VTF-15H Hybrid True Subwoofer

[Sputter]

SMS-1 measures at 1/3 octave which is pretty rough. Using REW to measure and the SMS-1 to EQ is a far better and more accurate route.

I started off with just using a SMS-1 for measurements/EQ but I moved to REW to measure. A huge difference between 1/3 and 1/48 resolution.

[hometheatergeek]

Congrats Hsu family for getting Editors Top Picks for subwoofers in this months edition of Home theater Magazine. The VTF-15H took the honors.

[Pete_Hsu]

Thanks buddy, and thanks to everyone at Home Theater Mag too!

Sincerely,

[TEAMHRC]

Hello All,

I'm new here and just wanted to ask an opinion.

I just purchased 2-VTF-15h's and wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with alternate room placement of 2 of these subs with locations other than either side of your screen or TV?

Quick list of base equipment in case it matters.

Integra DHC-80.3
Emotiva XPA-5
Emotiva XPA-2
HSU VTF-15 x 2
Klipsch RF 7II system in 7.2
Runco LED projector

[Phonzo07]

I have 2 of them and in my room, they work really well on the left and right of my entertainment stand. Your placement dependends on your room.

[jsgrise]

Well I ordered mine last Wednesday and I really can't wait to hold this baby in my arms (the 21st, hopefuly)!!

I've been snooping around the audio forums for the past few weeks to help me decide which subwoofer was going to replace my twin Velodyne DLS-5000R. After exchanging a few emails with Pete (who is a greattest guy and gives an outstanding customer service) and reading some reviews (even the ones made by "haters"), I was convinced that the VTF-15H was the way to go.

My question for today, some of you guys have experienced a lot more subs that I did. What should I expect from my new HSU compare to my ex-twins? Any major improvement? A friend of mine runs a single VTF3.2 and as far as extendion and SQ, my twins didn't stand a chance.

All the best,

[Pete_Hsu]

You are much too kind Sebastien, thank you for the very kind words, my pleasure to help!

Sincerely,

[cacihome]

The VTf-15 is comparable to 2~3 VTf 3.2...

[jsgrise]

I finally got my new VTF-15H from FedEx last Wednesday and all I have to say is that this subwoofer is a masterpiece as far as sound quality. The sound produce by it is very clean, accurate and feels real. I may not have the same mid-bass sheer power as I use to have with my twin DLS-5000R, but this is more of a room size issue than the product itself.

Currently listening to Diana Krall - Christmas Songs 96/24 release and I hear some tones in the bass that I never heard before. Love it!

Congrats on Pete and is team, you guys make great products!

Happy Holidays to all!

[Pete_Hsu]

Congrats Sebastien, thank you for all the wonderful feedback! Did you settle yet on preferred # of ports plugged, operating mode, and Q control settings?

Very Happy Holidays to all of you!

Sincerely,

[jsgrise]

Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu

Congrats Sebastien, thank you for all the wonderful feedback! Did you settle yet on preferred # of ports plugged, operating mode, and Q control settings?

Very Happy Holidays to all of you!

Sincerely,

I mostly use the sub with one port open, EQ1 and Q0.4. Two ports open with EQ 2 is very neat, but theres something about the one port plugged that I like.

Whatever configuration you choose, the VTF-15H sounds brilliant. I won't hesitate to buy two or three of these bad boys to fill my room the way I want.

[Pete_Hsu]

Cool. No doubt that one port plugged will give the deepest bass possible. And moving from a single to multiple subs will be icing on the cake

Sincerely,

[monkuboy]

Okay, I have a simple question. I have a VTF-2 Mk 3 which I think is great. So, if I were to upgrade to a VTF-15H, what differences should I expect to hear? Volume is not one of my considerations because the VTF-2 Mk 3 can play a lot louder than I need without distorting. Aside from the volume aspect, what other differences? I do about 50/50 music versus movies, or perhaps 60/40 music versus movies.

Actually I have another question.. if I did have a VTF-15H, the only way it would fit in the only space there is in the room for it, would be with it on the right side of the system, with the speaker facing left instead of towards the listening area. Would that be a problem?

[shadyJ]

If output from the VTF2 is sufficient for you, there isn't much reason to go with the VT15h, in my opinion. The most it can give you over the VTF2, aside from more output, is lower distortion per DB, but if you aren't pushing the VTF2 to its limits that shouldn't be a concern. You do get more operating modes with the VTF15h and thus more ways to customize the sound, so if you want something with more tweakability, the VTF15h can give you that. If you are after a more dramatic change in the character of the bass sound, I would look at the ULS-15.

The direction the driver is facing won't make much of a difference, so I wouldn't worry about that.

[monkuboy]

Originally Posted by shadyJ

If output from the VTF2 is sufficient for you, there isn't much reason to go with the VT15h, in my opinion. The most it can give you over the VTF2, aside from more output, is lower distortion per DB, but if you aren't pushing the VTF2 to its limits that shouldn't be a concern. You do get more operating modes with the VTF15h and thus more ways to customize the sound, so if you want something with more tweakability, the VTF15h can give you that. If you are after a more dramatic change in the character of the bass sound, I would look at the ULS-15.

The direction the driver is facing won't make much of a difference, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Thanks for your input on that. I don't think I am pushing the sub anywhere near its limits. The bass notes are solid, well-defined, and clean, and on HT explosions and other low frequency sounds are realistic and not at all boomy. It's a very nice sub. But one of these days I'd like to have a VTF-15H just to have a behemoth in the house.

[cacihome]

Originally Posted by shadyJ

If output from the VTF2 is sufficient for you, there isn't much reason to go with the VT15h, in my opinion. The most it can give you over the VTF2, aside from more output, is lower distortion per DB, but if you aren't pushing the VTF2 to its limits that shouldn't be a concern. You do get more operating modes with the VTF15h and thus more ways to customize the sound, so if you want something with more tweakability, the VTF15h can give you that. If you are after a more dramatic change in the character of the bass sound, I would look at the ULS-15.

The direction the driver is facing won't make much of a difference, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Yeah, I think you nailed it.

[monkuboy]

The VTF-2 Mk 3 is really a great sub. I guess I am afflicted with the audio disease of wondering if the grass is greener instead of just realizing what I have sounds really good. But then that's what keeps revenues coming in for the manufacturers, right? I heard the VTF-15H at the Newport audio show (along with the other Hsu products) and they're all great.

[jsgrise]

After playing around with the 15H for more than 2 weeks now, I got to admit that the break-in of my unit makes a big overall difference. I really, really can't wait to get a 2nd one. Although it is not really needed , it just makes my system looks more symmetrical and I can't imagine how it will sounds like!

While watching Inception, I heard some low bass that I never heard before with my Velodynes. Feels awesome!

I now run the sub 2 ports open, EQ 2 and Q 0.5, which give me a flat response below 15Hz.

[Phonzo07]

Question,

I have a concrete floor covered with Tile for my basement and have dual VTF-15Hs. My upstairs vibrates alot during bass heavy scenes.

Would decoupling from the floor with a Subdude or Gramma provide any less vibration along with the rubber feet?? Or are the Rubber feet providing the same isolation as the isolation pads?

I'm thinking of getting a Subdude or something. But before I purchase I want to know your thoughts. From the makers of the VTF, are the rubber feet isolators themselves? Am I already getting the best isolation?

Thanks in advance.

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by Phonzo07

Question,

I have a concrete floor covered with Tile for my basement and have dual VTF-15Hs. My upstairs vibrates alot during bass heavy scenes.

Would decoupling from the floor with a Subdude or Gramma provide any less vibration along with the rubber feet?? Or are the Rubber feet providing the same isolation as the isolation pads?

I'm thinking of getting a Subdude or something. But before I purchase I want to know your thoughts. From the makers of the VTF, are the rubber feet isolators themselves? Am I already getting the best isolation?

Thanks in advance.

It can help, do a simple test. Place your subs on seat cushions and run some demo material. This will help give you an idea.

[Phonzo07]

I will try that tonight. Maybe I don't need it.. But Who knows.. Thanks..

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by Phonzo07

I will try that tonight. Maybe I don't need it.. But Who knows.. Thanks..

It will help to decouple the room however it won't block the long waves that subs produce.

[Phonzo07]

Tried it last night, and it did not work for the vibrations. I found out the rubber feet are just fine. It's the same decoupling for my home on the concrete basement floor. The walls are vibrating behind the speaker and the pressure from the bass is what's making the upstairs floors directly above it rattle. Oh well. lol It still sounds good!... Thanks Alot Sputter... (I've read numerous forums, and you are EVERYWHERE.. lol

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by Phonzo07

Tried it last night, and it did not work for the vibrations. I found out the rubber feet are just fine. It's the same decoupling for my home on the concrete basement floor. The walls are vibrating behind the speaker and the pressure from the bass is what's making the upstairs floors directly above it rattle. Oh well. lol It still sounds good!... Thanks Alot Sputter... (I've read numerous forums, and you are EVERYWHERE.. lol

I cross time/space. On rare occasions I even make sense.

The riser/isolation pad types can work depending on what you're trying to solve. All the hype you hear from people aren't backed up with before and after graphs or measurements.

[rwjr]

I made my own thread (http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=95221) but wanted to show it here in case you miss the thread.

My fake quad VTF-15H setup:

[ManyDimensions]

Over the years, I’ve owned some pretty enjoyable audio gear that I appreciated to varying degrees:
· Theta Data Basic 1
· Adcom GDA-600
· PS Audio 4.5
· Counterpoint SA-1000
· Sonic Frontiers Line 1
· Anthem AVM20 V2
· Sunfire Loud Invariant Stereo Amp.
· Anthem MCA20
· Adcom GFA-555
· Martin Logan Sequel I’s
· B&W DM602 S2s
· Sunfire True II
· Paradigm PW2200

But with an ever active family and a new home, I sold the components (except the AVM20 and the 602s) in favor of something more up-to-date and in the case of speakers – better child resistance. So when money, time and availability permitted, I put together a home theater consisting of:
· Oppo BDP-83
· Onkyo PR-SC886P
· Rotel RB-1572 & RMB-1565
· Mirage OMD-5’s (crossovers modified)
· Mitsubishi HC3800
· 124” Wilsonart Designer White screen
· 2 - Athena P3 Subs (from my Wife’s system before we married)

When schedules permitted, I researched for replacements of the P3’s that would hit personal requirements for: fidelity, bandwidth, firing configuration, setup flexability, build quality, operating efficiency, amp. temperature, customer service (including warranty and return policies), cost, aesthetics and could fit below my screen between two built-in disc shelves. So over a ~ three year period I looked at the PB13-Ultra until it became too expensive, a DIY A7s-650 variation but stayed away due to lack of comfort with EDs reported amp. and CS issues; which eventually brought me to the FV15HP and the VTF-15H.

Ethan and Adam’s review along with various owner testimonies, as well as the need to stay as close to 1 grand as possible combined with HSU’s pre and post sales reputation, led me to contact Pete for Q&A. Each time I called, he answered on about the second ring and was very congenial in his approach, further elevating my opinion of the company. Three conversations later found me purchasing a ‘15H as a confident choice for effectively addressing what I need. Satisfied that I embarked in the right direction, I happily waited until it was delivered on 12/20 only to be informed then by my wife that it sustained a hole right through to the cabinet somewhere on its journey to our home (she also being busy didn’t think at the time to refuse shipment). One quick call to Pete and he had another shipped out that day as a great olive branch with hopes that we would receive it before Christmas. In turn I readied the first one the next day for pickup and also sent Pete pics of the damage.

Brief pause: Yikes. A reportedly overachieving product designed and produced by a company that is readily available to talk with, cares about its customer’s needs and quickly/effectively addresses concerns without mo’ money and angst up front from the customer?! Given the rarity of this approach, what had already been elevated became even more so. Because it was at this point that I among other reasons wished for ridiculous sums of wealth so I could hand-out free VTF-15’s and a Crib Notes version of the HSU Business Model to friends and family as a way to alleviate pain, suffering, the need for higher fidelity and of course as a mode for supplying a spark of hope in an otherwise bleak early 21st Century corporate landscape. And I haven’t even heard the product.

Pete did some checking and informed me that the second one wouldn’t be delivered until the 27th. Though it wasn’t the 24th, he went above and beyond the all-too-dismal norm. and I was duly thankful for having chosen HSU with which to do business. As luck would have it, I checked the tracking number on the 24th and found the second one was waiting at a local FedEx Distribution Center. With haste I called the facility, talked with the lone person working there that afternoon and made arrangements to pick it up!

Two weeks and a flurry of activity later, we finally unboxed it (too long to explain), ah but there it was in all its semi-gloss glory. Veh-heh-herrrrry nice except for a faint hemispherical mar spanning topside across the cabinet’s width, which given where it will be installed, I easily overlooked; nonetheless, its one thing to admire the look and design execution of a component, but another to use it. So I connected it to the processor via (another Christmas present) Analysis Plus Sub Oval Interconnect, connected the AC cable, pulled one foam plug and played Enya’s “The Longships” from Watermark. With the Onkyo’s volume at -9 and the HSU’s settings untouched – including the volume which was slightly above the lowest setting, I wanted to see how cleanly it would handle the track… …Once it was done, my wife quickly informed me that everything in the kitchen upstairs was vibrating including waves travelling through her feet to her head.

This is a good sign. Not only that, but as an audio enthusiast and musician, I’m quite aware of how something should sound in comparison to where a component may be in its break-in period. That the ‘15H in a ~5,600 cu. ft. room (with openings to other areas) handled the fidelity and depth of the track remarkably well in its initial run - brought a welcome sigh of relief in that the years of research, patience and of course eventually money – have been well spent. To know that it competes with B&M offerings <~3x the asking price and that it has more in the tank once it breaks-in, pleasantly brings the whole thing full circle and ends a quest I started over three years ago.

Out of curiosity I played the same track on the P3s which returned a rather embarrassingly weak smear campaign on the whole affair insomuch that continuing was out of the question. In retrospect they are certainly better than nothing and served their purpose in allowing us to limp-by until something far more capable came down the pike. Given that, they along with the 602s will be setup in the Instrument Room which then gives me something to jam to: a win-win situation.

Understanding that I originally targeted and kept track of the PB13-Ultra, it was interesting to read a comparison by an AVS Member who owns a PC13-Ultra and a VTF-15H. He relayed that while testing each via a few bombastic scenes from The Hulk with his neighbor, he was shocked at how well the HSU performed, with the neighbor preferring the ‘15H. That and the many favorable comparisons like it, only add to the novel experience of owning it.

More to come when I get chance,
MD

[tdekany]

MD - what an entertaining read that was. Your wife's comment made me laugh!!!

Enjoy that beast. Will it be used for HT?

[ManyDimensions]

Thank you. Yes, it will be used for HT and music. This weekend, I'm working on cutting a hole in the screen wall, so it can be placed there. However my skills are only just so much; therefore, I need someone to build a grill I've designed, so if there are any extremely good carpenters in the SE Michigan area, give me a shout.

=MD=

[Pete_Hsu]

Thank you so much for the wonderful feedback MD! Welcome to the forum, and congrats

Sincerely,

[OZZ]

I have had friends over and now they are looking into their budget as the VTF -15H has impressed them all it really does sell itself after an audition.

[ManyDimensions]

The good folks at HSU have certainly earned it Pete; and thank you for the warm welcome.

=MD=

[ack_bk]

Thought some folks here might want to read this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21724410

After some research between myself and others, I reached out to Gene at Audioholics and he agreed to do the following for the HSU VTF-15H:

You know I kinda thought it was a little strange that the Outlaw sub had more output than the bigger HSU at low F.

Paul's SVS measurements were correct per SVS and I also added the DSP correction SPL#'s that they made after Paul's review.

I published Josh's Rythmik data b/c it was more complete than Paul's.

It's only fair now to re-examine Paul's data where he tested the sub "vertically" per HSU request, despite it's against the CEA 2010 standard.

So, with the risk of getting my post pulled by admin for posting a link to my site, I will take Paul's vertical tested data here:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...a-test-results

and subtract 6dB instead of 9dB to get 2 meter RMS data and update our Excel spreadsheet.

This would yield the following results for the HSU VTF-15H: (2 meter RMS GP)
20Hz 105.1 dB
25Hz 107.8 dB
32Hz 111.6 dB
40Hz 113.4 dB
50Hz 113.5 dB
60Hz 113.7 dB

Thanks for doing the investigative work to bring this to my attention.

This also gets the HSU VTF-15H almost passing our "Extreme" room rating size. I rounded up to give it that certification based mostly on the # of users here claiming the sub pumps reference levels into large rooms without a problem. Hopefully one day I can take a listen to one of these for myself.

thanks. __________________
Best Regards;

Gene DellaSala (GDS)
President, Audioholics.com

Kudos to Gene for listening and making the adjustments. The "Extreme" room rating for a $879 commerical subwoofer says it all about the VTF-15H. It is an amazing value

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by ack_bk

Thought some folks here might want to read this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21724410

After some research between myself and others, I reached out to Gene at Audioholics and he agreed to do the following for the HSU VTF-15H:


Kudos to Gene for listening and making the adjustments. The "Extreme" room rating for a $879 commerical subwoofer says it all about the VTF-15H. It is an amazing value

Thank you so much and thank you Gene!

[Nigel_Pl]

Good work ack_bk!

I was reading up on VTF-15H reviews, when I ran into the AH review and the heated exchanges that ensued, where it was implied that HSU and other reviewers were being dishonest about the capabilities of the VTF-15H because of the $$$ factor. I was really surprised how well Dr Hsu and Peter dealt with the assault on their integrity, and now, it is proven that they were truthful all along - so were the VTF-15H supporters. Well done in resolving the ironies from the various measurements to make that discovery. It is a shame that this was not resolved earlier within AH and I do hope they update the numbers on their site.

I'd love a VTF-15H, unfortunately, after reading all about the VTF-15H, I discovered that HSU no longer have a dealer where I live, and the shipping cost would be the same as the subwoofer! Oh well, I'll just have to find a similar sub that is available locally, or hopefully, one might pop up on EBAY here

Regards,
Nige

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by Nigel_Pl

Good work ack_bk!

I was reading up on VTF-15H reviews, when I ran into the AH review and the heated exchanges that ensued, where it was implied that HSU and other reviewers were being dishonest about the capabilities of the VTF-15H because of the $$$ factor. I was really surprised how well Dr Hsu and Peter dealt with the assault on their integrity, and now, it is proven that they were truthful all along - so were the VTF-15H supporters. Well done in resolving the ironies from the various measurements to make that discovery. It is a shame that this was not resolved earlier within AH and I do hope they update the numbers on their site.

I'd love a VTF-15H, unfortunately, after reading all about the VTF-15H, I discovered that HSU no longer have a dealer where I live, and the shipping cost would be the same as the subwoofer! Oh well, I'll just have to find a similar sub that is available locally, or hopefully, one might pop up on EBAY here

Regards,
Nige

Thank you for your kind words, Nigel. Yes, we do not have any Australian dealers. Unfortunately with our low margins to bring the products to market at such great prices, even if there is a dealer in Australia, it will have a pretty high markup for him to make a profit on it..

[Nigel_Pl]

Hi Dr Hsu,

That is understandable, and with many companies in Australia struggling at the moment, I doubt many would want to be involved with the cost associated with importing and handling something as big and heavy as a subwoofer, and as you said, they would have to mark it up quite high to make a profit.

I did find a distributor for one of the other US internet direct subwoofer companies, that managed to keep their mark up at 27% compared to the US RRP of their subwoofers. The strong Aussie dollar makes it even more affordable, but I wonder how they make a profit. The distributor also stocks other types of smaller and lighter audio gear which might have higher margins.

Regards,
Nigel

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by Nigel_Pl

Hi Dr Hsu,

That is understandable, and with many companies in Australia struggling at the moment, I doubt many would want to be involved with the cost associated with importing and handling something as big and heavy as a subwoofer, and as you said, they would have to mark it up quite high to make a profit.

I did find a distributor for one of the other US internet direct subwoofer companies, that managed to keep their mark up at 27% compared to the US RRP of their subwoofers. The strong Aussie dollar makes it even more affordable, but I wonder how they make a profit. The distributor also stocks other types of smaller and lighter audio gear which might have higher margins.

Regards,
Nigel

Remarkable that they were able to do that. I have no clue how they did it.

[ack_bk]

Originally Posted by Nigel_Pl

Good work ack_bk!

I was reading up on VTF-15H reviews, when I ran into the AH review and the heated exchanges that ensued, where it was implied that HSU and other reviewers were being dishonest about the capabilities of the VTF-15H because of the $$$ factor. I was really surprised how well Dr Hsu and Peter dealt with the assault on their integrity, and now, it is proven that they were truthful all along - so were the VTF-15H supporters. Well done in resolving the ironies from the various measurements to make that discovery. It is a shame that this was not resolved earlier within AH and I do hope they update the numbers on their site.

I'd love a VTF-15H, unfortunately, after reading all about the VTF-15H, I discovered that HSU no longer have a dealer where I live, and the shipping cost would be the same as the subwoofer! Oh well, I'll just have to find a similar sub that is available locally, or hopefully, one might pop up on EBAY here

Regards,
Nige

Nigel,

Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to respond. Yes, something was not adding up with the posted VTF-15H numbers and an exchange between Nuance and Ricci (I respect both of them very much) about the differing CEA-2010 output numbers with regards to the Rythmik sub, was what really helped me dig into the measured numbers. No sense in digging up old wounds, but I agree that Pete and Dr Hsu are class acts, and I have always had much respect for Gene at AH and was glad to see him look into the numbers and listen. The VTF-15H is an amazing value for the money and at least the numbers represent that now and Gene was very gracious to bestow the Certified Extreme Room Rating on the VTF-15H.

It is a shame that you cannot own one for yourself, but it sounds like you were able to find something suitable at a reasonable price.

Enjoy!

[Nigel_Pl]

Originally Posted by ack_bk

Nigel,

Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to respond. Yes, something was not adding up with the posted VTF-15H numbers and an exchange between Nuance and Ricci (I respect both of them very much) about the differing CEA-2010 output numbers with regards to the Rythmik sub, was what really helped me dig into the measured numbers. No sense in digging up old wounds, but I agree that Pete and Dr Hsu are class acts, and I have always had much respect for Gene at AH and was glad to see him look into the numbers and listen. The VTF-15H is an amazing value for the money and at least the numbers represent that now and Gene was very gracious to bestow the Certified Extreme Room Rating on the VTF-15H.

It is a shame that you cannot own one for yourself, but it sounds like you were able to find something suitable at a reasonable price.

Enjoy!

Your welcome.

I know that the disagreement occurred a long time ago, and although I've been in and out of the HSU site over the years to see what was being developed, I only started looking at the VTF-15H closely a few weeks ago, so much of the discussion about the AH review is fresh in my mind. This will be true for people who are researching subwoofers at this moment. Even now, the AH review and forum link is nearly at the top of a Google search - the top one being another forum referring to the AH review. Many people, novices and seasoned audiophiles, will consider the contents of the review and the discussions when making a purchasing decision. The AH review has been referenced by forum posters to promote other subs over the VTF-15H, and in some cases to berate the people at HSU and other reviewers. AH promotes itself and has a reputation of "pursuing the truth" through "vigorous testing and reviews" and many followers took, and would take AH's findings over HSU or other reviewers. The fact that HSU invited Don Keele to check their testing methodologies was still not good enough for some.

Taking all this into account, it is great to finally see this resolved and Gene's response. I am glad that the subwoofer table has been updated to reflect this. I do hope that the main review measurements are updated - perhaps even the scores - so that the updated information is readily accessible to future AH visitors. The VTF-15H is one of a handful of subs on the table that is "Extreme Certified" - even more amazing when one factors in the price. From your good work, we now know for sure that all the great things Pete has said about Dr Hsu was true ... and he wasn't just after a pay rise

I'm still in the process of getting prices for various subs. I am looking for a subwoofer with a comparable price/performance ratio as the 15H - like one of the subs in the hilarious Brother's Shootout in the AVS forum. I haven't seen a HSU sub on Ebay Australia for a while, just a TN1225 review for $14 with delivery!

Thanks again and enjoy your sub!

Regards,
Nigel

[Nigel_Pl]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Remarkable that they were able to do that. I have no clue how they did it.

I was amazed as well.

[ack_bk]

Originally Posted by Nigel_Pl

Your welcome.

I know that the disagreement occurred a long time ago, and although I've been in and out of the HSU site over the years to see what was being developed, I only started looking at the VTF-15H closely a few weeks ago, so much of the discussion about the AH review is fresh in my mind. This will be true for people who are researching subwoofers at this moment. Even now, the AH review and forum link is nearly at the top of a Google search - the top one being another forum referring to the AH review. Many people, novices and seasoned audiophiles, will consider the contents of the review and the discussions when making a purchasing decision. The AH review has been referenced by forum posters to promote other subs over the VTF-15H, and in some cases to berate the people at HSU and other reviewers. AH promotes itself and has a reputation of "pursuing the truth" through "vigorous testing and reviews" and many followers took, and would take AH's findings over HSU or other reviewers. The fact that HSU invited Don Keele to check their testing methodologies was still not good enough for some.

Taking all this into account, it is great to finally see this resolved and Gene's response. I am glad that the subwoofer table has been updated to reflect this. I do hope that the main review measurements are updated - perhaps even the scores - so that the updated information is readily accessible to future AH visitors. The VTF-15H is one of a handful of subs on the table that is "Extreme Certified" - even more amazing when one factors in the price. From your good work, we now know for sure that all the great things Pete has said about Dr Hsu was true ... and he wasn't just after a pay rise

I'm still in the process of getting prices for various subs. I am looking for a subwoofer with a comparable price/performance ratio as the 15H - like one of the subs in the hilarious Brother's Shootout in the AVS forum. I haven't seen a HSU sub on Ebay Australia for a while, just a TN1225 review for $14 with delivery!

Thanks again and enjoy your sub!

Regards,
Nigel

The subwoofer and speaker forums can be a vicious place.. As a former Elemental Designs owner, I really wanted to buy from a company with class, great customer service, and a long reputation in the industry. Oh, and I also wanted a great performing subwoofer for around $1K...

That really left me with SVS and HSU. I have purchased SVS gear in the past and they really are a top notch company, but the value of the HSU was too much to pass up. I just did not want to stretch to get an SVS PB12+. And believe me, I read through the AH review and the back and forth, but it did not really deter me after I saw so many HSU owners rave about their subs and post glat 15hz response measurements in their room. I also saw the Sound And Vision revised review and the numbers were very close to what HSU was reporting.

The minute I put in an LFE heavy movie, I had a smile on my face. I knew the HSU was a keeper

I am curious. In your situation have you considered DIY? Even if you hired a custom cabinet maker to make you an enclosure, I suspect you would still be able to build a great sub.

[Nigel_Pl]

Originally Posted by ack_bk

The subwoofer and speaker forums can be a vicious place.. As a former Elemental Designs owner, I really wanted to buy from a company with class, great customer service, and a long reputation in the industry. Oh, and I also wanted a great performing subwoofer for around $1K...

That really left me with SVS and HSU. I have purchased SVS gear in the past and they really are a top notch company, but the value of the HSU was too much to pass up. I just did not want to stretch to get an SVS PB12+. And believe me, I read through the AH review and the back and forth, but it did not really deter me after I saw so many HSU owners rave about their subs and post glat 15hz response measurements in their room. I also saw the Sound And Vision revised review and the numbers were very close to what HSU was reporting.

The minute I put in an LFE heavy movie, I had a smile on my face. I knew the HSU was a keeper

I am curious. In your situation have you considered DIY? Even if you hired a custom cabinet maker to make you an enclosure, I suspect you would still be able to build a great sub.

Well, after going through all the reviews and posts I came to the same conclusion about the VTF-15H's. I even came across a review, where Dr Hsu played a 10Hz signal for the reviewer that made him feel strange? which was humorous, but I cannot find the article anymore to confirm exactly what he said. I have a TN1220HO and was keen to try out the latest HSU creation. You guys in the U.S. are very lucky when it comes to subwoofers - just look at the price!

I haven't considered DIY for a sub, but I guess that is a possibility.

Regards,
Nige

[Sputter]

Originally Posted by Nigel_Pl

Well, after going through all the reviews and posts I came to the same conclusion about the VTF-15H's. I even came across a review, where Dr Hsu played a 10Hz signal for the reviewer that made him feel strange? which was humorous, but I cannot find the article anymore to confirm exactly what he said. I have a TN1220HO and was keen to try out the latest HSU creation. You guys in the U.S. are very lucky when it comes to subwoofers - just look at the price!

I haven't considered DIY for a sub, but I guess that is a possibility.

Regards,
Nige

Shipping to Canada isn't bad considering but I could, between my taxes/shipping for my duals I could have had a 3rd one.

[Nigel_Pl]

Originally Posted by Sputter

Shipping to Canada isn't bad considering but I could, between my taxes/shipping for my duals I could have had a 3rd one.

The markup here, for nearly everything is usually very high, but I found a sub distributor that has managed to keep the price increase between 31% to 40% inclusive of shipping. The 27% increase I mentioned before didn't take into account the free shipping of that sub within the US. Hopefully I'll be able to find other sub distributors that are able to keep additional costs down.

Regards,
Nige

[gerald410]

1st time poster, Thx Dr Hsu for getting me approved in the forums. I haven't received my baby(VTF-15h) yet (Monday). I'm going crazy waiting, I fully expect to be blown away once it gets here

[scottfox]

I too currently own a VTF2.3 & am considering upgrading to the 15H. It is rare that I have volume issues, though I have heard some chuffing & maybe bottoming with Immortals & Underworld Awakening recently. I mainly want to be able to dig deeper, while still getting the visceral impact I get now, & maybe even more. Also considering a 2nd VTF2.3. I currently run with one port open. Maybe I just need to try again with both open? Also, my 12x20x9 room is open to the kitchen & remainder of the house. 67% movies, 33% music. Anyone in D/FW have a 15H care to have a visitor for a demo?

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by scottfox

I too currently own a VTF2.3 & am considering upgrading to the 15H. It is rare that I have volume issues, though I have heard some chuffing & maybe bottoming with Immortals & Underworld Awakening recently. I mainly want to be able to dig deeper, while still getting the visceral impact I get now, & maybe even more. Also considering a 2nd VTF2.3. I currently run with one port open. Maybe I just need to try again with both open? Also, my 12x20x9 room is open to the kitchen & remainder of the house. 67% movies, 33% music. Anyone in D/FW have a 15H care to have a visitor for a demo?

Please post a sketch of the whole space including the kitchen. I would upgrade to a 15H and use the 2.3 in your bedroom.

[elwaylite]

Due to the length of this sub, i need to save space where I can. I intend on using a right angle adapter for the sub cable, to allow it to head straight down towards floor. My question is, can you use either low level input? The red/right would be ideal for the right angle adapter.

Thanks.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/...5H-Amp-600.jpg

[Dr_Hsu]

Absolutely! Both inputs are treated the same way.

[elwaylite]

Excellent, thanks. Hope to order the monster in roughly 2 weeks.

[elwaylite]

One step closer to the VTF15, sold my VTF2 MK4 to a good friend today. His living room is maybe 1500 cuft, so it's going to rock him LOL.

I made a card board cutout today (26"x18"), so I could kinda see what I was dealing with for the VTF15H. What I found was it can actually go where my current VTF2 is, and not stick out barely any more (have 4.5" clearance behind VTF2 noww because of cable and ports). This is really really great because using my meter and sub crawl I found this spot to have several higher db's generally that my other option. So I get to add a VTF15, up from a VTF2, and then put it in the prime spot.

My question is, with using a right angle RCA adapter on the line in I can save a lot of room without the sub cable sticking back towards the wall, but is there any thing else with regards to the rear wall to worry about? I assume, being a front firing front port sub, as long as the amp switches arent hitting the wall its not too close?

[Dr_Hsu]

You may also want to look for a right angle power cord. The other thing that need to clear are the knobs. As long as you have enough space for these, you are set.

[elwaylite]

Ah, forgot about the power cord. I'll wait and see how that one goes.

Something else, and it seems the VTF15 is the same as the VTF2 here:

Here is how I have been handling Audyssey. Set sub to EQ1, Q 0.7 and one port plugged. I run Audyssey tweaking the gain knob until it sets the sub around -1.5dB. When there, I unplug the port, set Q to 0.3, EQ2 and then adjust the trim level in the AVR from -1.5db for the sub to +1.5db (3.0 hot).

Sound OK?

[Dr_Hsu]

Sounds great!

[elwaylite]

Excellent!

Can't wait to run Avengers and Battleship across that VTF15H

I spoke with Ray Coronado on the phone this weekend about his four ULS15's and what he thought about the VTF15. Very cool.

[elwaylite]

Ordered this AM, woohoo!

[Dr_Hsu]

Congrats! Enjoy.

[elwaylite]

Looking forward to it.

[elwaylite]

Dr. Hsu,

I was wondering if you guys receive all your components (driver, amp, cabinet) in Ca. and then assemble and test there as needed? Reason I ask, is I know most ID sub companies source their parts to different manufacturers, who build them to a certain spec. I notice a few ID companies tend to hit rough patches where something may be out of stock for a couple of months. I imagine it is not the easiest thing keeping the proper stock, and the more you have sitting i guess the more money is not in your account.

[Dr_Hsu]

No. Assembled in China.

[elwaylite]

Ah, gotcha. you guys must do a good job with inventory management, heavy monsters to be stocking around lol

[Dr_Hsu]

Yes, we do!

[kinggimp]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Ah, forgot about the power cord. I'll wait and see how that one goes.

Something else, and it seems the VTF15 is the same as the VTF2 here:

Here is how I have been handling Audyssey. Set sub to EQ1, Q 0.7 and one port plugged. I run Audyssey tweaking the gain knob until it sets the sub around -1.5dB. When there, I unplug the port, set Q to 0.3, EQ2 and then adjust the trim level in the AVR from -1.5db for the sub to +1.5db (3.0 hot).

Sound OK?

Once you have the VTF2 setup with this procedure do you turn on dynamic eq or leave it off?

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by kinggimp

Once you have the VTF2 setup with this procedure do you turn on dynamic eq or leave it off?

I used to use Dyn Eq a lot, but have cut it off for some time. My general HDTV watching is around -10.0 db, and I try and get movies at -2.0 to 0.0, so it was not real useful anyways. When I had smaller Def Tech bookshelfs, Dyn Eq seemed to over power the center when down low, and now I have Klipsch Towers with 8" woofers and a big Klipsch Center, i just dont need Dyn EQ in IMO.

The only time I listen real low is when the wife is asleep, so I generally cut the sub to OFF then anyways.

[elwaylite]

Here are my results, from my chair, with the VTF2. Once I get in the VTF15H, I plan to take these again just for a by the seat of my pants increase in db's.

Used a Galaxy CM 140 spl meter

hz--db(max)

16--80.1
20--90.2
25--91.3
31.5--86.3
40--98
50-98.9
63--93.8

[elwaylite]

Can someone explain this a little more indepth?

Setting the Q Control
We have added an adjustable Q control on the subwoofer amplifier in order to give the user higher headroom, flatter in-room response,
and better ability to take advantage of room gain. Set Q = 0.3 for the highest mid-bass headroom in all room sizes, and for the flattest
deep bass response in small-to-medium room sizes. Set Q = 0.5 for the flattest deep bass response in medium-to-large room sizes. Set
Q = 0.7 for the flattest deep bass response in large room sizes. Note that the low bass is more rolled off in the lower Q settings. This
means that higher Q settings can result in less low bass headroom, ie. the subwoofer will run out of steam in the low bass earlier when
the Q setting is higher.

I think I get why 0.3 is a good idea, but when you look at those SPL charts you gain more as Q increases. Is it a case where a higher Q can hit a higher spl, but can't sustain it?

As far as Max Ext vs Max Otput, Im 100% HT use. I'm guessing that Max Output suits me best because I listen at high playback and getting that 20hz-120hz lfe at it's loudest for a good action flick is the best move? I mean its not like Max Output mode wont hit fairly hard at 16hz as well, I mean my VTF2 does fine with 16hz at Max Output. Or is it more important to lose a few db in 25-120, to gain a few at 16?

[elwaylite]

Im guessing Q 0.3 or 0.5 is for me, after reading some about headroom. I have a large room 3500+ cuft, plus one side opens into a kitchen/dining area.

Looking at all that, Im guessing I need the most output as possible.

So, using EQ 2 2 ports open, in a large room and loud levels, q 0.3 or 0.5?

[Dr_Hsu]

Yes, two ports open, EQ2, Q=0.3 should be best for you. At lower levels, a higher Q setting gives you a bit more low bass compared to a lower Q setting, but makes the sub run out of steam earlier. The lower Q setting allows the sub to play louder before it runs out of steam. The lower Q setting also result in a tighter bass.

[elwaylite]

Thanks, sounds like Q 0.3 is exactly the right choice. Since I have such a large area to fill Max Output is prob my best choice as well.

[elwaylite]

Dr. Hsu, I just realized I forgot to add the 5 year amp warranty when I ordered the VTF15. Is that something I can call in and add?

I think with a 7 year driver warranty, and a 5 year amp warranty for $100, thats a heck of a deal.

[Dr_Hsu]

Just call (714)666-9260 to add it.

[elwaylite]

Thanks!

[elwaylite]

On the truck in town, be delivered Monday!!!

Dr. Hsu, do you see any break in differences in your subs? Just wondering if I should calibrate system, then maybe rerun a few weeks later. Folks often differ on the need for break in.

[Dr_Hsu]

Yes, it's a good idea to re-run a few weeks later after the woofer suspension has freed up.

[elwaylite]

Nice. I figured a couple, we watch a good 25 hours of tv every week, will be more this time of year because of football

[elwaylite]

Well, Im not sure if I can explain it, but when comparing the VTF2 and VTF15 after Audyssey runs, using the HSU CD and test tones (16hz to 63 hz), the VTF2 gave higher db results. Now, Im not sure if this is a meter thing, or what. What I can say, is the VTF15 is a beast, regardless of what my meter said. The VTF2, on a good track, could generally offer a little vibration in my cushy chair in the butt area. The VTF15 shakes the butt and the back/chest much more than Ive ever felt it. You can just tell its got more ooomph. Until I know whats up with the other numbers, I took some db results during a couple of good movies. These are at 0.0db on my Marantz, and I can tell you whatever room Im in in the house, it sounds like a roar coming from the living room. The readings are taken from my seat, about 12 feet from the VTF15, in a 3600 cuft room (one side opens to a kitchen and dining room so it's actually bigger).

These are max db's hit during a particular scene, using the CM 140:

Transformers, city battle at end - 111.0
Act of Valor, gun boat scene - 109.8
HTTYD, final battle - 109.7
Iron Man 2, final battle - 111.0
Episode 1, pod race - 110.8

Any input? I ran a ton of tests with different configs, and I settled on EQ2, 2 ports open, Q 0.5. Most db's, and 0.5 is plenty tight bass wise, and offered a little more db than 0.3.

Here are some pics:

Big ol box. Sub was double boxed and packed very well
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2492.jpg

Inner box
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2493.jpg

Dogs wondering what the heck
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2495.jpg

Sub out of the box
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2496.jpg

Amp
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2497.jpg

Sub clothed
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2498.jpg

Sub naked
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2499.jpg

[elwaylite]

Dr. Hsu, here are the number and maybe you can shed some light. Maybe it's just meter accuracy that low?

My plan was to measure the Hsu CD test tones with the VTF2, then rerun Audyssey with the VTF15 and set everything back up the same (same place, same Q, same EQ and port config), so I could see what teh VTF15 added.

What I ended up with was lower numbers on those test tones, but obviously a harder hitting subwoofer on movies Ive seen before.

hz--VTF2db--VTF15db

16--80.1--80.1
20--90.2--85.5
25--91.3--86.6
31.5--86.3--81
40--98--96.2
50--98.9--96.9
63--93.8--96.2

Any reason why I would have measured lower on the bottom of the spectrum with the VTF15, compared to the VTF2?

Is there a matter of break in with regards to max output?

[Dr_Hsu]

Did you do the measurements with each sub in exactly the same location? Or are the two subs in different locations in the room?

[elwaylite]

Yes, same placement in room, checked with CM 140 SPL meter in exact same position (my seat).

VTF2 Pic
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2491.jpg

VTF15H Pic
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...d/IMG_2499.jpg

Do you think room gain, from the downfiring sub and wall? I wasn't expecting 20db gains, but I did find it odd that the 15h was lower than the VTF2 in most measurements.

The VTF2 was setup with Audyssey, with gain around 10 oclock, Q 0.7, EQ 1 and 1 port open. After Audyssey, it was set to EQ 2 2ports open and Q 0.3.

I setup the VTF15 the same way last night, and after audyssey I always increase the level in the AVR +3.0db for the sub. The gain on the VTF15 was at 9 oclock, and Audyssey set it at -1.5db, so I increased it to +1.5db.

The only real differences I can think of are downfiring vs front firing, and I am using the red line in and right angle rca adapter on the VTF15 to save space, where I just plugged the cable into the white line in on the VTF2.

[elwaylite]

Could there be a flaw in my theory that different sub, same settings, same spot, 16-63hz test tones should be a simple way to test performance between the two.

Just wondering if there is something Im missing? For my room to hit 111db's are reference volume on a movie, the sub seems to be working well, as its not a small room.

[elwaylite]

Dr. Hsu, something was just pointed out to me. Would it simply be that the reasons the tone results dont match between the two models is because the preamp levels in the two are unlikely to match?

Im just trying to figure out why my experiment failed, and I think its due to me not understanding part of the process.

[Dr_Hsu]

Strange. Also, even if there are differences between the two subs, the whole point of Audyssey is it should compensate for any differences in the subwoofer response. What you are looking at is what Audyssey did to the combined sub + room response. Try disabling Audyssey and measure the subs without Audyssey.

Note that irrespective of the response, the 15H has a much higher headroom.

[elwaylite]

I checked both on and off, no difference really. I also find that I can hit say 108db max at the end of Iron Man 2 with Audyssey ON, then when I cut it off I can always hit 2-3db higher.

I ran this by the guy that goes my audio and video calibrations, and needless to say he doesnt have that much confidence in audyssey doing that good of a job. My experiment really consisted of relying on Audyssey to be consistent.

Regardless, just sitting here listening to tv at low volume levels, the VTF15 is a different presence in the room. It really growls sitting over there.

[elwaylite]

This is actually one of the things my guy told me, to help clear it up for me.

You would need to look at equal THD at a given Hz to see which gets more SPL at that distortion. The 12" is not going to compete unless the other is defective.

Im loving the look of the VTF15 too, just looks like I got some movie firepower LOL

[elwaylite]

Here are some comments I posted on a HT site, and I thought you guys would like them:

Wow. Wife went out for a bit, so I was sitting around watching The Matrix on Cinemax. Once the shootout in the lobby kicked off, and the music came in, I literally cut my eyes over to the sub. I was kind of wondering for a moment why the sub was quiet. Well, I’m learning not to sit here and be expecting bass, because when there is supposed to be bass it will let me know LOL.

I’ve never heard the lobby scene like that, and I’ve literally seen this movie over 30 times, I mean it was bumping, and there are some real low notes in that song. Move on to the helicopter, as it slow mo’s down over the building out of sight, all I feel is thump…..thump…..thump as the propellers spin in slow motion. Once it crashes into the building and explodes, there is a good 3-5 seconds of tremendous bass. Finally, when the train comes thru the subway before the agent shows up, more chair vibrating bass.

I swear this may cost twice as much as my VTF2, but I think it’s at least 3 times the sub. It’s what I needed in this room, the bass is deep and powerful and I love it. It’s going to take a bit to get used too that’s for sure, especially as the 15” seems to have a little different, but better sound. Powerful is the only word I can use to describe it.

[Dr_Hsu]

Cool!

[elwaylite]

Got to test war of the worlds today. Hit 109.6 db, 2 ports open EQ2 and q 0.3, in chapter 5, at 3 meters.

Woofer was moving a LOT.

[elwaylite]

Dr. Hsu, or anyone. Im looking at adding a second VTF15h and was wondering on placement. My room is very large and I could either place the 2nd to the right of the tv stand (current VTF is to left of stand), or put the rubber feet on the second and stack them. Stacking may look a little weird though since they are so bag. just looking for an idea.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Dr. Hsu, or anyone. Im looking at adding a second VTF15h and was wondering on placement. My room is very large and I could either place the 2nd to the right of the tv stand (current VTF is to left of stand), or put the rubber feet on the second and stack them. Stacking may look a little weird though since they are so bag. just looking for an idea.

Please post your room layout. If the current location is the best location after a subwoofer crawl, stacking them will be great. I think they look cool stacked!

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Please post your room layout. If the current location is the best location after a subwoofer crawl, stacking them will be great. I think they look cool stacked!

I cant get to my room image from work, but the current sub is in the best available location after the crawl. I figured with the rubber feet the upper sub would not move, and it would like quite intimidating lol.

Room is about 13x25x13.

What would be the best way to calibrate the two with Audyssey.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

I cant get to my room image from work, but the current sub is in the best available location after the crawl. I figured with the rubber feet the upper sub would not move, and it would like quite intimidating lol.

Room is about 13x25x13.

What would be the best way to calibrate the two with Audyssey.

If you stack them, you need to gain match them, and then treat the two as one sub for Audyssey. I would start out by lowering the gain by 6 dB on the sub compared to what you have it now with one sub. Then gain match the second sub to the first that you have just lowered the gain. With the subs co-located, you should have pretty close to 6 dB gain in output across most frequencies.

[elwaylite]

Awesome, thanks.

[SME]

Your previous comments give me the impression that you like listening at high levels. If so, then co-location as suggested by Dr. Hsu will probably make the biggest difference.

If, on the other hand, you typically listen at lower levels (say -10 or less for movies with heavy bass), then you might also consider your other option, to the right of the TV stand. You'll likely still get a healthy boost in the deep bass. (I'm assuming the TV is on the short wall.) In the mid/upper bass, you'd likely trade some or all of that 6 dB in return for improved response away from the main listening position and improved temporal accuracy (tighter bass).

Of course, every room is different, so I'd want to do some measurements:

1. Level match both subs.
2. Place a sub on each side of the TV stand
3. Set 1-port open, EQ1, Q=7.
4. Turn off Audyssey.
5. Adjust volume so that the test tones play at a moderate volume.
6. Measure the test tones without changing the volume:
a. with only the sub on the left turned on
b. with both subs turned on
7. Add 6 dB to the numbers you get with only the left sub turned on.

This will give you a rough idea of how your room responds, and it will show you what you compromise in output/headroom by placing the other sub on the right of the TV stand. You can also try measuring at other listening positions to see how their responses change.

Temporal accuracy is not practical to measure with an SPL meter, so you have to listen (with Audyssey calibrated separately for each configuration) and make up your mind whether you like the change in sound you get.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by SME

Your previous comments give me the impression that you like listening at high levels. If so, then co-location as suggested by Dr. Hsu will probably make the biggest difference.

If, on the other hand, you typically listen at lower levels (say -10 or less for movies with heavy bass), then you might also consider your other option, to the right of the TV stand. You'll likely still get a healthy boost in the deep bass. (I'm assuming the TV is on the short wall.) In the mid/upper bass, you'd likely trade some or all of that 6 dB in return for improved response away from the main listening position and improved temporal accuracy (tighter bass).

Of course, every room is different, so I'd want to do some measurements:

1. Level match both subs.
2. Place a sub on each side of the TV stand
3. Set 1-port open, EQ1, Q=7.
4. Turn off Audyssey.
5. Adjust volume so that the test tones play at a moderate volume.
6. Measure the test tones without changing the volume:
a. with only the sub on the left turned on
b. with both subs turned on
7. Add 6 dB to the numbers you get with only the left sub turned on.

This will give you a rough idea of how your room responds, and it will show you what you compromise in output/headroom by placing the other sub on the right of the TV stand. You can also try measuring at other listening positions to see how their responses change.

Temporal accuracy is not practical to measure with an SPL meter, so you have to listen (with Audyssey calibrated separately for each configuration) and make up your mind whether you like the change in sound you get.

Awesome, thanks.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by SME

Your previous comments give me the impression that you like listening at high levels. If so, then co-location as suggested by Dr. Hsu will probably make the biggest difference.

If, on the other hand, you typically listen at lower levels (say -10 or less for movies with heavy bass), then you might also consider your other option, to the right of the TV stand. You'll likely still get a healthy boost in the deep bass. (I'm assuming the TV is on the short wall.) In the mid/upper bass, you'd likely trade some or all of that 6 dB in return for improved response away from the main listening position and improved temporal accuracy (tighter bass).

Of course, every room is different, so I'd want to do some measurements:

1. Level match both subs.
2. Place a sub on each side of the TV stand
3. Set 1-port open, EQ1, Q=7.
4. Turn off Audyssey.
5. Adjust volume so that the test tones play at a moderate volume.
6. Measure the test tones without changing the volume:
a. with only the sub on the left turned on
b. with both subs turned on
7. Add 6 dB to the numbers you get with only the left sub turned on.

This will give you a rough idea of how your room responds, and it will show you what you compromise in output/headroom by placing the other sub on the right of the TV stand. You can also try measuring at other listening positions to see how their responses change.

Temporal accuracy is not practical to measure with an SPL meter, so you have to listen (with Audyssey calibrated separately for each configuration) and make up your mind whether you like the change in sound you get.

Great advice!

[techjunky2]

Just took delivery of my second VTF-15h in (Rosenut). Had to chuckle to myself when the FedEX guy said he'd help me get it in the house "because its a real beast". In a (not trying to be cocky way) I replied, "ya, I know, Ive already got one. Unpackaging this monster is pure bliss. Such a goregous finish this Rosenut is. I will post picks when I get it situated in its new home. Im going to be asking a few question about settings and such when I get it wired in. Oh what a great day to take the afternoon off and wait for the delivery. Our first day over 50 degrees this spring in Wisconsin. Feels wonderful.

[Dr_Hsu]

Cool! Glad you love the Rosenut finish. Enjoy!

[techjunky2]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Cool! Glad you love the Rosenut finish. Enjoy!

Well as you can see by the picture, I have just added a second VTF-15h to my system. I set my second sub to the same settings as my first sub. I am going to list my components and the settings that I have come up with after using Audyssey Auto setup on my Denon AVR.

First off, I have both subs set up as follows: Volume at 10 o'clock on the dial, phase at 180, Q level is at 0.3, crossover (out) at 90, EQ2 with one port plugged.

Now here is a list of relevant components:

AVR: Denon 4308 ci
Front and rear speakers are all Polk RTI A9 towers.
Center channel is a Polk Csi A6
The settings for all speakers connected in this 5.2 surround arrangement after running the Audyssey auto setup are as follows: Subwoofer mode is set to LFE, Crossover is set to 60hz for fronts, center, and rears. Subwoofer crossover is 100hz. Speakers were set to large by Audyssey but I changed them all to small. Sub level was set to -0.5db after setup.

If anyone has an suggestions for me to try alternative settings, it would be appreciated. I dont have any flexibility on speaker placement other than what you see in the picture. My room is 12' wide by 17' long. I have an 8 foot opening to the left side of my TV that leads into a large kitchen. Pretty sure that opening is messing with my soundstage. I welcome any tips for maximizing performance with what I have to work with. Thanks!

[Dr_Hsu]

That sounds like an extremely high level on the subs! Typically, particularly if you have two 15Hs, the gain setting on the subs should not need to be more than 8 o'clock, or perhaps 8:30. What did the receiver set the sub out level at? You said you set it to -0.5 dB, not what the receiver set it to.

[techjunky2]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

That sounds like an extremely high level on the subs! Typically, particularly if you have two 15Hs, the gain setting on the subs should not need to be more than 8 o'clock, or perhaps 8:30. What did the receiver set the sub out level at? You said you set it to -0.5 dB, not what the receiver set it to.

Took your advice Dr. Hsu......reduced gain on back of subs to around 8, 8:30 on the dial. I then ran audyssey again and my receiver set output for sub at +1.5....everything sounds as it should. Thanks

[Jim Pittsburgh]

I've been lurking for quite a while now, and have found this forum very useful, Thank you all. Having had my 15H since early last summer, I've expermented, by ear only, with about every placement and every combination of setting possible.

My listening habits are mostly music, mostly vinyl, HD Fios TV and BluRays / movies.

Without having to tweak the system for the different sources, I've settled upon 1 port stuffed, EQ1 and Q6.

Bass is just awesome via both turntable and BluRays etc.... drums, bass guitar and even stand up bass is about as perfect as is possible ... and explosions etc have never stressed the 15H....but have completely rattled the room (SIPS construction is just great for bass) its a great compliment to the system. My main speakers are KEF 900s which have excellent bass response down to about 30hz themselves, and the KEF 600 center channel goes down to about 40hz... between the 15H and the KEFs I do not lack for bass.... even with that much room volume.

FYI room is very live; 18 x 20 with a 15 ft cathedral ceiling. Glass windows on 3 sides and a 9ft opening into the great room (with cathedral ceiling) on the other... floor is cork laminate which does help a little..

[Kevin_Hsu]

Hi Jim,

Nice setup! We're happy to hear that you are enjoying your VTF-15H.

[Awoken4Life]

My situation would best be solved by a wireless subwoofer but I'm wondering what the specs are for the wireless subwoofer kit included in the ULS15. Using this unit am I going to experience any noticeable delay in the signal? What is the frequency this works at? Am I going to lose any of the sub 20hz freqs for home theater application? I have seen where people have complained that in music there is a delay that throws the song off (they were not complaining about your unit, but another one). Will that be an issue? Does the receiver auto setup hear the time lag and apply a delay to make up for it? How reliable is the signal transfer?

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by Awoken4Life

My situation would best be solved by a wireless subwoofer but I'm wondering what the specs are for the wireless subwoofer kit included in the ULS15. Using this unit am I going to experience any noticeable delay in the signal? What is the frequency this works at? Am I going to lose any of the sub 20hz freqs for home theater application? I have seen where people have complained that in music there is a delay that throws the song off (they were not complaining about your unit, but another one). Will that be an issue? Does the receiver auto setup hear the time lag and apply a delay to make up for it? How reliable is the signal transfer?

How large is your room? Is this primarily for HT? If it's primarily for HT, I would suggest going for the 15H together with say an aftermarket wireless solution like the Subcast. Any delay in the wireless should be taken care of by the receiver's auto setup.

[Rowan611]

Hey all; first post here. Wanted to say I really enjoyed this thread.

I'm back in the market for a sub; to make a long story short, I bought a Epik Empire over two years ago. However, I ended up sending it back. It had nothing to do with performance, but more to do with a decision that my wife and I made that the money was better spent on things for our soon to be born son.

Before that my SA3 died, so my SVS is useless. I've got the SA3 into an electronics shop, but I don't know if they'll be able to fix it or if the cost will be more than the value of the amp.

Either way...the 12" in the SVS isn't enough in my HT - which is basically my basement. I'll get some measurements later. So, in a few months, I will be adding a VTF-15H. I've read so much about this sub, I just know it will give me what I'm looking for. Impact!

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by Rowan611

Hey all; first post here. Wanted to say I really enjoyed this thread.

I'm back in the market for a sub; to make a long story short, I bought a Epik Empire over two years ago. However, I ended up sending it back. It had nothing to do with performance, but more to do with a decision that my wife and I made that the money was better spent on things for our soon to be born son.

Before that my SA3 died, so my SVS is useless. I've got the SA3 into an electronics shop, but I don't know if they'll be able to fix it or if the cost will be more than the value of the amp.

Either way...the 12" in the SVS isn't enough in my HT - which is basically my basement. I'll get some measurements later. So, in a few months, I will be adding a VTF-15H. I've read so much about this sub, I just know it will give me what I'm looking for. Impact!

Do post your room details and we can give you placement recommendations.

[Rowan611]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Do post your room details and we can give you placement recommendations.

I will happily do so.

[Rowan611]

My room is 4576 cubic ft. It's basically a square; W22' x D26' x H8'.

If you look at my room from the bottom of the stairs, my HT is in the back half. There is a big open area to the left of the stairs and a small hallway to the right. There are three doors along the right wall, these lead into the unfinished section(s) of our basement. One is a regular door, the other is a double door.

My TV is on the left side of the back part of the room; I have a love seat and a chair. Behind them, are my surrounds and in the back right corner is where my SVS is currently. I did a sub crawl and found that this location provides the best bass at the listening position.

Please let me know if there is anything else you need to know.

Also, I have to admit, I've added another sub possibility into the equation. Thinking about either the SVS PC12 plus or PB12 plus. Honestly, the PC would be great as it would go very well with my 20-39CS plus. Luckily, I've got a few months to keep reading and researching.

Thanks!

[elwaylite]

After teetering and tottering, I finally ordered VTF15H #2! This will be my 3rd Hsu sub (Had a VTF2MK4 that I sold to a friend; he is getting ready to buy a VTF15 as well lol) and Ive been real happy with the product.

[elwaylite]

#2 in action!

[hjones4841]

With the depth of the VTF-15H cabinets, what disadvantages are there, if any, for placing it sideways along the room's wall? Will that cause irregular frequency response? Thanks.

[Dr_Hsu]

Not an issue. Many customers use it that way. We frequently recommend placing it sideways behind the listening position, woofer lined up directly behind the listener.

[hjones4841]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Not an issue. Many customers use it that way. We frequently recommend placing it sideways behind the listening position, woofer lined up directly behind the listener.

Thanks. I have two that are turned sideways behind the recliners, but want to move them to the wall and have the fronts of the enclosures pointed at the seats.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by hjones4841

Thanks. I have two that are turned sideways behind the recliners, but want to move them to the wall and have the fronts of the enclosures pointed at the seats.

Do post a drawing of what you meant. Not sure which wall in your room you are referring to.

[hjones4841]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Do post a drawing of what you meant. Not sure which wall in your room you are referring to.

Thanks, but I have REW and a calibrated mic so I think that will give me good information. I was interested in whether or not having the VTF-15H cones close to the side walls of the room would make much difference.

The subwoofer system is rather complex; I started out with Quad ULS15s about 6 months before the VTF-15Hs were introduced. I was always interested in the performance of the VTF-15Hs so when Hsu ran them on clearance, I ordered two to put on the front wall, between the two pairs of ULS15s. Then in a moment of insanity :-) I bought two more VTF-15Hs at the clearance price to put behind the HT seats. I already had a pair of MBMs back there and was interested in the added visceral feel that the large 15s would add. Rest of the system is Klipsch Heritage and all this is in a 12x20 room with lots of bass trapping. So, I suppose I could say that I used the brute force method of pressurizing the room.

I have Audyssey Pro in a Denon 4520. That AVR has two separately EQ'ed and time-aligned sub channels; one feeds the subs on the front wall, the other feeds the combo of the MBMs and the other two VTF-15Hs behind the seats. Performance, of course, is fantastic, but over the weekend my wife and I purchased new seating that may require moving the behind-the-seat VTF-15Hs over to the side wall instead of behind the seats. I still can leave the MBMs behind the seats, tho.

With all the acoustic horsepower of dual VTF-15Hs behind the seats, I wonder if the MBMs are doing much for me. I have those VTF-15Hs set with the crossover engaged at 60Hz, handing over to the MBMs there. BTW, since the ULS-15s are sealed, I left the four VTF-15Hs sealed, as are the MBMs.

Anyway, that is the story with the subs. Getting the right locations for everything is really not a problem - they are at the only places where they will fit! :-)

Thanks for a great product line. I have two more ULS-15s in the house - one in a great room and one in the master bedroom. And a VTF-1 Mk.2 in my home office.

[SME]

Wow, you have 4 VTF-15Hs, 2 MBMs, and 2 ULS-15s in your room? I thought I had a lot of sub at 1 VTF3-MK4, 1 VTF-15H, and 2 MBMs! Do you like to listen loud? If you feel technically inclined enough, you may want to consider some additional hardware like a MiniDSP to integrate those subs, especially if your listening room is not very symmetric.

[Dr_Hsu]

Originally Posted by hjones4841

Thanks, but I have REW and a calibrated mic so I think that will give me good information. I was interested in whether or not having the VTF-15H cones close to the side walls of the room would make much difference.

The subwoofer system is rather complex; I started out with Quad ULS15s about 6 months before the VTF-15Hs were introduced. I was always interested in the performance of the VTF-15Hs so when Hsu ran them on clearance, I ordered two to put on the front wall, between the two pairs of ULS15s. Then in a moment of insanity :-) I bought two more VTF-15Hs at the clearance price to put behind the HT seats. I already had a pair of MBMs back there and was interested in the added visceral feel that the large 15s would add. Rest of the system is Klipsch Heritage and all this is in a 12x20 room with lots of bass trapping. So, I suppose I could say that I used the brute force method of pressurizing the room.

I have Audyssey Pro in a Denon 4520. That AVR has two separately EQ'ed and time-aligned sub channels; one feeds the subs on the front wall, the other feeds the combo of the MBMs and the other two VTF-15Hs behind the seats. Performance, of course, is fantastic, but over the weekend my wife and I purchased new seating that may require moving the behind-the-seat VTF-15Hs over to the side wall instead of behind the seats. I still can leave the MBMs behind the seats, tho.

With all the acoustic horsepower of dual VTF-15Hs behind the seats, I wonder if the MBMs are doing much for me. I have those VTF-15Hs set with the crossover engaged at 60Hz, handing over to the MBMs there. BTW, since the ULS-15s are sealed, I left the four VTF-15Hs sealed, as are the MBMs.

Anyway, that is the story with the subs. Getting the right locations for everything is really not a problem - they are at the only places where they will fit! :-)

Thanks for a great product line. I have two more ULS-15s in the house - one in a great room and one in the master bedroom. And a VTF-1 Mk.2 in my home office.

Wow, thank you so much for being such a big fan of our products! No, close proximity to the side walls is not an issue.

[hjones4841]

Originally Posted by SME

Wow, you have 4 VTF-15Hs, 2 MBMs, and 2 ULS-15s in your room? I thought I had a lot of sub at 1 VTF3-MK4, 1 VTF-15H, and 2 MBMs! Do you like to listen loud? If you feel technically inclined enough, you may want to consider some additional hardware like a MiniDSP to integrate those subs, especially if your listening room is not very symmetric.

Actually, there are 4 ULS15s in the room . The main reason for the multiple subs is, yes, sheer output to match the other speakers in the room. I mentioned Klipsch Heritage - there are 4 Klipschorns (main L/R plus surround back L/R), one Belle (for center channel), and 6 Heresy IIIs (surround L/R plus Audyssey DSX wide L/R and height L/R). So the system is 11.2 channels. Each of the 11 channels is driven by 200WRMS Emotiva amps. The headroom in the system is simply amazing. Pick any volume I want...

Most of the time, wife is in the room so the system is played around 75-80 db or so. But, action movie time for me and I open the system up.

The MiniDSP is a good idea - I will have to check it out. One problem is that when you measure and get each sub just right, when other subs in the room are turned on, they impact the one you just set up. That is the reason I just let Audyssey Pro set up everything based on two independent sub channels. I figure with all the subs around the room the overall average will offset room modes from the other subs in the room.

[hjones4841]

Originally Posted by Dr_Hsu

Wow, thank you so much for being such a big fan of our products! No, close proximity to the side walls is not an issue.

And thank you for making outstanding products at truly value prices.

I had tried other subs in the upstairs rooms before replacing them with ULS-15s. In the great room, I went thru several Parts Express subs but kept having amp failures. After 3 amp failures, plus the cost of the sub driver and box, I figured I had spent as much as a ULS-15, so after the last amp failure I placed the order. In the master bedroom I tried a Klipsch sub that was on clearance at Newegg. It was OK, but was more boom than tightness - not much definition. So I replaced it with a ULS-15. Similar thing in the home office - I tried an inexpensive Klipsch sub that was on clearance. Lots of boom, no definition in bass notes. So, a VTF-1 was put in its place. I am semi-retired and work from home, so the office system is used quite a bit. As you can tell, I am a big Klipsch fan, but not of their subwoofers.