TN1220HO II Anticipation Thread

[dmass]

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=27188

As mentioned in the above thread, the former glory era of HSU cylinder subs may be returning!

I own a pair of the original TN1220HO tubes and may be a candidate for the "replacement killers"

1. Will the new TN's be passive?
2. Will they use the same bass optimizer?
3. Will there be an upgrade price or upgrade path to go from the old TN's?
4. How will the new TN's perform compared to the original TN's?

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi dmass,

The new TN1220HO would be similar in performance to the original, albeit using the latest and greatest driver (ie. something similar to that used on the VTF-3 MK3). The cylinder subwoofer will still be passive, and will still use the same bass optimizer (for those using non-Hsu Research amplifiers). The best upgrade path for existing TN owners would be to add more TN's once they are available (hopefully by end of the year).

Sincerely,

[dmass]

thank you for the update. Although since I already have 2 tubes....I am not sure I can fit any more tubes in my room. Maybe I will consider just updating the 12" driver to the latest and greatest. What is the approximate cost of the driver?

[Pete_Hsu]

Hi dmass,

A 12" replacement driver is $175 + shipping.

Sincerely,

[paul87buick]

How much are the new 1220s going to cost.and can I by one today

[Pete_Hsu]

The unpowered cylinder subwoofer should be no more than ~ $499 + S/H, although price is yet to be determined. Availability will not be until next year though.

Sincerely,

[shadyJ]

Will the old amplifier/bass optimizer/high end crossover still be useful for the new cylinders? Will there be some new amplifiers? If the drivers change, won't there be commensurate changes in the electronics? Are prices expected to remain the same for the electronic components? Sorry for all the questions, just curious!

[Pete_Hsu]

Yes, the 500w external amp, high end electronic crossover, and bass optimizer will all work great with the upcoming TN1220HO. No plans to use a new amplifier. The driver will be similar to what is being used on the VTF-3 MK3. The enclosure will still be about 51" tall including feet, 12" in diameter, with a long 4" down-firing port, an upward-firing 12" driver, and a thin black cloth wrapped around the cylindrical enclosure. Essentially very similar to the old TN1220HO, albeit with our latest 12" driver and latest 4" port tube/flare. We also hope to offer some type of outrigger type feet to help make the enclosure more stable (although customers can still use the old style tall and thin spiked feet if they wish). The 500w external amp works great with this TN and can drive up to two TN series subwoofers in parallel. I suspect that the price of the 500w external amp will remain the same, but we will have nice package pricing when bundled with one or two TN1220HO enclosures.

Sincerely,

[shadyJ]

Excellent! Thanks for the answers, I am looking forward to its re-release!

[Pete_Hsu]

You are most welcome shadyJ!

[JerryMeeker]

I speak as a former owner of two TN1220HO's, which I replaced with a ULS-15 dual-drive. I think the concept of a passive subwoofer is no longer valid. There is a wealth of information regarding how to optimize the low frequency response in listening rooms. If you have two (or more) subs, then it is critical that the signals from the multiple subs arrive at the listener's ears at the same time. This can be accomplished in two ways: either the subs have to be carefully placed so that they are equidistant from the listener, or some sort of time-correction equalization needs to be applied (e.g. the Audyssey sub equalizer). Since equidistant placement is generally problematic in most listening rooms, equalization is becoming the most common solution. Herein lies the problem: you can't apply sub room correction technologies for dual passive subs sitting behind a single amplifier. So, if you purchase new passive subs, you are dooming yourself to sub-standard bass response.

There are a number of powered subwoofer solutions in the Hsu product lineup that represent much better solutions for optimizing room response, using the Audyssey sub equalizer, or using one of the new AVR's that are just now coming out, with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (which applies distance correction for two subs).

Would I want my TN1220HO's back? Never! Just my thoughts....

[dmass]

Originally Posted by JerryMeeker

I speak as a former owner of two TN1220HO's, which I replaced with a ULS-15 dual-drive. I think the concept of a passive subwoofer is no longer valid. There is a wealth of information regarding how to optimize the low frequency response in listening rooms. If you have two (or more) subs, then it is critical that the signals from the multiple subs arrive at the listener's ears at the same time. This can be accomplished in two ways: either the subs have to be carefully placed so that they are equidistant from the listener, or some sort of time-correction equalization needs to be applied (e.g. the Audyssey sub equalizer). Since equidistant placement is generally problematic in most listening rooms, equalization is becoming the most common solution. Herein lies the problem: you can't apply sub room correction technologies for dual passive subs sitting behind a single amplifier. So, if you purchase new passive subs, you are dooming yourself to sub-standard bass response.

There are a number of powered subwoofer solutions in the Hsu product lineup that represent much better solutions for optimizing room response, using the Audyssey sub equalizer, or using one of the new AVR's that are just now coming out, with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (which applies distance correction for two subs).

Would I want my TN1220HO's back? Never! Just my thoughts....

With my Parasound HCA1000 2 channel amp and 2 channel BFD DSP1124 PEQ I have no trouble setting separate volume levels and separate EQ filter settings for my two TN1220HO's.

[Springs]

$750 for the amp. And $500 for the Tube Sub. Thats $1250.

Does that mean that it is superior to the VTF15 and ULS15?

I have 2 TN1220HOs from the old days. They have been in storage. Looking forward to getting them back online.

I had been driving them with a Cinepro 3k6seGold. If I get new Speakers... 425 watts into HB-1 would probably be way too much. My NHT 2.9s are long gone... (tears rolling down)

[Springs]

Any input on my $ question??? Just curious.

[dmass]

Power amps are available on ebay all the time. Unlike receivers that need to decode all of the latest digital bitstream formats, older poweramps are just as good as newer ones. Used power amps are great deals to drive a set of TN1220's.

I got my HCA 1000a on ebay for $200 (including shipping).

My BFD EQ box was about $100.

[Springs]

I got the TN1220s back and set them up. One of them is damaged. It makes a buzzing noise and there is a lot of air coming from between the driver and tube. So bummed.

Maybe its a sign that I need to upgrade???

[dmass]

I just purchased a new amp to upgrade my bass. I am using one of the new Crown XLS 1000 class D amps. You can read about my review here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1295375

One question I have for HSU users here, as you will see in the above link I had to use the HSU Bass Optimizer box with the gain turned upto near the +14db maximum to feed the pro amp inputs which were expecting +4dBU levels. Does the HSU Bass Optimizer add much noise or distortion when used at it's maximum +14dB gain setting? What are the specs?

[shadyJ]

Originally Posted by Springs

I got the TN1220s back and set them up. One of them is damaged. It makes a buzzing noise and there is a lot of air coming from between the driver and tube. So bummed.

Maybe its a sign that I need to upgrade???

You should talk to Hsu tech support and try to get it fixed, it might be a simple problem.

[Rob Babcock]

I have two TN-1220's that have been used daily for more than a decade, and I'll tell you passive subs are alive and well! I will, ever buy another powered sub for my main system if I can possibly help it. To this day I've still never heard bass as good as I'm getting with my pair of TNs, hi powered stereo amp and parametric EQ.

Now I don't want to crush anyone's hopes but these guys have been claiming the passive sonotube was coming back soon every since they were first discontinued. I haven't been to the forum for quite awhile but I check in periodically to see if there's any news. At least once per year everyone gets worked up about the new tubes being "just around the corner" or "later this year." Well, check my profile and how long I've been here- it never happens.

Oh, well. At least I have mine. That's the beauty of the passive sub, you'll probably bury me with them! No caps, no electronics, nothing to fail. If someday a woofer buys the farm I'll simply buy a new driver from HSU. If by some chance they will no longer sell me one, I'll find the closest thing T/S-wise that will fit. Lemme see your powered ones do that.

[Rob Babcock]

To see how long I've on this merry-go-round, read 'em and weep!

[dmass]

We can still dream can't we? Or are you saying that santa and the easter bunny are not real as well?

[Rob Babcock]

Hey, who knows! Maybe this time they really will bring 'em back. If I can't believe at X-mas time, when can I believe?

[lpddpd]

Yes, I too check the sight to see if it will ever return. I love my sub/amp combo, but will we really see an update?

[dmass]

Bump for news?

[Ryan_Hsu]

Hi Dmass,

We hope to introduce the new TN1220HO before Christmas time.

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us.

Regards,
Ryan

[dmass]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Hsu

Hi Dmass,

We hope to introduce the new TN1220HO before Christmas time.

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us.

Regards,
Ryan

Any spec changes to what Pete Hsu posted earlier in this thread?

[BigWood]

Christmas is almost here................any word?

[sisu1a]

Well in all fairness, Pete only said Christmas. There was no mention of year!

I was going to make a suggestion to Team Hsu in regards to getting the TN's moving, which I never followed up on. This being a TN resurrection thread, I may as well just put it here...

My idea was to offer them as a kit, with everything included except the quickcrete/sonotube and the port tube. If one is starting with premade parts, they are quite easy to build following simple instructions. An online tutorial would make it easier. Every Home depot/Lowes/etc has the big bulky tubes... and so long as you bring the MDF rings with you, selecting the right diameter 12" tube is pretty easy (the nominal sizes have slightly different diameters to allow them to telescope into one another for compact shipping/storage). The ABS pipe for the port can be cut to length in-store if need be, by an employee.

Besides the long tubes, everything else fits inside a box not much larger than a driver fits in by itself, and the stuffing/damping material can even be used as a packing material for padding. With the MDF rings already cut and pilot drilled, assembly would be pretty straight forward, with gluing being the only major step. Once the rings are glued in, it's just some screws, staples, and some stuffing...

Kit contents:

driver/hardware
MDF rings for top/bottom (bottom cut for port/ speaker cup, pilot drilled for feet, top ring pilot drilled for driver)
feet/hardware
speaker cup/hardware/wire (w/factory crimped spades/lugs)
stuffing
sock
directions

Construction as I see it:

1) drill the feet pilot holes up to size, pop in the T-nuts
2) glue the MDF rings in.
3). wire/install speaker cup
4? assemble/install port
5) install stuffing (may need to be done before port/speaker cup install, if gluing it to walls
6) sock installation (may be part of base ring installation, depending on how bottom of sock is fastened)
7) install driver
8) screw on feet
9) champagne!

Now picture the user gallery of TN's and think of the interest it would generate. The TN1220 already inspired an army of DIY'ers, so it would really be kind of fitting... This approach would also hardly dent your factory floorspace, minimizing impact on current production. If priced right, I suspect this would be very popular, and you would sell a lot of kits. People that like building them and are good at it can take on builds for other folk, potentially creating niche cottage industry that would steadily generate new crop of Hsu fans.

-Paul

[shadyJ]

I could see that, sisu1a, except if I went for that I would want a kit where all you have to do was assembly. It's a cool idea though, but I expect Hsu wouldn't be for it, because the costs in customer service time would be too much. I'm sure that's a very serious factor with a small ID company like Hsu, they probably only have a few guys who can deal with customers, and customers who bought kits would probably take up much more time than those who bought complete subs, on average.

As for the TN1220HO II, it looks like an idea that the guys at Hsu bat around every once in awhile simply due to the efficiency of the design, but when they take a more sober look at it, they realize it just won't sell terribly well. Hsu already knows what the market for cylinder subs is like, and there is a reason why they don't make 'em anymore. Personally, I think a cylinder design that might well would be something that isn't too tall, like maybe a down-firing 15" or 18" design, and put a glass top on it like the Outlaw subs have, and you could use that for a endtable type sub. These taller, narrower ones just don't stand a chance of passing the WAF, but I think a shorter, wider one that looks table-esque might be able to.

[Pete_Hsu]

Very interesting idea Paul, thank you for the feedback! Our preference would be to be to offer a fully built enclosure. Sadly, I have no idea when the TN cylinder will be reintroduced. At the moment I get the feeling from Dr. Hsu that it will not be anytime soon. He wants to be able to offer it by end of next year, but based on past history this doesn't mean too much. When the TN cylinder is literally back in production, then I know something concrete about release date. So sorry for stringing people along.

Sincerely,