Which operating mode do you run your VTF-15H in?

[kinggimp]

Which operating mode do you run your VTF-15H in?

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi Andrew,

In our demo room, we are running with both ports open/EQ2/Q = 0.3 .

Some time back I played around with various operating modes, and I liked all of them, with subtle strengths and weaknesses between the different modes depending on what program material was played and how loud it was played.

This thread is now a sticky

Sincerely,

[Sputter]

LOL 3 votes and 3 different answers.

[kinggimp]

Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu

Hi Andrew,

In our demo room, we are running with both ports open/EQ2/Q = 0.3 .

Some time back I played around with various operating modes, and I liked all of them, with subtle strengths and weaknesses between the different modes depending on what program material was played and how loud it was played.

This thread is now a sticky

Sincerely,

What kind of bass extension do you get running the sub in that mode?

[Pete_Hsu]

We get flat in-room response down to 16Hz with those settings!!! Our room is ~ 33 ft. deep, so there is a strong room mode close to 16Hz...

[serge71]

Interesting trhead and poll!!...just voted...Q 0.5.....EQ2... one port open...i made some changes in my room lately and all i had to change was the phase...was on 150 and had to take it to 0...

[Sputter]

I use 1 port eq1. Running in eq1 raised my 16hz response in line with my frequency curve. EQ2 rolled off my ~22hz more than I wanted.

Jim

[Len B]

Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu

We get flat in-room response down to 16Hz with those settings!!! Our room is ~ 33 ft. deep, so there is a strong room mode close to 16Hz...

I use EQ2 with both ports open and Q .3 and also have a flat in-room response down to 16hz!

-Len

[Pete_Hsu]

That's awesome Len! What are your room dimensions (HxWxD, including openings to other areas)?

[jsgrise]

Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu

Hi Andrew,

In our demo room, we are running with both ports open/EQ2/Q = 0.3 .

Some time back I played around with various operating modes, and I liked all of them, with subtle strengths and weaknesses between the different modes depending on what program material was played and how loud it was played.

This thread is now a sticky

Sincerely,

Pete,

What material do you use in your demo room? Any suggestion on specific tracks or scenes?

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi Sebastien,

I like to show the fight scene between Hulk and the other monster that happens near the end of the Blu Ray disc "Hulk". This shows off both the speakers and the subwoofer quite nicely.

There is also very intense LFE on the Blu Ray disc "Flight of the Phoenix" in the Sandstorm scene.

Sincerely,

[TimmyD]

After measuring my in-room response with each operational mode i found get the best response in MaxOutput mode.

Both ports Open
EQ-2
Q: .4

With a little EQing to bring down a couple peaks, im getting no more than a 2dB variation between 16hz thru 250hz!! Truly amazing!!

Thanks Pete for helping me load up my subs each time i came to pick them up!!

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by TimmyD

After measuring my in-room response with each operational mode i found get the best response in MaxOutput mode.

Both ports Open
EQ-2
Q: .4

With a little EQing to bring down a couple peaks, im getting no more than a 2dB variation between 16hz thru 250hz!! Truly amazing!!

Thanks Pete for helping me load up my subs each time i came to pick them up!!

Care to share your graph?

[TimmyD]

Im not running any equipment that prints out the measurements sorry!

I did it old school, Test CD, SPL Meter (including compinsation for below 31.5) & a pen/paper. Thats why it took me so many hours of trial & error.I did graph the results by hand each time but they'd look like chicken scratch to you haha. After i found out how all each setting on the sub's plate amps changed the response, i dialed them in to fit my room best, then used the Sub Parametric EQ in my Yamaha RX-A2000 to bring those peaks down. I think the peaks were at 31.5hz for the VTF-15h & 63hz for the MBM-12 if i remember correct.

I know its not the most accurate way to do it but until i dive into getting a calibrated mic, REW, etc. This will have to do for me. The audible results from the time spent has been great & it was a fun learning experience!! I learned A LOT

My Wife thinks im crazy, setting there with warble tones playin, SPL meter on a tripod on the couch & all my hand drawn graphs...but once i was done & sat her down for a listen she appreciated, at least a tiny bit more, what i was working on.

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by TimmyD

Im not running any equipment that prints out the measurements sorry!

I did it old school, Test CD, SPL Meter (including compinsation for below 31.5) & a pen/paper. Thats why it took me so many hours of trial & error.I did graph the results by hand each time but they'd look like chicken scratch to you haha. After i found out how all each setting on the sub's plate amps changed the response, i dialed them in to fit my room best, then used the Sub Parametric EQ in my Yamaha RX-A2000 to bring those peaks down. I think the peaks were at 31.5hz for the VTF-15h & 63hz for the MBM-12 if i remember correct.

I know its not the most accurate way to do it but until i dive into getting a calibrated mic, REW, etc. This will have to do for me. The audible results from the time spent has been great & it was a fun learning experience!! I learned A LOT

My Wife thinks im crazy, setting there with warble tones playin, SPL meter on a tripod on the couch & all my hand drawn graphs...but once i was done & sat her down for a listen she appreciated, at least a tiny bit more, what i was working on.

(i still have some graph paper floating around here someplace)

I did the same thing as you over a year ago then I bought and used the SMS-1. (considerably easier).
I've since moved to REW for measuring and the SMS-1 for EQ. REW is far more accurate.

[TimmyD]

Nice!! I bet it is quite a bit better!! Well thats good to hear from someone whose done both. I know ive made a improvement but its cool to know i can get it dialed in even better!

[DimeMecka]

Originally Posted by Sputter

(i still have some graph paper floating around here someplace)

I did the same thing as you over a year ago then I bought and used the SMS-1. (considerably easier).
I've since moved to REW for measuring and the SMS-1 for EQ. REW is far more accurate.

Are you more music then HT?

[DimeMecka]

Originally Posted by TimmyD

Im not running any equipment that prints out the measurements sorry!

I did it old school, Test CD, SPL Meter (including compinsation for below 31.5) & a pen/paper. Thats why it took me so many hours of trial & error.I did graph the results by hand each time but they'd look like chicken scratch to you haha. After i found out how all each setting on the sub's plate amps changed the response, i dialed them in to fit my room best, then used the Sub Parametric EQ in my Yamaha RX-A2000 to bring those peaks down. I think the peaks were at 31.5hz for the VTF-15h & 63hz for the MBM-12 if i remember correct.

I know its not the most accurate way to do it but until i dive into getting a calibrated mic, REW, etc. This will have to do for me. The audible results from the time spent has been great & it was a fun learning experience!! I learned A LOT

My Wife thinks im crazy, setting there with warble tones playin, SPL meter on a tripod on the couch & all my hand drawn graphs...but once i was done & sat her down for a listen she appreciated, at least a tiny bit more, what i was working on.

Wow, I wish I was smart enough to do something like this! I have a analog SPL from radioshack but the most I can do with it is calibrate all my speakers. I am totally lost when it comes to the sub I don't understand how you run your test tones off of a cd and adjust your speakers at the same time? That's why I just use my receivers tones. Do you just keep switching back and forth from the cd to the receiver to adjust?

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by DimeMecka

Wow, I wish I was smart enough to do something like this! I have a analog SPL from radioshack but the most I can do with it is calibrate all my speakers. I am totally lost when it comes to the sub I don't understand how you run your test tones off of a cd and adjust your speakers at the same time? That's why I just use my receivers tones. Do you just keep switching back and forth from the cd to the receiver to adjust?

The instructions come with the sub. The following is in the 15H manual:

For the most precise integration with your main speakers, go through test tones with a SPL meter. Setting the level using test tones by ear
may result in misconfiguration, so please use a meter. An analog Radio Shack SPL meter is inexpensive and works better for this application
than the digital Radio Shack SPL meter. It is available at RadioShack.com. Use the “C” weighting and “SLOW” settings and place the meter
at the listening position at ear level. Note that the Radio Shack analog meter is about 12 dB down at 16 Hz, 7 dB down at 20 Hz, 4 dB
down at 25 Hz, and 2 dB down at 31.5 Hz. Add these numbers to the readout on the SPL meter to compensate.
1) Using a test disk with one-third octave filtered pink noise or warble tones (such as the Hsu/BAS Test CD-1), play the 50 Hz test tone
and adjust the master volume level on the controller so that the SPL meter reads 80 dB at the listening position.
2) Play test tones from 20 Hz up to 200Hz, and note the SPL reading on the meter at each frequency.
3) Take the average of four test tones below the crossover frequency (ie. 63/50/40/31.5 Hz when using 80 Hz crossover).
4) Take the average of four test tones above the crossover frequency (ie. 100/125/160/200 Hz when using 80 Hz crossover).
5) Adjust the subwoofer level so that the lower range average equals the upper range average (ie. if the lower range average is 5dB more
than the upper range average, then adjust the subwoofer level down by 5dB). If your controller allows you to adjust subwoofer channel
level, use this to adjust the subwoofer level. Otherwise simply adjust the subwoofer volume knob instead.

Not too difficult, just tedious!

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by DimeMecka

Are you more music then HT?

No i'm not, cd's killed most of my music enjoyment so i'm more HT these days.

P.S. Dr Hsu has it right, it's tedious doing it by hand, more specifically if you want to measure more than one placement. lol

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by Sputter

No i'm not, cd's killed most of my music enjoyment so i'm more HT these days.

What are you doing up at this early hour??

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

What are you doing up at this early hour??

lol i'm an early riser, too many years of shift work.

[OZZ]

Originally Posted by Sputter

No i'm not, cd's killed most of my music enjoyment so i'm more HT these days.

P.S. Dr Hsu has it right, it's tedious doing it by hand, more specifically if you want to measure more than one placement. lol

I am just the opposite I have found that it is easier for the CD,DVD-A and SACD to play the bottom end a lot better than my old turntable that I had well into 2000.00 and it had to be on concrete blocks just to keep feedback down.
I almost think the rock I listened to had filters on the bottom end compared to the same song on CD although I will admit a few copies lost some of the dynamics do to PPP of the mastering which still happens.
One copy that was done very well is Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms" on the CD,DVD-A and SACD if they were all mastered this well we all would be happier.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by OZZ

I am just the opposite I have found that it is easier for the CD,DVD-A and SACD to play the bottom end a lot better than my old turntable that I had well into 2000.00 and it had to be on concrete blocks just to keep feedback down.
I almost think the rock I listened to had filters on the bottom end compared to the same song on CD although I will admit a few copies lost some of the dynamics do to PPP of the mastering which still happens.
One copy that was done very well is Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms" on the CD,DVD-A and SACD if they were all mastered this well we all would be happier.

I think Sputter meant CDs do not sound as musical as LPs - more about the mids and highs than about the bass. Am I right, Sputter?

[shaolin95]

As a new owner I can tell you I am still finding the best spot and settings but I am already impressed.
I have a MFW15 which was dead but that I was finally able to fix after I got the 15H but wow there is a big difference between the two.
Don't get me wrong, for the used price you can get a MFW15 like $350.. is an insane deal..nothing comes close BUT finding replacement parts is a pain..nearly impossible.
As for performance, the MFW15 has some BIG punch...War of the worlds sounds terrific..but that is the thing..mostly SOUNDS big....when I switched to the 15H a different experience came up...sounds huge but also you can feel it...hard to describe but wow it is addictive..is like a vibration on your body..legs...very cool...Of course both together I felt my room was under attack...so I am keeping both

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

I think Sputter meant CDs do not sound as musical as LPs - more about the mids and highs than about the bass. Am I right, Sputter?

Exactly right. I will admit they (CDs) have improved over time.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by shaolin95

As a new owner I can tell you I am still finding the best spot and settings but I am already impressed.
I have a MFW15 which was dead but that I was finally able to fix after I got the 15H but wow there is a big difference between the two.
Don't get me wrong, for the used price you can get a MFW15 like $350.. is an insane deal..nothing comes close BUT finding replacement parts is a pain..nearly impossible.
As for performance, the MFW15 has some BIG punch...War of the worlds sounds terrific..but that is the thing..mostly SOUNDS big....when I switched to the 15H a different experience came up...sounds huge but also you can feel it...hard to describe but wow it is addictive..is like a vibration on your body..legs...very cool...Of course both together I felt my room was under attack...so I am keeping both

Glad you like it, Shaolin95. Welcome to the Hsu 'family'.

[shaolin95]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Glad you like it, Shaolin95. Welcome to the Hsu 'family'.

Thanks Doctor!
Took me a while to decide but I am sure I made the right call and I still need to work on the room to make it better but I am enjoying it too much to bother now.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by shaolin95

Thanks Doctor!
Took me a while to decide but I am sure I made the right call and I still need to work on the room to make it better but I am enjoying it too much to bother now.

When you have more time, post your room layout, pictures, etc., so we can all make suggestions on how to improve your setup.

[shaolin95]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

When you have more time, post your room layout, pictures, etc., so we can all make suggestions on how to improve your setup.

I will surely appreciate that. I am ordering a Galaxy CM-140 as well.
I need to get more exact measurements and get the layout and pictures for sure. It is an unfinished basement which I divided in two pretty much although there are openings where the ceiling should be..well you will see with the pics.

I also have some acoustic panels from GIK acoustics...randomly placed right now so all in all I sure can use some help.
Thanks again



PS not so sure about cm-140...looks like it only measures down to 31.5hz?

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by shaolin95

I will surely appreciate that. I am ordering a Galaxy CM-140 as well.
I need to get more exact measurements and get the layout and pictures for sure. It is an unfinished basement which I divided in two pretty much although there are openings where the ceiling should be..well you will see with the pics.

I also have some acoustic panels from GIK acoustics...randomly placed right now so all in all I sure can use some help.
Thanks again



PS not so sure about cm-140...looks like it only measures down to 31.5hz?

It probably has similar frequency response characteristics as the Radio Shack SPL meter. I see that it has an A and C weighting. The roll off on the Radio Shack SPL meter is mostly due to the C weighting. Hence if you set the CM-140 to C weighting, use the correction factors for the Radio Shack meter. If any other forum members have measured the CM-140 and find otherwise, please post!

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

It probably has similar frequency response characteristics as the Radio Shack SPL meter. I see that it has an A and C weighting. The roll off on the Radio Shack SPL meter is mostly due to the C weighting. Hence if you set the CM-140 to C weighting, use the correction factors for the Radio Shack meter. If any other forum members have measured the CM-140 and find otherwise, please post!

That sounds right though i'm not sure which Radio Shack calibration file you would need. I know of , 2 are for the analogue and one for digital.

Jim

P.S. there is a cal file for use with REW.

[shaolin95]

Cool. I ordered one so I will get one those Radio Shack excel sheets and replace it the values on that cal file for the cm-140 and I am in business!


CHANGE of plans...found an analog Radio shack one for $15....for the price difference I just could not ignore it. Maybe I will get a calibrated cm-140 a bit later but for now , maybe I can use the catch for other things.

[gerald410]

Originally Posted by shaolin95

Cool. I ordered one so I will get one those Radio Shack excel sheets and replace it the values on that cal file for the cm-140 and I am in business!


CHANGE of plans...found an analog Radio shack one for $15....for the price difference I just could not ignore it. Maybe I will get a calibrated cm-140 a bit later but for now , maybe I can use the catch for other things.

I have a cm-140 w/calibrator being shipped as we speak, I going to blame my order on Dr Hsu lol.