lady told me the problems were identified and being fixed, and that it would ship in June. I didn't believe it then and it appears I'm right, although there's still a couple weeks left. I've been told March, then April, then May, then June....
I apologize for the delay, and greatly appreciate your patience. We have finally got the HO the way we wanted it to be, and have approved it for full production. However, it still takes 30 days for them to get it built, and then they still need to ship them over. We are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...
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Old June 13th, 2006, 12:02 PM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu
I apologize for the delay, and greatly appreciate your patience. We have finally got the HO the way we wanted it to be, and have approved it for full production. However, it still takes 30 days for them to get it built, and then they still need to ship them over. We are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...
Thank you very much for your response. I think it speaks volumes about your company that the owner takes the time to respond to posts in this forum!

So it sounds like late July would be a somewhat realistic date to see some of these starting to ship to people?
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Old June 13th, 2006, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrodshook
Thank you very much for your response. I think it speaks volumes about your company that the owner takes the time to respond to posts in this forum!

So it sounds like late July would be a somewhat realistic date to see some of these starting to ship to people?
Yes, I would certainly hope that late July is a realistic date.
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Old June 29th, 2006, 8:09 AM
rushwj rushwj is offline
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what about those of us waiting on the replacement drivers for the HO's we already have? anybody hear any word on this? I'm anxiously awaiting mine so that i can watch some hard hitting movies without that horrible "popping" or "cracking" sound that my sub makes w/ certain effects!
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Old June 29th, 2006, 9:30 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Where do you have your gain set? You should probably reduce the gain a smidge if you're getting those pops....I believe Hsu said 8:30-9:00 max.

When I have my set as such, I have to push it very hard to get it to pop. But I don't usually listen over 100db, so it's not normally a problem for me.
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Old June 29th, 2006, 7:11 PM
jmprader jmprader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyOzero3
Where do you have your gain set? You should probably reduce the gain a smidge if you're getting those pops....I believe Hsu said 8:30-9:00 max.

When I have my set as such, I have to push it very hard to get it to pop. But I don't usually listen over 100db, so it's not normally a problem for me.
Ditto that. However, what I have noticed is that during the few times my drivers have "popped", it has been with specific program material. The most difficult piece was Flight of the Phoenix during the sandstorm. From time to time I've had experienced a few glitches, but not many. It has never happened on audio only material, CD/DVD-A/SACD, just DVD movies.

Of course, I treat my ears a little more tenderly at 51 (most of the time)...if you are still enjoying your youth and breaking your eardrums in , or if you have a huge room...well that's a different set of issues.
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Old July 4th, 2006, 9:57 AM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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My old sub died need my HO. I realize July just started but is there any new news?
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  #83  
Old July 6th, 2006, 2:00 PM
iiwane iiwane is offline
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I was told it won't be for another three months by customer service. I am decently high on the wait list.
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  #84  
Old July 6th, 2006, 5:19 PM
xcjago xcjago is offline
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Three more months!?!?!?
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Old July 6th, 2006, 5:44 PM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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They have been saying end of July up till now.
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Old July 7th, 2006, 4:27 AM
J.Royce Baron J.Royce Baron is offline
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Bought two VTF–3 MK2 over the last 10 days – the space is 4200 ^3 heavily treated with bass traps with the sweet spot being 14’ from the screen – I’m partial to the stereo sub set up (sub off-no LFE connection) where the pair anchors its dedicated main in the HT section of the space.

The fact that I reside in Toronto coupled with the uncertainty of the HO timeline it may very well be next summer / fall before they arrive in Canada.

On the WOTW 3 db hot, the stereo pair did massage the seat in the sweet spot – I await further improvements with the implementation of the Turbo.
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Old July 7th, 2006, 4:42 AM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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When I was looking at what sub to buy I had decided on the VTF-3 MK2 and then I heard about the HO and it was only a little more with the preorder pricing even got approval from the wife who I do not think realizes the actual size but I showed her a picture. Well that was last December and then I did not place the order until early January. At the time I said it doesn't matter if I have to wait I still have my old 10 inch sub and I can live even though people say a certain seen has awsome base and I hear nothing because the thing is tuned to high. Well it broke this week and now I am getting a little more desperate. I have good mains but for bass they are only -3 at 40Hz so not bad for music but not quite there in movies. I would like a reply to the three month post above because I will order a new amp for the old sub if it is going to be three months.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 1:57 PM
JimLely JimLely is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHixson
When I was looking at what sub to buy I had decided on the VTF-3 MK2 and then I heard about the HO and it was only a little more with the preorder pricing even got approval from the wife who I do not think realizes the actual size but I showed her a picture. Well that was last December and then I did not place the order until early January. At the time I said it doesn't matter if I have to wait I still have my old 10 inch sub and I can live even though people say a certain seen has awsome base and I hear nothing because the thing is tuned to high. Well it broke this week and now I am getting a little more desperate. I have good mains but for bass they are only -3 at 40Hz so not bad for music but not quite there in movies. I would like a reply to the three month post above because I will order a new amp for the old sub if it is going to be three months.
Maybe you can purchase one of the "sub-optimal" VTF-3HOs until the perfected VTF-3HOs arrives, then swap. Hsu Research had been doing this for awhile.

Jim
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Old July 12th, 2006, 5:09 AM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Is there anyone that can verify the three month wait mentioned above. If it is true I will buy a new Amp for my dead sub. If we are looking at a few weeks I will just wait.
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  #90  
Old July 12th, 2006, 7:30 AM
ScoobyDufus ScoobyDufus is offline
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Can Peter or Dr. Hsu please confirm if there really is (or is not) an extended delay from the previous expectation of shipping around the end of July? If so, I believe the pre-order customers should be hearing this directly from the company rather than to rely on rumors on the forum.
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Old July 12th, 2006, 9:16 AM
KFB KFB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDufus
Can Peter or Dr. Hsu please confirm if there really is (or is not) an extended delay from the previous expectation of shipping around the end of July? If so, I believe the pre-order customers should be hearing this directly from the company rather than to rely on rumors on the forum.
From Peter in a post from yesterday....

That said, with use of a turbocharger, I would suspect that most of the people who use the VTF-3 in maximum output mode would actually prefer extended bass mode since port turbulence-related noise would be very minimal even when approaching maximum output levels. Now it is up to us to provide these units to consumers, although I am sorry to say that there is still some waiting to be done (but hopefully not too much longer).
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  #92  
Old July 12th, 2006, 9:41 AM
DrewB DrewB is offline
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If Mark Seaton's upcoming sealed sub beats the HO to market then HSU will lose a lot of customers. We shall see...
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  #93  
Old July 12th, 2006, 11:33 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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I thought Seaton's was more expensive...I might be wrong though. I'll have to go look....
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  #94  
Old July 12th, 2006, 3:30 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Mark Seaton's upcoming balanced force dual driver sealed subwoofer is certainly quite a lot different in design than the VTF-3 HO! For those with a budget of around $2k, I would strongly recommend that they check out his product. He is a very nice guy, and you all would do well to support his company and other relatively new companies. Small and up-and-coming companies really need your support in order to grow. Of course, we are a small company too, just not newly formed!

Sincerely,
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Old July 12th, 2006, 4:42 PM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Peter,

There's quite a few posts lately about an additional 3 month delay. Can you provide an update?
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  #96  
Old July 12th, 2006, 5:43 PM
Hulk Hulk is offline
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I called last week and was told that it would be between 3-6 months before I get mine.
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Old July 12th, 2006, 6:07 PM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I called last week and was told that it would be between 3-6 months before I get mine.
Ouch! When did you order yours?
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Old July 12th, 2006, 6:23 PM
Hulk Hulk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHixson
Ouch! When did you order yours?
I placed my order in April
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Old July 12th, 2006, 6:24 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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To be quite frank, Jerrod, I really don't know when shipping will start. I don't feel comfortable giving any estimates until the product is actually ready to ship! It appears that people are being told three months or more simply because we do not want to underestimate ship date yet again. Personally, I would rather not give any estimate at all right now, because there is no 100% confidence factor. That said, I am really really pushing Dr. Hsu to do some things that will be to all of your benefit. We will see what happens.
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Old July 12th, 2006, 6:57 PM
JHixson JHixson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I placed my order in April
I wonder how many are on preorder total. I ordered mine early January after procastinating over the holidays.
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  #101  
Old July 12th, 2006, 7:30 PM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks
To be quite frank, Jerrod, I really don't know when shipping will start. I don't feel comfortable giving any estimates until the product is actually ready to ship! It appears that people are being told three months or more simply because we do not want to underestimate ship date yet again. Personally, I would rather not give any estimate at all right now, because there is no 100% confidence factor. That said, I am really really pushing Dr. Hsu to do some things that will be to all of your benefit. We will see what happens.
Thanks for the info, Peter. Something for our benefit? I'm game Can you give any hints? I bet if you dropped a tidbit we could be busy discussing it for a few days....it'd make a nice diversonary tactic
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Old July 13th, 2006, 7:38 AM
jerrodshook jerrodshook is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks
To be quite frank, Jerrod, I really don't know when shipping will start. I don't feel comfortable giving any estimates until the product is actually ready to ship! It appears that people are being told three months or more simply because we do not want to underestimate ship date yet again. Personally, I would rather not give any estimate at all right now, because there is no 100% confidence factor. That said, I am really really pushing Dr. Hsu to do some things that will be to all of your benefit. We will see what happens.
Peter,
Dr. Hsu stated 1 month ago that the HO was "approved for full production" and that it takes 30 days to build so that's what I assumed. Is this no longer the case? It sounds like it.... If it was, the first round of "new" HO's should be built and ready to ship.

If you can't give me an estimate, at least give me an idea on what is happening? Is something still being re-designed? Are they being built now? Surely you have to know what the status is.

I just can't understand this. I'm doing all I can to give Hsu my money, but my HT is nearing completion and I doubt I'm going to wait much longer.
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Old July 13th, 2006, 5:10 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyOzero3
Thanks for the info, Peter. Something for our benefit? I'm game Can you give any hints? I bet if you dropped a tidbit we could be busy discussing it for a few days....it'd make a nice diversonary tactic
Sure Jonny, but would you willing to sign an NDA? Just kidding (I don't think we've ever asked anyone to sign an NDA) . This is just a nice plan that I came up with, and proposed to Dr. Hsu a few weeks back. Stay tuned!
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  #104  
Old July 13th, 2006, 5:16 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Dear jerrod,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrodshook
Peter,
Dr. Hsu stated 1 month ago that the HO was "approved for full production" and that it takes 30 days to build so that's what I assumed. Is this no longer the case? It sounds like it.... If it was, the first round of "new" HO's should be built and ready to ship.

If you can't give me an estimate, at least give me an idea on what is happening? Is something still being re-designed? Are they being built now? Surely you have to know what the status is.

I just can't understand this. I'm doing all I can to give Hsu my money, but my HT is nearing completion and I doubt I'm going to wait much longer.
As far as I know, the first batch (quantity unknown to me) of "revised" XBL^2 (tm) drivers have already been shipped to our offices. So we are waiting for the parts to arrive. We will still naturally need to have more enclosures/ports/amplifiers built and sent to us in order to fill newer orders. Shipping to our offices sometimes takes a few weeks. I wish I could provide a concrete timeframe for everyone, but there is no 100% confidence factor.
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Old July 13th, 2006, 6:11 PM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Marcks
Sure Jonny, but would you willing to sign an NDA? Just kidding (I don't think we've ever asked anyone to sign an NDA) . This is just a nice plan that I came up with, and proposed to Dr. Hsu a few weeks back. Stay tuned!
Pssst....Peter, meet me at the corner of Palm and Rose. I'll bring the pen....

Last edited by JonnyOzero3 : July 16th, 2006 at 10:28 PM.
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  #106  
Old July 14th, 2006, 5:49 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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Laughing out loud @ Jonny! The pen is mightier than the sword, no doubt!
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  #107  
Old November 29th, 2006, 12:37 PM
DrewB DrewB is offline
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Quote:
Want to hear more about the VTF HO? I have decided to keep quiet for now, because I am looking forward to surprising all of you! Eventually I would like to take you all through the thought process--start to finish--of the initial design ideas for use on the VTF HO, to the design in final form.
Quote:
Alas, my opinion on Dr. Hsu having one hand tied behind his back over the past few years is based on a few different observations and occurrences during that time period. Some things that I know about would really shock you guys. Fortunately, thanks in large part to Dr. Hsu's perseverance, we have resolved some of these issues.
Peter, did you ever spill the beans on the above. I know we're all giddy with our new beloved VTF-HO's but I was just curious.
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Old November 29th, 2006, 7:18 PM
Pete_Hsu Pete_Hsu is offline
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I'm not yet ready to talk about it, Drew
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  #109  
Old November 30th, 2006, 8:01 AM
JonnyOzero3 JonnyOzero3 is offline
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What if I offer you a beer?
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